The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[Danzilla31]

Because I read that review, so I know it has much higher IMD than many other amps reviewed, and I never like their looks.

Some people would label harsh sound as transistor sound, I think that makes no sense but that's their choice of words they are entitled to...

Ok thanks and that's a perfect description of why I like the crowns over the Emotivas. What a perfect word to describe what I was feeling. Harsh. I never got that feeling with the crowns accurate detailed smooth highs and voices sound just right great with music dynamic tight sound but never harsh. But I do feel that way with the Emotivas. Not huge but it's there. Thanks for the feedback

 

[RichB]

Because I read that review, so I know it has much higher IMD than many other amps reviewed, and I never like their looks.

Some people would label harsh sound as transistor sound, I think that makes no sense but that's their choice of words they are entitled to...

Transistor sound is the opposite of tube sound

- Rich

 

[Danzilla31]

that's why I asked what class of amp are they, perhaps if it's something other than A/B then crosstalk or some other artifact creating the 'transistor sound' ??

I think it's a class H design? Part of the power starts as AB then it switches to something else as it needs more power. Others more knowledgeable could describe what type of amp they are better.

 

[snakeeyes]

Ok thanks and that's a perfect description of why I like the crowns over the Emotivas. What a perfect word to describe what I was feeling. Harsh. I never got that feeling with the crowns accurate detailed smooth highs and voices sound just right great with music dynamic tight sound but never harsh. But I do feel that way with the Emotivas. Not huge but it's there. Thanks for the feedback

The crowns were cheaper than the emotiva but performed better?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I know the AVR-X3400H and X4400H has the typical high end(McIntish) tube sound, does that answer your question?

McIntosh? That means you prefer the Denon X3400/4400 over Emotiva.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The crowns were cheaper than the emotiva but performed better?

Maybe. Crown has that "Harman International" sound.

EMO only has that transistor sound. Haha.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You guys are driving me crazy here What the heck is transistor sound? I'm beginning to think this is a made up word Lol

I've heard of audio transformers causing hum noise. But I've never heard of "transistor sound" until today.

 

[Danzilla31]

The crowns were cheaper than the emotiva but performed better?

Maybe. Crown has that "Harman International" sound.

EMO only has that transistor sound. Haha.

I don't know if they perform better without measurements to go along with my personal observations that would be a dangerous assumption to make.

But I felt and still do since I've switched back and forth that I like the sound of the crowns better. It's not an instantaneous switch and it's not blind so keep in mind memory delay and perception bias could be an issue.

But I can tell you this 100% They sound just as good. And that's stating something right there because I thought those class D pro amps would suck compared to the Emotiva.
They didn't not at all. Just goes to show you how far class D has come. And you get way more power from them then you ever will on the Emotiva. For cheaper that's not bad at all AT ALL

So because they sound good enough and I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on higher up amps that are heavy and you gotta keep cool for probably marginal gains. I want the power sound quality they give for such light weight no heating issues EVER. And plenty of headroom. I plan on going to all crowns next year. I'll play around with my Emotivas for awhile they still sound good. But I do plan on flipping them next year. Saving money on the crowns.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't know if they perform better without measurements to go along with my personal observations that would be a dangerous assumption to make.

But I felt and still do since I've switched back and forth that I like the sound of the crowns better. It's not an instantaneous switch and it's not blind so keep in mind memory delay and perception bias could be an issue.

But I can tell you this 100% They sound just as good. And that's stating something right there because I thought those class D pro amps would suck compared to the Emotiva.
They didn't not at all. Just goes to show you how far class D has come. And you get way more power from them then you ever will on the Emotiva. For cheaper that's not bad at all AT ALL

So because they sound good enough and I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on higher up amps that are heavy and you gotta keep cool for probably marginal gains. I want the power sound quality they give for such light weight no heating issues EVER. And plenty of headroom. I plan on going to all crowns next year. I'll play around with my Emotivas for awhile they still sound good. But I do plan on flipping them next year. Saving money on the crowns.

If the Harman Crown amps are good enough for the Harman engineers who work with Revel Salon and JBL Synthesis speakers, I think the Crown amps are good enough for most people.

 

[Danzilla31]

If the Harman Crown amps are good enough for the Harman engineers who work with Revel Salon and JBL Synthesis speakers, I think the Crown amps are good enough for most people.

Amen to that brother amen

 

[PENG]

what class of amp(topology) are they ?

As far as I know, the Gen 3s are class AB with Class H type power supply.

 

[Mikado463]

If the Harman Crown amps are good enough for the Harman engineers who work with Revel Salon and JBL Synthesis speakers, I think the Crown amps are good enough for most people.

do you really think they voice the Salon and Studio II speakers with their Crown amps ?? I suspect Levinson .......

 

[Mikado463]

As far as I know, the Gen 3s are class AB with Class H type power supply.

So, perhaps that is cause for 'transistor sound' ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

do you really think they voice the Salon and Studio II speakers with their Crown amps ?? I suspect Levinson .......

I doubt Harman would "VOICE" any of their speakers.

Their goal is to achieve a smooth neutral response, not "voice" their speakers to certain sound signatures.

 

[PENG]

that's why I asked what class of amp are they, perhaps if it's something other than A/B then crosstalk or some other artifact creating the 'transistor sound' ??

But all the amps we talked about here could be referred to as tube, transistors, or hybrids regardless of class.

You can have a class AB push pull tube amp with significant crossover distortions, and a pure single ended class A transistor amp with very low distortions of any kind side by side. In a sighted test, those people may still say the transistor amp has the transistor sound and the tube amp has the tube sound but I bet in a DBT they will likely say the opposite.

 

[Mikado463]

I doubt Harman would "VOICE" any of their speakers.

Really ?? while I suspect they perform multiples of listening evaluations with many different amps (and amp types) I suspect their Mark Levinson brand is preferred over Crown.

 

[Mikado463]

But all the amps we talked about here could be referred to as tube, transistors, or hybrids regardless of class.

yes and with that being said the possibility(probability) of audible differences does exist with them for sure.

You can have a class B push pull tube amp with abundant crossover distortions, and a pure single ended class A transister amp with very low distortions of any kind side by side. In a sighted test, those people may still say the transistor amp has the transistor sound and the tube amp has the tube sound but I bet in a DBT they will likely say the opposite.

I know of no one that uses a Class B amp in a home audio environment, PA systems perhaps.

 

[PENG]

I know of no one that uses a Class B amp in a home audio environment, PA systems perhaps.

Agreed, it was just for argument sake. Now that you mentioned this, I edited it from class B to class AB and it should still work as I originally intended it to, perhaps to a lesser degree.

 

[Mikado463]

Agreed, it was just for argument sake.

Roger that .......

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Really ?? while I suspect they perform multiples of listening evaluations with many different amps (and amp types) I suspect their Mark Levinson brand is preferred over Crown.

I'm sure they prefer to sell you their ML amps that cost $20K.

But the flagship JBL Everest speaker system costs a lot more than the Revel Salon2, and the JBL system uses Crown amps rebadged as JBL, not Mark Levinson amps.