"Caravan"... What To Do?

highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
How is that any different from you adding a baby to the country?

I dont define people by race or geography, I just see humans. Humans who are looking to better their lives while other humans are telling them to goto hell. I find it sad.
I don't either- I look at people as:

Did they do anything bad to me or others? If not, no problem.

However, I also think fewer people should have kids if they can't support them and some who can support them shouldn't have kids because they won't be good parents. Looking to improve life is fine, but unless they have some kind of useful skills, they WILL be some kind of burden on others, whether they want to, or not. I also won't assume that everyone in the caravan are good, wonder people with good intentions- that would just be naiive. I also won't assume they're all bad but as was the practice in the past, they need to be checked out.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
.... What I see is places like China and India taking over the worlds economy because they have cheaper labor available. We have cheaper labor wanting to come here but we turn them away. ....
But, would they be a cheap labor pool if admitted and become part of the labor pool?
Probably not but they would fill jobs the rest do not want perhaps. Farm labor for one.
And, of course one could argue for special wages for them but will that pass muster in court?

Not a simple solution to cheap labor here.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
If the leaders of the countries where these people originate would pull their heads out of their butts, they would help their own countries.
But when we try to help these countries on a governmental scale, we're accused of interference and bullying.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
But when we try to help these countries on a governmental scale, we're accused of interference and bullying.
We help almost EVERY country in some way, whether it's directly sending money or buying their products. When some kind of tragedy occurs, we're usually first to help but when Central American countries have corrupt governments, it's time to take a stand against this. However, most of these countries are part of the supply or delivery chain for drugs, so......

Mexico has come out and said people in the Caravan can't just stay there. Why can't the US be allowed to enforce our own policies?
 
M

Midwesthonky

Audioholic General
If the leaders of the countries where these people originate would pull their heads out of their butts, they would help their own countries.
Why would they pull their heads out of their butts? They are corrupt, making good money and have power. Why would they give a crap? I
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Why would they pull their heads out of their butts? They are corrupt, making good money and have power. Why would they give a crap? I
Exactly! I don't want to replace them, I want to be them.

Seeking position as Ruler. Have references. :D
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
Can we discuss this without politics
Nope.

The "caravan" is inherently political, seeing that it's being employed as a GOTV effort for Trump's base.

To those who live outside the closed epistemic bubble of current Trump tribal orthodoxy, this caravan thing is a big ol' nothing-burger.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
From what I can see, they are welcome to apply for asylum in Mexico. And, I don't believe there is anything stopping the U.S. from enforcing its own policies.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/27/mexico-offers-temporary-permits-to-caravan-migrants-seeking-asylum
Not stopping the US, aside from the opinion of many people who want to let everyone in, right? WI has a gubernatorial candidate who wants to give illegals the right to vote and the privilege to drive before they're actually US citizens. OTOH, he also wants to dump almost two billion dollar into the school systems when it has been proved that, at least in MKE, the school system is failing and its budget is already over $1.2Billion. The rest of the state tends to do better- I want to see his reasoning.

Mexico has offered and many have turned it down, saying they're going to the US. That's not asylum, that's just BS.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
the right to vote and the privilege to drive
No. 1 ain't gonna happen and No. 2 is already how it works here, or at least in the past you didn't need any immigration doc's to get a dl.

But RI is crazy. They think nobody's looking cause they're usually not.

My illegal alien friend got 2 dui's in as many weeks. The second one was for rear ending a parked cop car. He had a dl.
 
H

Hobbit

Senior Audioholic
You can't build the greatest country on the planet next door to the 3rd world and NOT expect people to come. What to do about it? I dont know. What I see is places like China and India taking over the worlds economy because they have cheaper labor available. We have cheaper labor wanting to come here but we turn them away. Seems practical to me to vet these people, let the good ones come in, help us build stuff and get competitive again. The argument that they cost peoples jobs is misguided. They would cost jobs no more than you having another baby does. Each additional person requires things that create more jobs, a house, a car, gas, food, trips to Disney land, etc.

But my opinion is only shared by half the country so this conversation will go south really quick.
I went to China about every 8 mo for about a 12 year period. The change was phenomenal. The first trips road work was done by men in drabby clothes, straw hats, and really bad footwear. The work was very manual. By my last trips it was work uniforms, steel toed shoes, hard hats, and caterpillars doing the work. Around 2000 average wages were about 10K cny, and now it's around 75k cny. Wages have gone exponential since around 2000.

I think people don't realize as their economy grows, people become more affluent, and then they start the finer things in life too. They're becoming more environmentally conscious, rivers are becoming cleaner, and Starbucks are on every corner. The factory I visited won a UN green plant award. A lot of the staff there were US educated (lot's of advanced degrees),worked as senior managers/directors in high tech US firms, and repatriated. Often they're parents and other family is aging and they want to get back to them. Times are such they can now.

IOW, places like China are catching up to our living standards. Sure, they're still behind us. For how long? It does begs the question, who's the next emerging country to take over with cheap labor? Or, the cost to make things anywhere else may cost the same as to make it here in the future. Ergo, it may make economical sense to build new factories here at some point.

One last comment, from the stats I've seen on immigrants, the amount of "bad" people is about the same to less than people who've been here for at least a generation. Historically, post WWII there was a lot of anti-imigration. They were going to take you job and do heinous crimes. The news (and politicians) will always find you a poster child for any cause, for whichever side you're on, and base their argument solely on them. The classic false syllogism.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I went to China about every 8 mo for about a 12 year period. The change was phenomenal. The first trips road work was done by men in drabby clothes, straw hats, and really bad footwear. The work was very manual. By my last trips it was work uniforms, steel toed shoes, hard hats, and caterpillars doing the work. Around 2000 average wages were about 10K cny, and now it's around 75k cny. Wages have gone exponential since around 2000.

I think people don't realize as their economy grows, people become more affluent, and then they start the finer things in life too. They're becoming more environmentally conscious, rivers are becoming cleaner, and Starbucks are on every corner. The factory I visited won a UN green plant award. A lot of the staff there were US educated (lot's of advanced degrees),worked as senior managers/directors in high tech US firms, and repatriated. Often they're parents and other family is aging and they want to get back to them. Times are such they can now.

IOW, places like China are catching up to our living standards. Sure, they're still behind us. For how long? It does begs the question, who's the next emerging country to take over with cheap labor? Or, the cost to make things anywhere else may cost the same as to make it here in the future. Ergo, it may make economical sense to build new factories here at some point.

One last comment, from the stats I've seen on immigrants, the amount of "bad" people is about the same to less than people who've been here for at least a generation. Historically, post WWII there was a lot of anti-imigration. They were going to take you job and do heinous crimes. The news (and politicians) will always find you a poster child for any cause, for whichever side you're on, and base their argument solely on them. The classic false syllogism.
Reminds me of a trip I made to Vietnam in '93. Saw some guys changing a truck tire with no jack, just a bunch of guys with a great big lever. Bet it's not like that now that we've lifted the anti-commie curse (of column 2 tariffs, China's got lifted well before we forgave Vietnam).
 
M

Midwesthonky

Audioholic General
Not stopping the US, aside from the opinion of many people who want to let everyone in, right? WI has a gubernatorial candidate who wants to give illegals the right to vote and the privilege to drive before they're actually US citizens. OTOH, he also wants to dump almost two billion dollar into the school systems when it has been proved that, at least in MKE, the school system is failing and its budget is already over $1.2Billion. The rest of the state tends to do better- I want to see his reasoning.
What?!?! You don't think tossing more money at the Milwaukee Public School system will address the chronic problems they have? Surely that will fix the problem with many schools having yearly student turnover greater than 50%? Surely more school money will fix the issue of gang violence in the worst neightborhoods while the city council builds a new streetcar system instead of hiring police? But surely more money into the Milwaukee School system will mean other people besides the Superintendent and cronies will get raises, maybe their assistants will get raises (teachers get didn't squat and we know it)?

And the Milwaukee city council wonders why so many legal residents are using the GTFO mentality and moving out of the county (GTFO = Get The F@#$ Out). I can't afford to live in Milwaukee County. Taxes are crazy ass high. Drug crime moving south into the nicer burbs. Roads are absolute sh!t. Police expenses going up in the burbs while Milwaukee has reducing cops but they are building a street car system for millions that is already being sued by several people due to accidents and it isn't even taking passengers yet.
 
D

Drunkpenguin

Audioholic Chief
Illegals are in Wisconsin? Hmm. I never would have guessed that. Maybe I'm right and theyre just passing thru on the way to Canada for the healthcare and weed.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Illegals are in Wisconsin? Hmm. I never would have guessed that. Maybe I'm right and theyre just passing thru on the way to Canada for the healthcare and weed.
No, they're apparently walking up to Minnesota to squat in lake homes. Better check with TLSguy
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
No, they're apparently walking up to Minnesota to squat in lake homes. Better check with TLSguy
I’ll ask him for ya. They sure as f ain’t squatting in my lake home. His is actually a couple hours north of me.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Nope.

The "caravan" is inherently political, seeing that it's being employed as a GOTV effort for Trump's base.
Thanks for that. I was wondering how the left would spin this against the right. And that's part of our problem. We can't talk about a problem or situation without assigning political motivation. So tell me, how should the US handle thousands of people traveling en masse to our border with the express intent of entering our country illegally? Do you have an idea/solution, or just criticism?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
What?!?! You don't think tossing more money at the Milwaukee Public School system will address the chronic problems they have? Surely that will fix the problem with many schools having yearly student turnover greater than 50%? Surely more school money will fix the issue of gang violence in the worst neightborhoods while the city council builds a new streetcar system instead of hiring police? But surely more money into the Milwaukee School system will mean other people besides the Superintendent and cronies will get raises, maybe their assistants will get raises (teachers get didn't squat and we know it)?

And the Milwaukee city council wonders why so many legal residents are using the GTFO mentality and moving out of the county (GTFO = Get The F@#$ Out). I can't afford to live in Milwaukee County. Taxes are crazy ass high. Drug crime moving south into the nicer burbs. Roads are absolute sh!t. Police expenses going up in the burbs while Milwaukee has reducing cops but they are building a street car system for millions that is already being sued by several people due to accidents and it isn't even taking passengers yet.
I know well what GTFO means and I'm working on it, myself. I'm in Glendale and I pay over five grand in property tax on a house that's nothing special. If possible, I would like to see Glendale and the other suburbs gated, so people from MKE would have to get permission to enter.

I did some work at the apartments on Farwell, just South of Ogden, before they started laying the track- they put the track sections IN THE ROAD, in the left Southbound lane. I guess that was their way of making people get used to something being in the way. I'm convinced Barrett wants everyone to stop driving their own car and actually believes they could do everything they need to by riding on public transit. The thing I don't understand is show they're thumbing their nose at the County transit system. It's a stupid plan and I don't want any part of it.

I really wish I had bought outside of MKE county.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Illegals are in Wisconsin? Hmm. I never would have guessed that. Maybe I'm right and theyre just passing thru on the way to Canada for the healthcare and weed.
WI was a Welfare haven before the system was revamped and people from all over came here because they could rake in the $$$$ by pounding out more kids. Illegals are here and have been, for a long time. They cause lots of problems, too.
 
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