Cloth vs Metal for grills?

[ryanosaur]

Might have missed another thread, but wanted to check in on this for some advice, please.

Soon to have new speakers. Can order fabric grills with them...
But our 4 very cute feral born adoptees, random children, and other foolish humans... Lets just say I have trust issues!

Acoustone Speaker Fabric?
Other Speaker Fabric?
Metal Grill with 5/32" round holes and 62.4% open area?

Please discuss. Pros and cons, diffraction, etc.

Many thanks to all!

R

 

[TLS Guy]

Might have missed another thread, but wanted to check in on this for some advice, please.

Soon to have new speakers. Can order fabric grills with them...
But our 4 very cute feral born adoptees, random children, and other foolish humans... Lets just say I have trust issues!

Acoustone Speaker Fabric?
Other Speaker Fabric?
Metal Grill with 5/32" round holes and 62.4% open area?

Please discuss. Pros and cons, diffraction, etc.

Many thanks to all!

R

Metal grills are not good as they tend to resonate and ring. They are OK over ports, but not over speakers.

 

[ryanosaur]

Is this a vibration/resonance issue over higher frequencies only, or the whole speaker? / Would isolating a metal grill over the woofers only on a large tower, still result in that issue?

Do subs do this as well? (I think SVS is doing metal grills on some of their subs?)

Beyond that, what are the recommended choices for speaker grill cloth? Is Acoustone well liked/respected? Other product more favorable?

 

[MR.MAGOO]

Cloth vs. Metal for grills: For speakers cloth is the way to go, for a barbecue grill of course metal; cloth will catch fire. (sorry fellow AH, I couldn't resist)

 

[shadyJ]

Metal will offer the best protection, obviously. It doesn't have to ring if it has a secure fit onto the speaker.
Regarding diffraction, metal mesh will certainly have some diffraction, but it shouldn't be ruinous to the sound. The frame of fabric speakers will also increase diffraction. How much diffraction depends on how protruding and obtrusive the frame is. If it is a big thick frame, it will definitely contribute some significant diffraction.

 

[TLS Guy]

Is this a vibration/resonance issue over higher frequencies only, or the whole speaker? / Would isolating a metal grill over the woofers only on a large tower, still result in that issue?

Do subs do this as well? (I think SVS is doing metal grills on some of their subs?)

Beyond that, what are the recommended choices for speaker grill cloth? Is Acoustone well liked/respected? Other product more favorable?

Using a robust metal grill over a woofer is acceptable. For mid and higher frequencies then the wire being that close to the speaker does act in a resonant mode, and will color the sound.

 

[highfigh]

Metal grills are not good as they tend to resonate and ring. They are OK over ports, but not over speakers.

Ever measure the response with metal grills? It's not good for dispersion.

 

[shadyJ]

Ever measure the response with metal grills? It's not good for dispersion.

I have measured metal grilles. The ones I measured weren't affecting dispersion all that much.

 

[ryanosaur]

Thank you all for advice so far...
Magoo: I'm a professional chef these days. Thanks for the BBQ lesson. Got it. No cloth in the Weber.
Shady and TLS: I get where you are coming from for certain!

If I go this route:
Am I correct in assuming that the more open air, and less flexible the metal, the better? (Though maybe not ideal for subs and woofers it should be OK, but perhaps a less than great solution for the mids and highs.) And that the more isolated the mesh is from the cabinet (by use of good tight rubber fittings) the less likely there will be a resonance from the grill.

I came across some other perforated product that could get me up to as much as 75-77% open space while preventing even a pencil from poking through.

And as I'm still learning this stuff... how do you measure dispersion, please?

So that still leaves me to inquire about the fabrics. No one has chimed in with any advice on good acoustic performance here.
Likewise, I've seen this DIY plastic frame, but it looks Chunky A.F. Anybody no of something better?

Thank you, again... Greatly appreciate you guys!
R

 

[shadyJ]

Yes, the more open the mesh or perforation pattern, the less diffraction will occur. The tighter the fit that the grille has, the less vibration it will have.

Regarding measuring dispersion, you just take frequency response sweeps at different angle on the speaker's axis. So take a measurement in direct axis, than another at 10 degrees, another at 20, another at 30, and so on.

As far as fabric go, just use fabrics that are made for grilles. They will be acoustically transparent. Obviously you can't use just any fabric over a grille covering.

Yeah, that DIY plastic frame would be a source of increased diffraction. However, we might be overstating the harm that diffraction actually does on the sound. Its easy to see in a response measurement but difficult to actually hear, unless it is severe. I wouldn't worry about it to much. It's much better to protect the drivers if they are vulnerable even if it increases diffraction effects.

 

[ryanosaur]

I can't believe we don't have a rock-horns emoji here with our Smilies!

(Too Much? *giggles)

Thank you, Shady. I appreciate your helping find/understand the possible solutions. Everything is a trade off in life. At least speaker grills are removable if I really mean to sit down for a proper sound bath! Besides, the critters wouldn't come anywhere near Shostakovich in full tilt. (Though they do seem fond of PJ Harvey, Nick Cave and Tom Waits... who knew?)

If anyone else has some further input or experiences to share, I'd love to hear.

Cheers!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

 

[snakeeyes]

I can't believe we don't have a rock-horns emoji here with our Smilies!

(Too Much? *giggles)

Thank you, Shady. I appreciate your helping find/understand the possible solutions. Everything is a trade off in life. At least speaker grills are removable if I really mean to sit down for a proper sound bath! Besides, the critters wouldn't come anywhere near Shostakovich in full tilt. (Though they do seem fond of PJ Harvey, Nick Cave and Tom Waits... who knew?)

If anyone else has some further input or experiences to share, I'd love to hear.

Cheers!

I found water in a spray bottle teaches cats and dogs quickly not to scratch my speakers. . Might work on people too.

 

[ryanosaur]

I found water in a spray bottle teaches cats and dogs quickly not to scratch my speakers. . Might work on people too.

Acid works on people, too. Both kinds. (Sorry, that's the chef in me... the sh!t that comes outta my mouth sometimes!)

Funny, that, the spray bottle. We had a cat that would scratch something, we'd spray at her, she'd take it, lick it off, and do it again!

An ounce of prevention is worth way more than missing the cat and accidentally spraying the AVR! ...with an ounce of water. (Not acid... i've never seen a ounce of acid in my life. at one time. the fun kind that is. and i would never spray it on the cat. that would be a waste.) (am I over-sharing?)

Cheers!

 

[davidscott]

no grill - usually best sound
cloth - some protection good sound I use this method
metal - best protection possible but sound could be degraded
but the spray idea is very intriguing
Dave
BTW I don't have a cat or dog.

 

[Roman81]

I have Canton CT1000 speakers with metal grills and can't tell the difference with or without

 

[Good4it]

My SVS PB2000 sub came with a metal Reformatted grill and I think they know what is best.

 

[shadyJ]

My SVS PB2000 sub came with a metal Reformatted grill and I think they know what is best.

Grilles do not impact the sound on subwoofers (unless the grille are loose so that they rattle). All they need to do on a sub is have a snug fit. Grilles can interfere with the sound on a regular loudspeaker if they are not designed well. Grilles can cause diffraction, but at frequencies well above subwoofer bands.

 

[ryanosaur]

After talking to the guy that might do some speaker work for me, he whole-heatedly agrees that for subwoofers, and even woofers on a 3-way tower, metal grills are inconsequential. He understood my concern as stated above and said he wouldn't recommend them for the mid-high freqs.

If I go this route, I would have him install mounts on the centers of the perforated sheets I am able to acquire: either 1/4" or 1/2" hex on 9/32" or 9/16" staggered-center pattern respectively, which is 79% open area. This is the best I could find. I would likely make two grilles for top and bottom halves of the speakers so that I could protect the upper half when not in use or for entertaining... And thankfully my cats aren't that big! Oh, and the Subs too!.

 

[ryanosaur]

What the?!

Just as I'm coming to terms with this... What am I supposed to think now?!

The new Outlaws have, what?, metal grills?! What!!!?!

Since I don't know what to think anymore. Or if I should even bother. ...thinking that is.

I have to ask: What kind of mesh (round or hex... photos weren't clear)? Can we approximate open area? And why does it work here? And if it can work here, why not elsewhere?

Please and thank you!