Presence versus Front Surrounds in a Front 5.1 system-Yamaha AVR

[downbythepylons]

Hello all Newbie here with my first post. I use a Yamaha 683 AVR which the manual describes two versions of a 5.1 all front speaker set up.

One option uses the rear surrounds as front surrounds and the other uses 2 presence speakers at front height. What is the difference here?

Also if i wanted to use the rear surrounds in the front as opposed to the presence, is there any suggestion as to set up.
For example, between the c and mains? outside the mains? elevated above the mains?

thanks in advance for any assistance....

 

[downbythepylons]

Mods- just realized this may be better suited for the yamaha thread...please lmk and i can move or feel free to move. Thanks

 

[TechHDS]

Welcome to AH!

Mike

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Yamaha’s front “Presence” speakers have traditionally been for their DSP soundfield effects for both music and movies that replicate the acoustic of actual performance spaces. They are not “front surround” speakers because they are extraneous to Dolby Digital 5.1 processing.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[downbythepylons]

Wayne. Thanks for the reply and info. So this sort of begs my original post. Why would one choose front presence over an all 5.1 front surround set up?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Wayne. Thanks for the reply and info. So this sort of begs my original post. Why would one choose front presence over an all 5.1 front surround set up?

They wouldn’t! Lol
The only reason I can see this making sense is, with Wayne’s post in mind, is for a music-centric system which isn’t going for a traditional surround deployment. I wouldn’t ever consider this personally but space constraints can effect these choices too.
Most of the time, front presence is used with a surround system to add ambient effects which are extracted from the front L/R channels. This adds a vertical dimension but is as stated for “presence”.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Most of the time, front presence is used with a surround system to add ambient effects which are extracted from the front L/R channels.

Yamaha’s system doesn’t work like that. The signal to the front presence speakers is a discrete signal mimicking the reflections, decay times, etc. that would be present in the acoustic space.

Yamaha actually went out and measured the acoustic parameters of a number of real performance venues, which are then duplicated via digital processing. In a 5.1 system the processed effects signal is rolled into the back speaker signal, as well as the main L/R speakers if no front presence speakers are used. If the presence speakers are used, they get a totally discrete signal. This is preferable, IMO because it keeps the main L/R/ “clean” without any processing.

I’m not familiar with how it works with 7.1 or more systems.).

Wayne. Thanks for the reply and info. So this sort of begs my original post. Why would one choose front presence over an all 5.1 front surround set up?

As I said in my first post:

They are not “front surround” speakers.

They are only for Yamaha’s DSP soundfield effects that model acoustic spaces.

They work in addition to, and on top of, 5.1 and 2-channel stereo.

As far as “why” to use the front speakers: They do a better job of replicating the soundfield effects than having the effects signal rolled into the front speakers. If that doesn’t interest you, then no reason to use them.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Wayne, thanks for straightening me out. I had forgotten about that.

 

[snakeeyes]

I think the OP is talking about a 5.1 mode that Yamaha has in the setup of recent models where you put the surround speakers in the front of the room instead of the back.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think the OP is talking about a 5.1 mode that Yamaha has in the setup of recent models where you put the surround speakers in the front of the room instead of the back.

That’s what first thought when I read the OP, but it seemed like a really stupid thing. Is that a thing?

I’ve always found Yamahas sound mode stuff weird. And to me, useless.

 

[snakeeyes]

That’s what first thought when I read the OP, but it seemed like a really stupid thing. Is that a thing?

I’ve always found Yamahas sound mode stuff weird. And to me, useless.

I like Yamahas a lot but this idea is pretty strange putting the surround speakers in the front.

 

[lovinthehd]

There is a caveat in the manual on page 18 for putting surrounds up front "for those who can't put surrounds in the rear" which is kinda weird I'd think in use. There's also other suggested configurations, including using a 5.1 plus front presence as both 5.1.2 and 7.1.....

 

[downbythepylons]

thanks all for the replies. To clarify I was asking about the two front only set ups found in the Yamaha manual and mentioned by lovin’ above. Never heard of such a thing which is why I asked. Also because I have a spare pair of monitors and can’t do any rears in my set up.

As a follow up. I played around last night putting the front surround pair in the only location available, which is two feet higher and a touch wider than the mains. Honestly. Could not tell the difference in my narrow room despite watching a few different things.....maybe it would work better outside the mains....

I did not try them as front presence speakers to augment my 3:1 set up.