Need more Bass? Use "Extra Bass" feature in your AV Receiver.

[admin]

Need more bass in your system? Do you have tower speakers that can play fullrange without distress?

If you answered Yes and Yes, then you should considering setting the main speakers to "large" and enabling the subwoofer for 2CH sources.

Yamaha refers to it as "Extra Bass", Onkyo "Double Bass", Denon "LFE+Main", and so on.

Do you run your towers full range with an active sub? Discuss and Read our AV Extra Bass Tip

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I like extra bass (LFE+Main) a lot.

I have dual Funk 18.0 (passive) subs.

I think the bass from my Salon2 improves the overall bass (LFE + Main) significantly.

I am still playing around w/ Audyssey Flat + Dynamic EQ, which has improved the bass substantially. But the added bass from the Salon2 is really nice.

 

[3db]

I run my towers full range and disengage YPAO on my receiver (RXV-1800) and run pure Direct. The problem with my pure direct is that it eliminates all DSP. I would need to rerun the YPAO setting and skip the EQ set up (pg 40 of the manual) and save it to a memory configuration and load it everytime I want to use this. I will not be running pure direct any more but a close copy of it. I'm assuming MAIN+LFE gets turned off as soon as I hit the Pure Direct button.

It will give me something to play with on a slow day.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Though I don't have an AVR, this article describes essentially what I ended up doing. I run my main speakers full-range, and then I use the sub to augment the lowest three octaves. My strategy differs from the article in that I'm not looking for more bass per se, but to a) create more bass sources, which smooths bass response, and b) use the sub to provide specific fill-in at those frequencies where room modes cause suck-outs in the seating point frequency response. This strategy presumes you have an in-room measurement tool and a DSP in the sub. The sub becomes a frequency band-specific fill-in for the mains, while the added bass source makes room modes less onerous, which can be tuned by adjusting placement of the sub. Much to my surprise I found this strategy worked better than using a high-pass filter on the mains and trying to optimize the placement of single sub. Assuming your tower speakers can pull it off, the value of one or more additional bass sources shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[gene]

Though I don't have an AVR, this article describes essentially what I ended up doing. I run my main speakers full-range, and then I use the sub to augment the lowest three octaves. My strategy differs from the article in that I'm not looking for more bass per se, but to a) create more bass sources, which smooths bass response, and b) use the sub to provide specific fill-in at those frequencies where room modes cause suck-outs in the seating point frequency response. This strategy presumes you have an in-room measurement tool and a DSP in the sub. The sub becomes a frequency band-specific fill-in for the mains, while the added bass source makes room modes less onerous, which can be tuned by adjusting placement of the sub. Much to my surprise I found this strategy worked better than using a high-pass filter on the mains and trying to optimize the placement of single sub. Assuming your tower speakers can pull it off, the value of one or more additional bass sources shouldn't be underestimated.

Great post! That is exactly what I am doing in my theater room. I run the Status 8Ts fullrange with no DSP or bass management. My processor is set to "no sub" so all of the summed bass + LFE goes to the front speakers. I then use the L/R preamp outs to connect to my Velodyne DD-15+ subs. I EQ and bass manage the subs with their built in software and use tehm primarily to smooth out and fill nulls in the listening area below 60Hz. It's a challenging setup process but it works great for pure 2CH audio and home theater alike.

I don't recommend 99% of installs to be like I have mine above but my speakers are a special circumstance in this case.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The question is, would people benefit more by putting more budget towards more subwoofers by getting monitors, instead of towers?

For example, say a person has a $3K budget. He could get 2 towers + 1 sub for $3K or 2 monitors (same line as towers) + 3 subs (same subs). Which would be more beneficial?

 

[GranteedEV]

my Crown XLS-2000 has a programmable HPF. So I can actually do this without putting the towers at risk below their vent tuning.

 

[Mark of Cenla]

I am doing just that, using the "extra bass" feature on my Yamaha AVR. The fronts of my towers have a Goldwood 8" full range speaker, which can handle most of the bass on its own. Peace and goodwill.

 

[klepsydra]

I'm running extra bass with my Monitor Audio Silver 10s, with HSU 15" sub woofer. It really improves the in room response.

I'm not a fan of the editorial note on this article. THX is a baseline standard. A system with the crossover set at 60 or 40 Hz still meets the THX certification if the speaker play flat down that low. A system set at 100 Hz doesn't it is really quite simple.

I've seen too may home theater where they spent $10k plus, with speakers on each channel capable down to 30 Hz. Yet they set their crossover to 80 Hz because they incorrectly think that is what THX calls for. Congratulations, you just wasted a bunch of money and made your system perform as well as many $600 HTIB systems....

Sorry for the rant, little pet peeve.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm running extra bass with my Monitor Audio Silver 10s, with HSU 15" sub woofer. It really improves the in room response.

I'm not a fan of the editorial note on this article. THX is a baseline standard. A system with the crossover set at 60 or 40 Hz still meets the THX certification if the speaker play flat down that low. A system set at 100 Hz doesn't it is really quite simple.

I've seen too may home theater where they spent $10k plus, with speakers on each channel capable down to 30 Hz. Yet they set their crossover to 80 Hz because they incorrectly think that is what THX calls for. Congratulations, you just wasted a bunch of money and made your system perform as well as many $600 HTIB systems....

Sorry for the rant, little pet peeve.

Sounds like a pet peeve but without much merit IMHO. Nothing wrong with a high cross, especially with speakers really not capable of what you need them to do vs your subs....maybe the MAs do it for you. Wouldn't for me. Only one sub wouldn't work for me either. Extra bass mode definitely isn't something I use. YMMV.

 

[Dan Madden]

Great post! That is exactly what I am doing in my theater room. I run the Status 8Ts fullrange with no DSP or bass management. My processor is set to "no sub" so all of the summed bass + LFE goes to the front speakers. I then use the L/R preamp outs to connect to my Velodyne DD-15+ subs. I EQ and bass manage the subs with their built in software and use tehm primarily to smooth out and fill nulls in the listening area below 60Hz. It's a challenging setup process but it works great for pure 2CH audio and home theater alike.

I don't recommend 99% of installs to be like I have mine above but my speakers are a special circumstance in this case.

Fascinating Gene !!

 

[Mark of Cenla]

I am doing just that, using the "extra bass" feature on my Yamaha AVR. The fronts of my towers have a Goldwood 8" full range speaker, which can handle most of the bass on its own. Peace and goodwill.

I quit using extra bass because it caused problem with very bass-heavy scenes in movies. The subs and the main speakers seemed to be reinforcing each other, and the bass sounded odd. So when the subs are turned on, the main speakers are now set on "small." Peace and goodwill.

 

[remppainen]

I have Canton GLE 496 towers as main stereo speakers, and 10" subwoofer. Canton's are equipped with
Woofer 2 x 200 mm (8''),and has Frequency response rating of 20...30.000 Hz.

Would you recommend i use the "double bass" feature in my Pioneer VSX-933 A/V receiver? I have tried different settings, and felt that with 50Hz crossover is better than 80Hz, the 80Hz sounds too boomy..

I'm currently on the edge between Front speakers as large and crossover to 50Hz +double bass, and with front speakers as small and 50Hz crossover withouth the double bass.
My receiver should have enough power to output the double bass, since it has 135 W/ch (6 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 1.0 %, 1ch Driven). Also the Cantons sensitivity is "SPL (1 watt/1m) 90.5 dB".

What would you suggest as the best option? Thanks in advance!

 

[sterling shoote]

I manage bass like I manage sweeting my tea, to taste. You seem to be experimenting with taste right now too. To get a really good feel for what is most pleasing I'd suggest you download some tunes rich in bass from what ever streaming service you subscribe to and while listening make adjustment in bass volume to suite yourself. In my system, I have mains set as small for crossover at 60 Hz. The sub volume is adjusted to deliver the same sound pressure as my mains; however, this does not deliver any bass when music is played at low volume. Levo (club edit) Toolroom Miami 2015 Recondite is an excellent dance genre tune for making bass adjustments. It sweeps way down there.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have Canton GLE 496 towers as main stereo speakers, and 10" subwoofer. Canton's are equipped with
Woofer 2 x 200 mm (8''),and has Frequency response rating of 20...30.000 Hz.

Would you recommend i use the "double bass" feature in my Pioneer VSX-933 A/V receiver? I have tried different settings, and felt that with 50Hz crossover is better than 80Hz, the 80Hz sounds too boomy..

I'm currently on the edge between Front speakers as large and crossover to 50Hz +double bass, and with front speakers as small and 50Hz crossover withouth the double bass.
My receiver should have enough power to output the double bass, since it has 135 W/ch (6 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 1.0 %, 1ch Driven). Also the Cantons sensitivity is "SPL (1 watt/1m) 90.5 dB".

What would you suggest as the best option? Thanks in advance!

Personally, no. I would recommend against it. Every time I’ve tried xtra/double bass it just turns the low end into a mess. I would suspect part of the boominess is from the 10”sub. What model is it?

 

[snakeeyes]

If you believe Canton really gets to 20hz, you are drinking the kool aid. Their website says my 6in bookshelf Vento 820.2 gets to 30hz but that is BS. You need a good sub to pair with your towers. What are the dimensions of the space?

 

[everettT]

If you believe Canton really gets to 20hz, you are drinking the kool aid. Their website says my 6in bookshelf Vento 820.2 gets to 30hz but that is BS. You need a good sub to pair with your towers. What are the dimensions of the space?

That's probably the f10 they list.

 

[ski2xblack]

I run my largest speakers full range and augmented with subs, specifically for modal smoothing (rather than copious bass). Office and boob tube rigs employ smaller speakers that have neither the extension nor dynamic range to pull that off, so they get high passed.

 

[TechHDS]

I’m set to , large speakers for Towers, XO Sub set at 90Hz. I tried Sub set at 60Hz than 40Hz, found that 90Hz was a much better overall setting my Towers can get pretty low. Oh Extra Bass set to on, No DSP or YPAO used.

Mike

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've used double-bass in the past. That was like 5 years ago.

Always funny to read old threads from 5 years ago.

I would not use double-bass now even if I had $30K speakers that could go down to 20Hz @ -3dB.

The reason is because I don't want double-bass to send any 15Hz signals to my expensive speakers. That's what Subwoofers are for.

Big towers are made for the extra Dynamics that bookshelf speakers lack - being able to play at reference levels before crackling and distorting.

But for big-bass, I would let the big subs do that, not your expensive speakers.