Receiver and speakers upgrade

[KEW]

Lots of bad specs in marketing.

I won't argue with you there, but among the larger speaker manufacturers, DefTech is the most consistently extreme with their exaggerations.
Companies like Paradigm give FR that includes room gain to have a deeper bottom end than anechoic, but they do point out in the fine print "in a typical room" or some such wording.

I decided to look up an array bookshelf speakers with ~5.25" (unless specified other size) drivers to see what speakers companies did for specifications:
Philharmonic Mini (5.0")..65 Hz - 20kHz +/- 2db Sealed, 55 Hz - 20 kHz Ported
Klipsch RP-150m..............48-25kHz +/- 3dB
Yamaha NS-333 (5.0")......65 Hz - 35 kHz (no dB range given)
KEF ls-50...........................79Hz - 28kHz +/- 3dB
Focal Chorus (5.5")...........65Hz - 28kHz +/- 3dB
Boston Acoustics A25......55Hz – 25kHz +/- 3dB
Canton Plus GXL.3 (5.0")..45-26.000 Hz (no dB range given)
BIC DV52siW.....................70hz-20khz (no dB range given)
Polk T15............................60Hz-24kHz (no dB range given)
QA 3020 (5.0")...................64Hz-22kHz +/- 3dB
ELAC Debut B5..................46 to 20,000 Hz (no dB range given)
Sony SSCS-5......................53～50,000Hz (no dB range given)

Compare all of the above to:
DefTech SM 65.................30 Hz → 30 Hz (no dB range given)

So I believe you are correct that DefTech is not the only company to give false spec's; however, they do, IMHO, deserve special mention as a true leader in false specifications anytime the topic comes up.
Canton, Klipsch, and Elac are a distant 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (not in any specific order)!

 

[KEW]

I am not a fan of Paradigm speakers because I don't like their looks that much, though I do own an Anthem power amplifier. Having said that, I always thought they make quality stuff. Even their old monitor series looked to be of decent quality. Something just doesn't sound right in this case for their "crafted in Canada" Premier series to be that bad. They are not far from me, may be I should ask them for a factory tour.

All of my exposure to Paradigm speakers was about 9-10 years ago, but they were all impressively good for build and quality!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Def tech speakers seem to be generally well received/liked, so I suspect they sound pretty good.
I just wanted to chime in and emphasize that Def Tech is ridiculously cavalier with their specifications!

I think B&W also exaggerates. They say the 800D3 is 15Hz-28kHz +/-3dB with the dual 10” Woofers.

DefTech and GoldenEar also exaggerate as many of us know.

I used to own two of the biggest DefTech speakers (one with built-in powered 14” Woofer, another with 10” woofer).

Of course, the overall sound isn’t anything special. But I believe what separates speakers like this in general is the active bass control.
Oops Gotta go. On airplane.

 

[PENG]

All of my exposure to Paradigm speakers was about 9-10 years ago, but they were all impressively good for build and quality!

Agreed, even they were making them (some of them) in China.

 

[PENG]

I won't argue with you there, but among the larger speaker manufacturers, DefTech is the most consistently extreme with their exaggerations.
Companies like Paradigm give FR that includes room gain to have a deeper bottom end than anechoic, but they do point out in the fine print "in a typical room" or some such wording.

I decided to look up an array bookshelf speakers with ~5.25" (unless specified other size) drivers to see what speakers companies did for specifications:
Philharmonic Mini (5.0")..65 Hz - 20kHz +/- 2db Sealed, 55 Hz - 20 kHz Ported
Klipsch RP-150m..............48-25kHz +/- 3dB
Yamaha NS-333 (5.0")......65 Hz - 35 kHz (no dB range given)
KEF ls-50...........................79Hz - 28kHz +/- 3dB
Focal Chorus (5.5")...........65Hz - 28kHz +/- 3dB
Boston Acoustics A25......55Hz – 25kHz +/- 3dB
Canton Plus GXL.3 (5.0")..45-26.000 Hz (no dB range given)
BIC DV52siW.....................70hz-20khz (no dB range given)
Polk T15............................60Hz-24kHz (no dB range given)
QA 3020 (5.0")...................64Hz-22kHz +/- 3dB
ELAC Debut B5..................46 to 20,000 Hz (no dB range given)
Sony SSCS-5......................53～50,000Hz (no dB range given)

Compare all of the above to:
DefTech SM 65.................30 Hz → 30 Hz (no dB range given)

So I believe you are correct that DefTech is not the only company to give false spec's; however, they do, IMHO, deserve special mention as a true leader in false specifications anytime the topic comes up.
Canton, Klipsch, and Elac are a distant 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (not in any specific order)!

On the other end of the spectrum, I the European companies usually provide more details on their websites. Just take a look of the spec sheets of models from Harbeth, Monitor Audio, KEF, B&W, Tannoy, Dali, Focal, Sonus faber etc. How many North America make speaker even provide the maximum spl, or minimum impedance figures?

 

[snakeeyes]

I won't argue with you there, but among the larger speaker manufacturers, DefTech is the most consistently extreme with their exaggerations.
Companies like Paradigm give FR that includes room gain to have a deeper bottom end than anechoic, but they do point out in the fine print "in a typical room" or some such wording.

I decided to look up an array bookshelf speakers with ~5.25" (unless specified other size) drivers to see what speakers companies did for specifications:
Philharmonic Mini (5.0")..65 Hz - 20kHz +/- 2db Sealed, 55 Hz - 20 kHz Ported
Klipsch RP-150m..............48-25kHz +/- 3dB
Yamaha NS-333 (5.0")......65 Hz - 35 kHz (no dB range given)
KEF ls-50...........................79Hz - 28kHz +/- 3dB
Focal Chorus (5.5")...........65Hz - 28kHz +/- 3dB
Boston Acoustics A25......55Hz – 25kHz +/- 3dB
Canton Plus GXL.3 (5.0")..45-26.000 Hz (no dB range given)
BIC DV52siW.....................70hz-20khz (no dB range given)
Polk T15............................60Hz-24kHz (no dB range given)
QA 3020 (5.0")...................64Hz-22kHz +/- 3dB
ELAC Debut B5..................46 to 20,000 Hz (no dB range given)
Sony SSCS-5......................53～50,000Hz (no dB range given)

Compare all of the above to:
DefTech SM 65.................30 Hz → 30 Hz (no dB range given)

So I believe you are correct that DefTech is not the only company to give false spec's; however, they do, IMHO, deserve special mention as a true leader in false specifications anytime the topic comes up.
Canton, Klipsch, and Elac are a distant 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (not in any specific order)!

I would have expected at least a recommended crossover setting in their manual that would indicate the true limits but maybe we are to just assume it can handle 80hz crossover so “not worth mentioning”... LOL The DT bipole surrounds have crossover recommendations at least.
I’m not a fan of any stretching of the truth, but I wouldn’t eliminate the possibility of purchasing based on marketing lies.

 

[KenM10759]

I noticed KEF doing something different the past couple years. It seems they're modifying what they publish for specs, but not in the usual way.

When the 2017 Q series came out to upgrade the 2011 version, a few people (myself included) noticed that the new Q150 and Q350 specs showed they didn't go as low as the previous version, despite centering the Uni-Q driver and moving the port to the rear of the cabinet.

Q100 = 40hz - 40khz +/-3dB
Q150 = 51hz - 28khz +/-3dB
Q300 = 42hz - 40khz +/-3dB
Q350 = 63hz - 28khz +/-3dB

They also added a spec for each, the "Frequency Response, Free Range +/-6dB" and used 47hz for Q150 and 42hz for Q350, so the big one goes deeper in free range but not in quasi-anechoic chamber measurements?

Weird that the smaller speaker went lower than the larger one now, I couldn't get a clear answer from KEF. The technician I spoke with simply said "we measure them more accurately now." Other independent tests have shown the new numbers are close to reality, and actually conservative. My conclusion is that with the internet today more people look at reviews and KEF is now in a mode of 'under-promise but over-deliver' because an LS50 certainly can dig a LOT deeper than 79hz.

Strange. I don't know how this helps sell speakers to spec-sheet shoppers, but it looks good when others test them.

 

[snakeeyes]

I’ll more than likely go with B&W. Quality seems there. Sound is definitely there. Or i may stick with Polk and do the LSIM line.

Which B&W speakers were you looking at? 700 series?

 

[Ken32]

Which B&W speakers were you looking at? 700 series?

Paradigm wanted to give me 15% off. I laughed and denied. The owner of Barney Miller (Barney) hooked me up on a deal for my troubles. I looked at the 683s2 and the 700 series. Other than cabinet, they sounded too similar to justify price difference. Not to mention he hooked me up with the 683s2 for 559.00 each. Pretty nice price off sticker! Definitely can’t beat that deal.

 

[snakeeyes]

Congrats!

 

[Ken32]

Congrats!

Thanks! Can’t wait for them to come in.

 

[Verdinut]

Paradigm wanted to give me 15% off. I laughed and denied. The owner of Barney Miller (Barney) hooked me up on a deal for my troubles. I looked at the 683s2 and the 700 series. Other than cabinet, they sounded too similar to justify price difference. Not to mention he hooked me up with the 683s2 for 559.00 each. Pretty nice price off sticker! Definitely can’t beat that deal.

Maybe Paradigm is having problems with the union? If that is the case, then what is happening would be explained.

 

[KenM10759]

Maybe Paradigm is having problems with the union? If that is the case, then what is happening would be explained.

Maybe it's a case of tariffs? Don't want to start anything political, but those tariffs on imports of certain things from Canada aren't going to be pleasant for the consumer.

 

[Verdinut]

Maybe it's a case of tariffs? Don't want to start anything political, but those tariffs on imports of certain things from Canada aren't going to be pleasant for the consumer.

All because of DT and his nearsighted economics vision.

 

[Ken32]

Maybe Paradigm is having problems with the union? If that is the case, then what is happening would be explained.

That could very well be the issue. All i know is the owner of that store has never seen anything like it. They’ve been in business since 1922 or so (I think he’s a junior?) anywhom, he felt bad i drove all that way for such disappointment, hence the generous discount which is definitely satisfying enough for me to keep my business with them. It’s sad though, they were willing to fix what paradigm screwed up and it wasn’t Barney millers problem to begin with. Great customer service.

 

[Ken32]

@Verdinut @snakeeyes I finally settled on a receiver after all this time. I picked up a Denon x4400h for 899 out the door. When i was looking at them they were 1600. This thing sounds awesome and is packed with everything I’ll ever need for HT.

 

[2channel lover]

@Verdinut @snakeeyes I finally settled on a receiver after all this time. I picked up a Denon x4400h for 899 out the door. When i was looking at them they were 1600. This thing sounds awesome and is packed with everything I’ll ever need for HT.

Congrats!!! Always nice to get new toys.

 

[snakeeyes]

Congrats!!!

 

[Ken32]

Congrats!!! Always nice to get new toys.

Thanks! I tried to upload a pic and it keeps saying file too large...

 

[Ken32]

Congrats!!!

Thanks! I love this thing!