New Basement, New Build, need some advice

[ctsv510]

Construction is starting on my finished basement area and I have a good idea what I want to do media wise and wanted to look for some input from others. I'm doing a 5.1.4 or 5.2.4 setup in a space that is 26' x 22' with 9 foot ceilings with ALL IN-WALL and IN-CEILING speakers. Subwoofer(s) will not be in-wall, just standard. I attached a layout of the space and what I'm thinking in terms of speaker layout. I have duct work running across the room where I wouldn't be able to put any in-ceiling speakers.

Display will be a XBR85X900F.

Usage is general tv and of course, movies. No gaming.

Budget for Audio equipment: Somewhere in the $5,000-$7,000 range.

Questions:
1. Would the rear surrounds be better on the side wall locations or on the back wall of the room? I'm slightly limited by an in-wall fish tank on the one side. May be able to go under the tank but that would leave the speaker only about 36" high.
2. For a room this size, should I really only consider a 2 sub setup or start with 1 and see how it does? And if 2, both in front or one on front and one on the back wall?
3. AVR - I keep coming back to the Denon AVRX4400H. It seems to be a lot of bang for the buck. Recommendations?
4. Speakers - I want to go with a back box style because I think this will sound better and also prevent some sound travel elsewhere in the house. I've been looking at Monitor Audio's Controlled Performance line. Recommendations?
5. Sub(s) - ??

 

[snakeeyes]

My living room is open to my kitchen and it’s 4700 cu ft so a similar size in volume. I’m using two HSU VTF2 subs.

 

[2channel lover]

Construction is starting on my finished basement area and I have a good idea what I want to do media wise and wanted to look for some input from others. I'm doing a 5.1.4 or 5.2.4 setup in a space that is 26' x 22' with 9 foot ceilings with ALL IN-WALL and IN-CEILING speakers. Subwoofer(s) will not be in-wall, just standard. I attached a layout of the space and what I'm thinking in terms of speaker layout. I have duct work running across the room where I wouldn't be able to put any in-ceiling speakers.

Display will be a XBR85X900F.

Usage is general tv and of course, movies. No gaming.

Budget for Audio equipment: Somewhere in the $5,000-$7,000 range.

Questions:
1. Would the rear surrounds be better on the side wall locations or on the back wall of the room? I'm slightly limited by an in-wall fish tank on the one side. May be able to go under the tank but that would leave the speaker only about 36" high.
2. For a room this size, should I really only consider a 2 sub setup or start with 1 and see how it does? And if 2, both in front or one on front and one on the back wall?
3. AVR - I keep coming back to the Denon AVRX4400H. It seems to be a lot of bang for the buck. Recommendations?
4. Speakers - I want to go with a back box style because I think this will sound better and also prevent some sound travel elsewhere in the house. I've been looking at Monitor Audio's Controlled Performance line. Recommendations?
5. Sub(s) - ??

Congrats!

1....ideally I've found the side surrounds perform best on the side of the viewer and slightly behind. The far back wall positions I would probably scrap those.

2....your space is slightly more than 5000 cu ft...there are single subs that can pressurize your space.
One vs two in your case is mostly about balance, eliminating dead spots....I would go with 2 subs.

3....do it

4....For your LCR speakers...go inwall vs in ceiling...yeah, a back box design can have higher performance...especially bass, but sound bleed might be more of an issue with the Atmos or in ceiling speakers.

5.... HSU, Rythmik, SVS, Seaton, etc., if it were me I'd just look for the best "pair" deal among those brands. I found it was hard to beat the price/performance of the HSU subs, but that was a yr ago.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Your room is bigger than mine (22x17) and dual subs made a huge impact for me. I dont care what people claim, but I could always pinpoint where the sub was in the room. Add one to each front corner created a really great base effect in my room. Wire for multiple subs even if you never use them. Wire front and back. This way in the future it'll be easy to add. With a room that size I would go 7.2.4 personally. Why not? Also, 36" high would be a pretty decent height for surrounds when using atmos. Ideally you want them around ear level or a bit higher anyways.

 

[ctsv510]

My living room is open to my kitchen and it’s 4700 cu ft so a similar size in volume. I’m using two HSU VTF2 subs.

Thanks, I think 2 subs is the way to go.

 

[ctsv510]

Congrats!

1....ideally I've found the side surrounds perform best on the side of the viewer and slightly behind. The far back wall positions I would probably scrap those.

2....your space is slightly more than 5000 cu ft...there are single subs that can pressurize your space.
One vs two in your case is mostly about balance, eliminating dead spots....I would go with 2 subs.

3....do it

4....For your LCR speakers...go inwall vs in ceiling...yeah, a back box design can have higher performance...especially bass, but sound bleed might be more of an issue with the Atmos or in ceiling speakers.

5.... HSU, Rythmik, SVS, Seaton, etc., if it were me I'd just look for the best "pair" deal among those brands. I found it was hard to beat the price/performance of the HSU subs, but that was a yr ago.

I'll definitely go in wall for LCR and surrounds. Only atmos will be in ceiling. Thanks for the response!

 

[ctsv510]

Your room is bigger than mine (22x17) and dual subs made a huge impact for me. I dont care what people claim, but I could always pinpoint where the sub was in the room. Add one to each front corner created a really great base effect in my room. Wire for multiple subs even if you never use them. Wire front and back. This way in the future it'll be easy to add. With a room that size I would go 7.2.4 personally. Why not? Also, 36" high would be a pretty decent height for surrounds when using atmos. Ideally you want them around ear level or a bit higher anyways.

Definitely going for 2 subs and I think I will wire two front location and at least one back so I can play with the locations down the line.

I probably should go 7.2.4, huh? The only real issue I have there is that there is absolutely no good place for the left surround speaker. To the left of the seating area the rooms opens up a bit and we'll have all kitchen, and then a bathroom door. Even if I don't put the two side surrounds in at first, I will have to find a place to wire ahead of time because I know I'll kick myself for having not when I had the chance.

 

[snakeeyes]

The $100 sub wireless kit from SVS will work with any sub rather than running long sub cables. They sell them on amazon too.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Atleast wire for it. I have attic access above me so redoing is always an option, but with a basement build you need to plan for future changes now as running later will be challenging. Even if they never get used, wires cheap. A lot of people claim the rear surrounds don't add much but I like mine. I like them even more now with atmos as all of it together just creates this massive sound bubble that sounds to come from everywhere. You also have the luxury of having lots of space behind you. Many people go 5.x because the seats are near the back wall. Even if the placement is not ideal, you'll still get sound behind you.

 

[2channel lover]

Your room is bigger than mine (22x17) and dual subs made a huge impact for me. I dont care what people claim, but I could always pinpoint where the sub was in the room. Add one to each front corner created a really great base effect in my room. Wire for multiple subs even if you never use them. Wire front and back. This way in the future it'll be easy to add. With a room that size I would go 7.2.4 personally. Why not? Also, 36" high would be a pretty decent height for surrounds when using atmos. Ideally you want them around ear level or a bit higher anyways.

Every space is different, but I started out with a sub located on the front (TV) wall and the other near field behind the main seating and I loved the near field sub experience, but I had localization issues on the front wall. It bothered me for music more so movies, but relocating the rear sub to the TV wall took care of that problem.

Maybe one day I'll get a 3rd sub to get the near field experience back.

7.2.4...he certainly has the room. Looking at his diagram, I think he could have some challenges getting the side surrounds located properly...the same would apply to another pair of rear speakers.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Are you going with a tv or a projector? Pic looks like a TV. You might also consider wiring for a future PJ just in case. Looking at your room you actually have a pretty good space to put an Accoustically Transparent Screen in with your main 3 speakers and sub(s) behind it.

 

[2channel lover]

Atleast wire for it. I have attic access above me so redoing is always an option, but with a basement build you need to plan for future changes now as running later will be challenging. Even if they never get used, wires cheap. A lot of people claim the rear surrounds don't add much but I like mine. I like them even more now with atmos as all of it together just creates this massive sound bubble that sounds to come from everywhere. You also have the luxury of having lots of space behind you. Many people go 5.x because the seats are near the back wall. Even if the placement is not ideal, you'll still get sound behind you.

Yeah, if you're doing it yourself, wiring is fairly inexpensive, he definitely should prewire for as much as possible.

As far as the 7.1...plenty of room depth, but I'm not thinking he has the ideal layout for it...I wanted a 7.2.4 system but just as you mentioned I didn't have the depth for it, but now that I'm more in user mode instead of build mode...I'm primaril a music guy anyway, but the vast majority of the movie content I'm finding is 5.1 so I'm thinking I'm missing out on much.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

You have a point, most is not mixed for 7.x, but the AVR can remix it and add to it. My problem is Im the type that always wonders what if? Plus the cost of 2 more speakers will be nothing compared to the cost he is about to spend building this room. He could always turn them off.

Im curious tho, what are your plans for the back of the room? Will there be a 2nd row? Seems like a lot of un-used space.

 

[ctsv510]

7.2.4...he certainly has the room. Looking at his diagram, I think he could have some challenges getting the side surrounds located properly...the same would apply to another pair of rear speakers.

That's really the issue. I could get a side surround in on the right but there really is no place on the left with the kitchen and bath there.

 

[ctsv510]

Are you going with a tv or a projector? Pic looks like a TV. You might also consider wiring for a future PJ just in case. Looking at your room you actually have a pretty good space to put an Accoustically Transparent Screen in with your main 3 speakers and sub(s) behind it.

TV. I thought long and hard about the projector idea but at this point in life it makes more sense to have the TV. I will run an outlet and conduit to directly above the seating area in case I decide to go PJ someday.

 

[2channel lover]

You have a point, most is not mixed for 7.x, but the AVR can remix it and add to it. My problem is Im the type that always wonders what if? Plus the cost of 2 more speakers will be nothing compared to the cost he is about to spend building this room. He could always turn them off.

Im curious tho, what are your plans for the back of the room? Will there be a 2nd row? Seems like a lot of un-used space.

In a space like his, you definitely wire for 7.1...if you can pull it off, great, if you can't you haven't really lost much in the way of materials.

If he does decide to add a second row of seating, he might need to revisit the position of the Atmos speakers.

 

[ctsv510]

Im curious tho, what are your plans for the back of the room? Will there be a 2nd row? Seems like a lot of un-used space.

Pool Table. No second row.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Lots of good advice so far. Definitely would do 2 subs in that space. They will see all of the available airspace so 2 should be good for around 6db extra and help smooth it out as mentioned. Also agree with keeping the surrounds more to the sides than rear will be better, and 7.2.4 might still be possible.
When we built our house, I needed a place for my right surround. What we came up with was a pillar about 14x14 to mount on, and also hold the light switch for various areas of the space. My wife hates it but I was not going to build a house and not have a spot for one stupid speaker lol. It’s not THE most elegant solution but it works.
Anyways, I just wanted to throw it out there that maybe a small(???) architectural detail might solve one of your issues. Maybe not, just putting stuff out there. Here is a couple shots for reference. The old room had a 35lb jbl speaker mounted on the pillar. We redid the room and I used in walls for side surrounds(part of my Atmos compromise lol). So now the room has 7.3.4 installed. Still waiting on avr...

 

[2channel lover]

That's really the issue. I could get a side surround in on the right but there really is no place on the left with the kitchen and bath there.

Best option may be stand mounted surrounds, which is what I did. Or some book shelf speakers that can be surface mounted on the ceiling.

Triad makes inwalls with backboxes...I've heard good things about them.

My Noble Fidelity in ceiling do not have back boxes, but they are some of the best sounding in ceiling speakers I've heard...they're on the upper end of price, but still affordable.

 

[ctsv510]

When we built our house, I needed a place for my right surround. What we came up with was a pillar about 14x14 to mount on, and also hold the light switch for various areas of the space. My wife hates it but I was not going to build a house and not have a spot for one stupid speaker lol. It’s not THE most elegant solution but it works.

We do have a post to the left there in the kitchen area but I'm really trying to stay away from ugly speakers hanging around the room. I know I'm probably compromising some sound quality but aesthetics are important to me...and my wife of course!