A lot of electronics went down. Help me devise a cost effective strategy!

Paul DS

Paul DS

Full Audioholic
In the last week - my Onkyo receiver failed with the dreaded no audio and HDMI went kaput. My Audiosource 200 went out of balance. My Musical Fidelity A5 volume pot stopped working (eventually I will get the time to order the part and fix it, but right now it is the way it is).

Nothing works in my house except for an old Yamaha receiver in the garage that won't quit, and a $45 T-amp that has outlived all the expensive stuff.

This has me re-evaluating how I approach home theater. I have more great speakers than I need. I just want them to play noise with the least headaches possible in an easy to use system that doesn't break all the time. Maybe I don't consider this a hobby anymore, but I really hate it when my system is running 50%-0% functional. If I have to go to great effort to turn on a movie, we'll just look at our ipads instead.

So! I'd love to hear some suggestions about how to drive my HT for the least money possible. I don't care if you say buy 7 T-amps if it's legit!

I'm trying to accomplish 5.1 and 7.1 if I use PLII Height (I'm iffy on how much I love this). My sources these days are Roku playing Netflix and Amazon as well as a Squeezebox (either digital or RCA). I think I need Dolby Plus decoding. Most of my speakers are efficient enough except for center, which an ERA 4 LCR. (Others are Vandersteen and Aperion)

The electronics are going into a cabinent (ventilated) and I'm not going to dote over them. I'd buy off ebay if there are durable workhorses out there. I'm also open to digital amps. If the good stuff is going to break just like the cheap stuff, I just need good binding terminals to feel happy at this point.

I'm swearing off highly complex AVR menus that require I keep the manual handy!

Thoughts are greatly appreciated!!!
Hopefully you have your electronics plugged into an APC battery back up/surge protector. It kind of sounds like you may be having electric problems.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am sure many of us have old electronic devices such as receivers, dvd players, even crt tv etc., but how many hours do we have on those? I still have a RX-V659, AVR-3805, 4308, 1912, DVD-3910, and a few other BDP, even HD DVD players that are in perfect working condition, but none of them has as much accumulated hours as my AV8801. So to compare apples to apples, we need to compare longevity based on hours of use as well, not vintage only. In theory though, all else being equal (more often that not it isn't..), more components/parts would increase chances of failures.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Actually that was made in Japan (AcuDefTecGuy's Denon AVP-A1HD) and was Denon US (or rather their contracted repair facility) that couldn't arrange a fix. Life span is what it is, but kinda like complaining how long a pc lasts before it needs upgrading to keep up....
Correct, that was a brainpo.:D Thank you for the correction.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Hopefully you have your electronics plugged into an APC battery back up/surge protector. It kind of sounds like you may be having electric problems.
That's what I thought, too. Since the general topic of conversation is longevity of electronics, I'd suggest Tripp Lite over APC. Not sure whether this is merely because there are significantly more APC UPSs in the world, but I've seen many more dead APC units than Tripp Lite. Any given Saturday when I visit my local waste management facility, there are almost always a few strip-style APCs in the electronics area. I've taken one or two with me to try resurrecting with replacement cells, but they've always died their true deaths. On the other hand, I've had excellent luck with Tripp Lite units, particularly the 1000+ VA models with dual cells. They'll last several years, I'll replace the cells, and they'll last another several, repeat ad infinitum.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
One of our members recently had his state of the art $7500 Denon pre-pro die and without possibility of repair (the manufacturer tried and threw up its hands).
That would be me. I switched to the Yamaha CX-A5100.

@Grassy also had his Denon AVP-A1 died on him. He initially switched to the Marantz AV8802A, but had some issues so he then switched to the McIntosh MX160.

He said he would try to get his Denon AVP-A1 fixed one day. :D
 
R

roll - gybe

Junior Audioholic
I want to respond to a couple of things brought up in this discussion. I have APC units. I didn't have an electrical problem as already mentioned. The Onkyo has well-know faulty engineering. I won't be shamed into knowing I got a lemon.

I put maybe 40 hours on the Onkyo. I bought it and immediately had a bunch of kids, closed a business, started a new one. So it didn't get the use. The damn thing cost me like $20 an hour of use. That is a scam. If there is shame here, it's on Onkyo for pushing this junk.

I am definitely willing to pay up for stuff that lasts. (hence the Musical Fidelity & 8 Squeezeboxes). This Onkyo presents itself like somthing that would last with it's freaking heavy weight and price tag.

I'm starting to think the Onkyo is just going to go in the garbage. This goes against every grain of my values.

So I guess my train of thought is do I try something like a Marantz HEOS receiver and pick up some new functionality and risk breakdown, or do I get a pre pro like an Outlaw and then risk that breaking? At the moment it's an ugly coin toss to me.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I want to respond to a couple of things brought up in this discussion. I have APC units. I didn't have an electrical problem as already mentioned. The Onkyo has well-know faulty engineering. I won't be shamed into knowing I got a lemon.

I put maybe 40 hours on the Onkyo. I bought it and immediately had a bunch of kids, closed a business, started a new one. So it didn't get the use. The damn thing cost me like $20 an hour of use. That is a scam. If there is shame here, it's on Onkyo for pushing this junk.

I am definitely willing to pay up for stuff that lasts. (hence the Musical Fidelity & 8 Squeezeboxes). This Onkyo presents itself like somthing that would last with it's freaking heavy weight and price tag.

I'm starting to think the Onkyo is just going to go in the garbage. This goes against every grain of my values.

So I guess my train of thought is do I try something like a Marantz HEOS receiver and pick up some new functionality and risk breakdown, or do I get a pre pro like an Outlaw and then risk that breaking? At the moment it's an ugly coin toss to me.
I would advise you to avoid receivers and get a pre/pro and power amps. I have three Marantz pre pros, and the two newer ones run totally cool. The 10 or so year old one has always run slightly warm.

With all the processing now put into receivers they are just not practical, but items of total insanity.

My advice is to avoid receivers entirely and not even put them on the short list, not even if you are not going to drive the amps and use the preouts.

If I did have a receiver with preouts, then I would absolutely open it up and at least disconnect the power amps and probably remove them.
 
A

Andrein

Senior Audioholic
I think there should be a choice. Pay less and replace avr (or anything else) every 2 or 3 years. Or pay more for more reliable brand and keep device longer. To me yamaha is that second brand offered without much premium. Though i would say there should be more brands like that.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
My Sony TA-E and TA-N9000ES amps have been engaged daily for the last 18 years. So far, no problems; and, adding an Airport Express for Airplay function, the amps are still pretty much state of the art for stereo pleasure. Of course, with these amps I'm still living in a 5.1 world; but, I'm nevertheless satisfied, not at all compelled to join the Atmos club.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I think there should be a choice. Pay less and replace avr (or anything else) every 2 or 3 years. Or pay more for more reliable brand and keep device longer. To me yamaha is that second brand offered without much premium. Though i would say there should be more brands like that.
So we have several options, such as the following:

1. Pay less and replace a last year model*, entry to mid range avr every 2 to 3 or 3 to 5 years.(US$500-US$2200)
2. Pay even less for the same as in 1) but for a last year model, brand new with full warranty. (US$400-US$1800)
3. Same as in 2) but start with a lower mid range models, use as prepro set Eco mode* to "On".(US$600-US$1800)
4. Pay much more for a last year prepro. (US$2500 and up)

For some people 3) is better than 4) because then it is possible to simply get a 3 or 5 channel power amp while for others 4) is the best way because they believe (I don't, not any more) prepro offer better sound quality, more reliable* all else being equal. I went from 4 to 3 and am impressed with everything except reliability*, that remains unknown, but will find out in x years.:D

Either 3) or 4) will require a power amp, price range US$500 and up depending on power output and number of channels requirements.

*Last year = 2017, those models typically come with the latest features including Atmos, DTS:X Airplay2, eARC, 4K, HDR10, Dolby vision. Nothing is future proof, but in terms of future proof, buying the 2017 models seems safer than buying the 2015 models in 2016, and much safer than buying the 2012 models (the big gap between HDMI in 2013.

*Eco mode for the D&M models appears to have no effects on the dynamics, that's according to their customer support, and I tested it myself, at reference level. It does cool my AVR-X4400H down for several degrees C.

*Prepro reliability? - Seems like a reasonable assumption that they should be more reliable, but I would suggest before anyone investing $2500 to $4500 (e.g. Marantz),do a search using key words such as issues, repair etc., and one will see they do suffer from most of the same that avr users faced. Examples: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1535197-marantz-av8802-13-2-xlr-pre-pro-official-thread-491.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2930176-marantz-av8805-15-2-xlr-pre-pro-official-thread-67.html

I would feel a lot worse having to send a $4,500 listed AV8805 to a repair center than if it is a $3000 SR8012.

The thing is, the internal amp sections don't really add that much chance of failure for most users, and one single quiet $10 Infinity fan will mitigate heat related concerns. We all know amps, if not abused, could last practically forever but prepros, and the prepro part of AVRs are much more prone to failure.:D Prepro users do have the undeniable advantage that in all likelihood, they only have to replace their prepro, though in terms of overall probability of failure, it is quite complex if one factors in the two pieces vs one piece consideration.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Do you suggest opening it up and spraying contact cleaner? Thanks!
Not randomly, just into the level controls- CAIG D5 is very popular and it's not expensive. If you're not in the US< you may be able to buy Cramolin, which is better.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I’m pretty happy with hdmi 2.0a and 4k UHD with HDR10. The only thing that may move me to upgrade is if Seattle gets the NHL expansion granted. Upgrading to an 80 inch display would be sweet for hockey! :)
"If you buy a new 80-inch TV, you won't be using any HDMI 2.0 anything at full resolution.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
"If you buy a new 80-inch TV, you won't be using any HDMI 2.0 anything at full resolution.
Fall 2020 (earliest start for nhl expansion team) is a while away. I’m sure a lot will change. :)
 
R

roll - gybe

Junior Audioholic
So I called Onkyo today, and they said the entire industry had a problem with the DTS chip. (True? I dunno but it's like when one of my kids hits the other kid and says, "he did it first")

I was offered two units, one a downgrade for $600 and one a comparable (amplification and pre outs) for $1000. The rebate is only good for receivers and a quick look at authorized dealers for a comparable puts me out $1000.

They said they wanted to encourage brand loyalty. They said since it's new, I should be happy - why? Happy with more junk?

What the...

Totally done with Onkyo. Never again.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
I can still remember when Onkyo made really good 2-channel stereo receivers back in the 70's.

Their amp sections were generally good and so was their reliability.

It's sad regarding their quality today.

A friend of mine back in the day had one of these, a TX-8500



What a beautiful work horse it was.
 
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Paul DS

Paul DS

Full Audioholic
You could buy a Denon avr-X4400H for a very reasonable price right now. It has plenty of power and channels. Chances are, it would be all the power you would ever need. You can also add more amplification/channels later if you wish. I can't imagine anyone with reasonably efficient speakers needing more power. To each his own.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
You could buy a Denon avr-X4400H for a very reasonable price right now. It has plenty of power and channels. Chances are, it would be all the power you would ever need. You can also add more amplification/channels later if you wish. I can't imagine anyone with reasonably efficient speakers needing more power. To each his own.
I own that AVR. So far, it has been a beautiful machine.

And the AVR-X3400H is on clearance for $599.99. Quick, buy it.
 
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