Rega Planar 3 Turntable with Elys 2 Cartridge

Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
save your $$ and budget for something better IMO. Vinyl done on the 'cheap' rarely sounds that good anyways.

You said you had a buddy with a high end analog set up, what's his opinion ?
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Nope. Not interested.


He said it's in great shape etc, said he paid $1100 CDN for it so $700 is a fair deal he said, etc etc. Disagree. $550 would be fine, and that's if I could hear it play. Little bickering back and forth, no deal.

Anyone have any suggestions for a TT? Back to square 1. I like the U-Turns but shipping and import fees to Canada makes them not worth it.
There are many ProJect dealers in Canada. I would start scoping them out. I woukd wait until the new models come up so you can scoop up a new "last years" model.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
OP,
The Rega is not user friendly for any who like to change/experiment/upgrade cartridges. Its tonearm does not have a removable headshell; and, being a straight tonearm, you must to use a protractor to properly align the cart you choose, unless its a Rega cartridge. Plus, unless you use a Rega cart, you may not be able to get proper Vertical Tracking Angle. Consider a turntable with s-shaped tonearm, removable headshell, and a tonearm which can be adjusted for VTA. With such, alignment is as easy as setting stylus to headshell tail distance according to turntable manufacturers recommendation, and then, turning cartridge body to be parallel with headshell. Attach headshell to tonearm and adjust height of tonearm for cart to be horizontally level with record. That's it.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
Hello everyone. I have been looking around for a turntable, nothing too spendy, but something that will play records very well. I stumbled across a guy selling his used Rega Planar 3 tt + Elys 2 cartridge.
in great shape, asking half of what new retail is. Are there things I should look for if I go listen to it? I hear it's a pretty wel-made table. Thoughts?
https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT-LP120-USB-Direct-Drive-Professional-Turntable/dp/B002S1CJ2Q

Good value per dollar.
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
The photo is of the current model Planar 3.

Original Planar 3 from the 1970's:

REGA Planar3 1975.jpeg
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
OP,
The Rega is not user friendly for any who like to change/experiment/upgrade cartridges. Its tonearm does not have a removable headshell; and, being a straight tonearm, you must to use a protractor to properly align the cart you choose, unless its a Rega cartridge. Plus, unless you use a Rega cart, you may not be able to get proper Vertical Tracking Angle. Consider a turntable with s-shaped tonearm, removable headshell, and a tonearm which can be adjusted for VTA. With such, alignment is as easy as setting stylus to headshell tail distance according to turntable manufacturers recommendation, and then, turning cartridge body to be parallel with headshell. Attach headshell to tonearm and adjust height of tonearm for cart to be horizontally level with record. That's it.
You use a protractor when installing ANY cartridge in ANY tonearm. The REGA arm has a 3rd bolt hole to mount REGA cartridges, any other brand cartridge mounts with the 2 bolt holes just like any other tonearm. Replaceable SME-type headshells comprise another point of contact that has to be kept free of environmental corrosion which is a problem when your generator (cartridge) outputs milivolts. Plus, after you mount the cartridge with an SME-type headshell, you still have to keep it loose on the headshell and you still have to mount it to align it, same as a 1-piece arm like the REGAs.

I don't see the point of your objection.

If you can't mount a cartridge on the REGA arm (or any 1-piece arm) then you shouldn't be using a manual turntable, probably. Full Auto, maybe a closed-system linear tracker like a Technics SL-10, which doesn't allow you to touch the cartridge. Nothing wrong with that, but if you can handle a manual tonearm (with or without the cuing lever, your choice) then installing a cartridge is not a big deal. Leave the stylus guard on ... they all will allow installation with it in place ... and it's as easy as starting two nuts on two screws.
Technics SL-10.jpg
 
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S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
You use a protractor when installing ANY cartridge in ANY tonearm. The REGA arm has a 3rd bolt hole to mount REGA cartridges, any other brand cartridge mounts with the 2 bolt holes just like any other tonearm. Replaceable SME-type headshells comprise another point of contact that has to be kept free of environmental corrosion which is a problem when your generator (cartridge) outputs milivolts. Plus, after you mount the cartridge with an SME-type headshell, you still have to keep it loose on the headshell and you still have to mount it to align it, same as a 1-piece arm like the REGAs.

I don't see the point of your objection.

If you can't mount a cartridge on the REGA arm (or any 1-piece arm) then you shouldn't be using a manual turntable, probably. Full Auto, maybe a closed-system linear tracker like a Technics SL-10, which doesn't allow you to touch the cartridge. Nothing wrong with that, but if you can handle a manual tonearm (with or without the cuing lever, your choice) then installing a cartridge is not a big deal. Leave the stylus guard on ... they all will allow installation with it in place ... and it's as easy as starting two nuts on two screws.View attachment 25518
No, an s-shaped tonearm does not require the use of a protractor for proper alignment, just set stylus distance from headshell tail to turntable manufactures recommendation, for example on Technics SL-1200's that would be 52mm, and then turn cartridge body to be parallel to headshell axis. That's it, no need for a protractor, unless you want to explore an alternative alignment scheme. And, I know all about Rega carts having a third hole, that's why I distinguished them from other carts in regard to mounting on a Rega tonearm. Finally, "environmental corrosion", give me a break, in practical use that's baloney. Get a reality check. You seem to want to discount facts; and, fact is, your statement "then you shouldn't be using a manual turntable" shows your contempt on this matter. The one piece arm does not work at all well for anyone wishing to use more than one cartridge for a multitude of reasons. Break a lead wire and you will understand.
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
No, an s-shaped tonearm does not require the use of a protractor for proper alignment, just set stylus distance from headshell tail to turntable manufactures recommendation, for example on Technics SL-1200's that would be 52mm, and then turn cartridge body to be parallel to headshell axis. That's it, no need for a protractor, unless you want to explore an alternative alignment scheme. And, I know all about Rega carts having a third hole, that's why I distinguished them from other carts in regard to mounting on a Rega tonearm. Finally, "environmental corrosion", give me a break, in practical use that's baloney. Get a reality check. You seem to want to discount facts; and, fact is, your statement "then you shouldn't be using a manual turntable" shows your contempt on this matter. The one piece arm does not work at all well for anyone wishing to use more than one cartridge for a multitude of reasons. Break a lead wire and you will understand.
But there are many protractors to be had for straight arm. This is not new to the industry. I do agree with the POV that there are far too many unknowns about this TT to make it a straight forward purchase.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
But there are many protractors to be had for straight arm. This is not new to the industry. I do agree with the POV that there are far too many unknowns about this TT to make it a straight forward purchase.
Yeah, 3db you know which hog ate the cabbage. My post, for the most part, was meant just to broaden the OP's basis of understanding for things which may make a particular turntable's engineering more appealing than another. My statement "The Rega is not user friendly for any who like to change/experiment/upgrade cartridges", was the gist of it, the greatest obstacle being no means of VTA adjustment for head high carts short of modifying the turntable.
 
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Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
If you fail to use a protractor (which does much more than just position the stylus tip at a certain location relative to the disk size and the effective length of the tonearm) then you will not obtain the best performance from the cartridge you spent your hard-earned money on, and you may un-necessarily introduce premature record wear.

There is absolutely no difference between a straight and s-shaped arm when it comes to alignment. An S-shaped arm does not mean the alignment criteria simply disappear. They exist to the exact same extent they do on a straight arm.

I am well aware of Technics plastic fixture to set stylus distance. If you're running a DJ table, where high record wear is expected and stylus cantilever construction is robust rather than HiFi, it's perfectly adequate.

For our uses, not so much. It is, of course, better than nothing, but just. Besides, you can print out a perfectly good alignment protractor for 10 cents worth of paper and ink (a buck if you use inkjet). You can't buy Technics' alignment gauge for a dollar anywhere.

Ir's all academic as far as the OP is concerned, with a REGA stylus in a REGA arm, the Vertical Tracking Angle, alignment, parallelism et are all set automatically to the correct values via the 3-point mounting scheme REGA employs.
 
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Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
save your $$ and budget for something better IMO. Vinyl done on the 'cheap' rarely sounds that good anyways.

You said you had a buddy with a high end analog set up, what's his opinion ?
I'm not one to argue against quality turntables, but "something better" means 3~4x his budget. And the improvement will be incremental rather than earth-shattering.

I've owned a Clearaudio TT that cost about $1800 (and a number of others ... Empire, Thorens TD-125, various Technics DDs, Denon DP-60, Marantz TT-15, and a few more). I sold it and use the REGA. I miss the cartridge it came with, though (Arum Beta S).

Although you will be hard pressed to hear a reviewer say it out loud, but a similarly priced REGA is superior to any Pro-Ject or one of the Japanese belt drives. For proof just check out what those same reviewers actually buy for their own systems when they are aware of the market offerings, the performance of each, and get Industry Accommodation pricing no matter what they choose.
 
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slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
It's 2018, and spending big $ on a high quality TT only makes sense if you already have a substantial vinyl collection.

In my opinion, if you are just getting your first taste of vinyl, and don't have any records in your collection, then it just doesn't make sense to spend the big $ until you know for certain that you will be hooked on vinyl and want to add to your collection.

Of course, you need to be sure to spend enough to get a TT that isn't crap and that immediately turns you off to vinyl too.
 
WineOfTheVeins

WineOfTheVeins

Audioholic
Hmm. Thanks for all of the enlightening information everyone. I personally am not a fan of those Audio Technics tables. I don't really want a direct drive DJ table, I prefer best sound possible, preferably a belt drive, something under $2k. These are all good points to think about.

Seller sent me another message this morning saying that he spoke to the owner, they assure me it sounds fantastic and they aren't trying to cheat anyone, he bought a better table so he wants to sell this one, hardly any use. Also dropped the price to $650 from $750. I might go check it out at the very least.

As for my buddy, he offered to come. He said the table probably works, it's not ideal not being able to hear it but he figures it's fine. He also said these Rega tables hold their resale value really well. The one thing he doesn't like is that it's the RP3, the P3 has a whole bunch of little upgrades that make it much better than this version.

As for the budget, that's what I hear. Of course you don't want a Bestbuy or Walmart special for $69 bucks, but where is the $ speetspot for a table where it sounds really nice, but going past that point is a plateau with mild inclines? Are we talking $2k? $5k? $10k?

You raise a good point slip, I own zero vinyl. I have just listened to my buddy's high end VPI table and it sounds wonderful. Granted it's only as good as the recording, and it's hit or miss. Sometimes you hear little pops and crackles, or the album is overproduced etc, but it is kind of fun dropping a record in and seeing it spin, and the warm, dynamic range it has.

I've thought about skipping past vinyl, I have a rather extensive CD collection, from Pink Floyd to Smashing Pumpkins to Fleetwood Mac to Katy Perry, if you want to hear it, I may just have it. I just feel like having an alternative media to what I have now would keep things interesting. I have a lonely top shelf on my new glass audio rack that's begging to show off a turntable. But I've also been debating putting my laptop up there and using it for DSD and FLAC if I choose to pursue the non-physical media route, which, there's something I don't like about not feeling like you own the media. Especially streaming services, you're merely renting music. But even DSD and FLAC files, they can sound great, but why wouldn't I just buy the album on CD? My setup sucks every bit of detail out of the lossless compact disc format, there's really not much difference listening to non-physical. Where the turntable comes in is it does sound different than CD, and it's physical which I like (artwork on the sleeve, actually owning it and holding it, and the different sound it has that I might enjoy if I am wanting to change it up.

Upon inspection though, vinyl, even used vinyl on Amazon etc is really expensive.. I've been ramping up my CD collection, sometimes finding little underpriced treasures on there for $3-$6 a pop, sometimes more. Used vinyl I am looking at $20-$30 a pop. I also love scouting thrift stores etc, where I can usually find some CDs, the other day I found a mint copy of Dark Side of the Moon, 1991 release so it isn't overproduced, sounds wonderful; to boot Discogs shows the cheapest that version runs for is $12 running all the way up to $90. I got it for $2.99. VINYL however, I've checked a few thrift shops. There hadn't been ONE single vinyl album I would have liked to buy, even at the $3.99. It's all rubbish that nobody would ever listen to. All the good stuff is long gone. Then there's the condition.. A CD can have scuffs and scratches on it and play perfectly fine, granted I am very picky so I usually buy Very Good condition or better. Whereas a record, there's warping, dirt and grime, groove wear, etc that could make it sound atrocious. So between shelling out for the TT, I need to shell out for some good records. So much to think about!
 
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slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Hmm. Thanks for all of the enlightening information everyone. I personally am not a fan of those Audio Technics tables. I don't really want a direct drive DJ table, I prefer best sound possible, preferably a belt drive, something under $2k. These are all good points to think about.

Seller sent me another message this morning saying that he spoke to the owner, they assure me it sounds fantastic and they aren't trying to cheat anyone, he bought a better table so he wants to sell this one, hardly any use. Also dropped the price to $650 from $750. I might go check it out at the very least.

As for my buddy, he offered to come. He said the table probably works, it's not ideal not being able to hear it but he figures it's fine. He also said these Rega tables hold their resale value really well. The one thing he doesn't like is that it's the RP3, the P3 has a whole bunch of little upgrades that make it much better than this version.
There are advantages/disadvantages to belt drive vs. direct drive. In particular, the Technics 1200 DD has the platter as the integral rotor of the electric motor, and it does not suffer from many of complaints associated with other DD TTs. The Audio Technica is obviously a clone of the Technics.

I own both DD Technics SL1200 and belt drive Pro-Ject Debut. Overall, the Technics is a better TT, but is was also ~3x the cost so it should be a much better TT. My Pro-Ject is not the DC model, FWIW.

If it were me, I would not be risking my $ on "being assured by the seller" but the seller refusing to allow me to hear it play.
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
Nope. Not interested.


He said it's in great shape etc, said he paid $1100 CDN for it so $700 is a fair deal he said, etc etc. Disagree. $550 would be fine, and that's if I could hear it play. Little bickering back and forth, no deal.

Anyone have any suggestions for a TT? Back to square 1. I like the U-Turns but shipping and import fees to Canada makes them not worth it.
He will have no trouble selling it for $C 700 ($US 570). I don't expect it will be for sale for long.

$C 550 is $US 417.00. The tonearm alone sells for $US 575
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
If you fail to use a protractor (which does much more than just position the stylus tip at a certain location relative to the disk size and the effective length of the tonearm) then you will not obtain the best performance from the cartridge you spent your hard-earned money on, and you may un-necessarily introduce premature record wear.

There is absolutely no difference between a straight and s-shaped arm when it comes to alignment. An S-shaped arm does not mean the alignment criteria simply disappear. They exist to the exact same extent they do on a straight arm.

I am well aware of Technics plastic fixture to set stylus distance. If you're running a DJ table, where high record wear is expected and stylus cantilever construction is robust rather than HiFi, it's perfectly adequate.

For our uses, not so much. It is, of course, better than nothing, but just. Besides, you can print out a perfectly good alignment protractor for 10 cents worth of paper and ink (a buck if you use inkjet). You can't buy Technics' alignment gauge for a dollar anywhere.

Ir's all academic as far as the OP is concerned, with a REGA stylus in a REGA arm, the Vertical Tracking Angle, alignment, parallelism et are all set automatically to the correct values via the 3-point mounting scheme REGA employs.
You're a little confused. Turntables engineered with the s-shaped tonearm do not require a protractor for proper alignment of cart to headshell. The engineered geometry of the tonearm allows cart to simply be set to recommended stylus to headshell tail distance and aligned by eye to be parallel to headshell axis.

You don't need to buy a gauge to set stylus distance to headshell tail distance, all that's necessary is knowledge of correct distance, i.e. 49mm, 52mm, 53mm etc., and a ruler.

And, yes I know all about Rega carts for Rega turntables needing no attention to VTA or alignment. It's when any other cart is desired that it's no longer "academic".
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I can't imagine buying a $2k (even CAD) tt and starting a record collection from that point. I've got my tt/record collection now for many years but haven't bought new vinyl in 20 years. Vinyl's pretty pricey now, often recorded digitally anyways, and the pressings are still likely not all that great due the old pressing gear and maintenance issues (I know there are some new pressing plants coming on line, but...). I'd rather add to the speaker budget....
 
WineOfTheVeins

WineOfTheVeins

Audioholic
I can't imagine buying a $2k (even CAD) tt and starting a record collection from that point. I've got my tt/record collection now for many years but haven't bought new vinyl in 20 years. Vinyl's pretty pricey now, often recorded digitally anyways, and the pressings are still likely not all that great due the old pressing gear and maintenance issues (I know there are some new pressing plants coming on line, but...). I'd rather add to the speaker budget....
Well thankfully there is no speaker budget. I am keeping my Focals for many years to come. But you verified what I said, vinyl is expensive and finding quality ones might be difficult. I see reviews on Amazon for even brand new records and there are complaints about warping, horrible sound, so on.

Fair enough, Johnny. But he will have to find someone who is willing to buy it without getting to listen to it. It's a risk, there's no doubt about it. If everything works great, I got a good deal, if not, I'm out $650.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well thankfully there is no speaker budget. I am keeping my Focals for many years to come. But you verified what I said, vinyl is expensive and finding quality ones might be difficult. I see reviews on Amazon for even brand new records and there are complaints about warping, horrible sound, so on.

Fair enough, Johnny. But he will have to find someone who is willing to buy it without getting to listen to it. It's a risk, there's no doubt about it. If everything works great, I got a good deal, if not, I'm out $650.
Oh yeah, vinyl quality as purchased, vinyl maintenance, tt/cartridge maintenance and tweak talk about protractors and phono stages is fun....for some people (not me particularly, find it tedious), but is it for you? :)
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
again, the pic you provided says RP3 !
If the photo is of the actual turntable, it's definitely a Planar3. RP3 does not have the brace visible in the photo running from the turntable spindle to the tonearm base. That brace system, by the way, results in a fairly significant improvement in Sound Quality over all previous REGAs besides the higher cost REGA6 ($US 1600) and REGA25 models, and the current RP8 ($US 3000) and RP10 ($US 5500), which introduced the system and which trickled down to the ~3 Series with the Planar3.
 
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