Suggestions for replacing Denon x3400h

[TechHDS]

See my post in the things i hate thread. I live in small rural area. Demo'ing is out of the question and friends all use tv speakers.

Drinkpenguin, same boat here where I live small town in the swamps down in the Bayou State. Outside of Wally world store got Nothing else. Oh now they will have the biggest HDTV they get their hands on and go and pair it up with Home theater in a box, you guessed it from Wally World. Now some that live in a doublewide trailer mobile homes with the redwood deck will have DJ setups in the living room speakers all the way up to the ceiling with alligator heads on each side as ornaments. Blasting Cajun French ZadaGo music . Man I hate that kind of music! Lol. That accordion sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me! Lol. I could go on with how some people live in the Deep South it would blow your mind!! Lol. One more thing about them crazy drunk Cajuns down here, they like too eat at restaurants and they have a 3 or 4 member band playing cajun French music AKA Chaika Cenk I call it with that dude whaling away on an accordion! As you may have figured out I’m not from here just moved down here because of work. Good people go out and of there way to help you in times of need. My people’s are from England, I’m originally from New Orleans. I believe the people that are from here call themselves Coonass’s? That’s slang for Boudreaux Thibodeaux’s friends.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Drinkpenguin, same boat here where I live small town in the swamps down in the Bayou State. Outside of Wally world store got Nothing else. Oh now they will have the biggest HDTV they get their hands on and go and pair it up with Home theater in a box, you guessed it from Wally World. Now some that live in a doublewide trailer mobile homes with the redwood deck will have DJ setups in the living room speakers all the way up to the ceiling with alligator heads on each side as ornaments. Blasting Cajun French ZadaGo music . Man I hate that kind of music! Lol. That accordion sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me! Lol. I could go on with how some people live in the Deep South it would blow your mind!! Lol. One more thing about them crazy drunk Cajuns down here, they like too eat at restaurants and they have a 3 or 4 member band playing cajun French music AKA Chaika Cenk I call it with that dude whaling away on an accordion! As you may have figured out I’m not from here just moved down here because of work. Good people go out and of there way to help you in times of need. My people’s are from England, I’m originally from New Orleans. I believe the people that are from here call themselves Coonass’s? That’s slang for Boudreaux Thibodeaux’s friends.

We have a lot in common. The worse thing that can ever happen to someone is relocating to a new world. I'm from California originally and ended up in rural new mexico. Thats a state btw, many people dont know that lol. I have nothing in common with the people here. Nothing.

We did visit New Orleans on vacation a few years ago. We loved that place! I could see myself moving there maybe some day. Did you ever go to the Chop House when you lived there? To this day I still measure every steak to that place and nobody has come close.

 

[tmurnin]

How big is your room? I just went from a 5.1 system to a 5.2.4 and couldn't be happier. I don't think I need the rear surrounds at all with the Atmos heights.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

22' long and 17' wide. Ceilings are 10'. I have 2 rows of seating so the front row is no where near the back wall so 7.2 has worked out in the sense that they are not right behind me. But rear surrounds dont stand out like other speakers do. I've even considering doing something like this, wiring the left surround and rear left surround into 1 channel (but with amps so 2 separate wires.) This would give me a single pair of atmos speakers for over head and double up on the side surrounds. I ran surrounds like this many years ago when I had a receiver that only supported 5.1 and I recall it sounding fine that way.

The bad thing is, testing atmos is not as simple as testing other stuff. I'd have to install the in-ceilings to test so at that point I'm stuck whether I like them or not.

 

[kini]

22' long and 17' wide. Ceilings are 10'. I have 2 rows of seating so the front row is no where near the back wall so 7.2 has worked out in the sense that they are not right behind me. But rear surrounds dont stand out like other speakers do. I've even considering doing something like this, wiring the left surround and rear left surround into 1 channel (but with amps so 2 separate wires.) This would give me a single pair of atmos speakers for over head and double up on the side surrounds. I ran surrounds like this many years ago when I had a receiver that only supported 5.1 and I recall it sounding fine that way.

The bad thing is, testing atmos is not as simple as testing other stuff. I'd have to install the in-ceilings to test so at that point I'm stuck whether I like them or not.

You don't have to install the speakers in the ceiling to test it out. You could mount a set of bookshelf speakers high on the front wall and angle them towards the main listening position, or even hang them from the ceiling in the locations that you would install speakers if you went with Atmos. At most it would be a couple of drywall screws.

I'm using some small bookshelf speakers as Atmos "enabled/up firing speakers" and I can't really say if they work or not so I wouldn't bother going with something like that. Of course if you have a set of speakers lying around you could try them as up firing speakers.

 

[TechHDS]

We have a lot in common. The worse thing that can ever happen to someone is relocating to a new world. I'm from California originally and ended up in rural new mexico. Thats a state btw, many people dont know that lol. I have nothing in common with the people here. Nothing.

We did visit New Orleans on vacation a few years ago. We loved that place! I could see myself moving there maybe some day. Did you ever go to the Chop House when you lived there? To this day I still measure every steak to that place and nobody has come close.

Chop House oooh man very tasty steaks! They say the best steaks are from Texas, I totally disagree with that statement. I have had steaks when I lived in Texas back in 97 and No way can they top the Chop House. Then they have the very best seafood in NOLA famous ACME house best oysters on the half shell. Their seafood gumbo was to die for.

Mike

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Chop House oooh man very tasty steaks! They say the best steaks are from Texas, I totally disagree with that statement. I have had steaks when I lived in Texas back in 97 and No way can they top the Chop House. Then they have the very best seafood in NOLA famous ACME house best oysters on the half shell. Their seafood gumbo was to die for.

Mike

You're making me hungry, and I just ate lunch!

 

[Drunkpenguin]

The 3 best steaks I've ever had in order, Chop House in NO, Montanas in Juarez Mexico (believe it or not its amazing), and 3rd comes from a chain, Ruth Chris. Oh, I'm starving now myself. Lunch is gonna be disapointing today now.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

I've decided to send the X3400 back. And I'm getting an X4400! What the heck! 7.2.4 here we come! I really don't like the other brands. Yamaha wouldn't even respond to my questions. I had a lot of emails back and forth with Denon the last couple days and they are pretty cool over there. They answered all my questions quickly and kinda turned me around so I'm happy with this choice.

Once the whether cools down (it was 100 today) then I'll start working my way through the attic for some in-walls.

 

[Auditor55]

I just bought a Denon 3400 thinking that it could do a 7.2.4 atmos setup, but turns out it cannot. If you look at the Denon product page they are lying about the capabilities of this receiver. I'd like to return it and replace it. Any NON Denons I should look at in the 600 dollar price range? Even if it cannot do 7.2.4 I'd like some suggestions to look at. I'm likely going to stick with 7.2 anyways now that I see those receivers cost quite a bit more. My only real requirements would be volume on screen since my equipment is in a closet. I'm not 4k yet, but would like to be ready for it in the when the time comes to replace my PJ. I have a 5 channel amp so I don't need a receiver with high output.

Denon Product page which clearly shows 11.2
(Cant post links yet, but if you want to find it just go to Denons web site.)

Wait. There isn't enough movies to justify 11.1 anyway. I don't know why people are in such a hurry to spend money on a format that's hardly supported. There are people on another forum complaining that their receivers won't do 13.2 like they thought.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Wait. There isn't enough movies to justify 11.1 anyway. I don't know why people are in such a hurry to spend money on a format that's hardly supported. There are people on another forum complaining that they receivers won't do 13.2 like they thought.

Pretty sure there’s like 350ish titles with atmos already. Not to mention DSU...

 

[Bookmark]

If there were 30 overhead and underfloor speakers then some one would want it. Most people are happy with stereo or a soundbar. This is not a normal place, with normal people. If you build it, we will buy it, whether it actually makes a difference or not.

I've had 7.1 for over 15 years, currently I am trying 9.1, soon to be 11.1. I can't say I am noticing a measurable difference but it sounds nice.

Both Dolby and DTS have upmixers for any old sound formats which can improve things for the most part. There is even Auro 3D for some, whose system supports it as yet another option.

Atmos, Dts:X is largely the domain of 4K UHD discs however there are a few blurays with this format (hopefully growing). Those that don't usually have True HD or Master Audio.

 

[PENG]

If there were 30 overhead and underfloor speakers then some one would want it. Most people are happy with stereo or a soundbar. This is not a normal place, with normal people. If you build it, we will buy it, whether it actually makes a difference or not.

I've had 7.1 for over 15 years, currently I am trying 9.1, soon to be 11.1. I can't say I am noticing a measurable difference but it sounds nice.

Both Dolby and DTS have upmixers for any old sound formats which can improve things for the most part. There is even Auro 3D for some, whose system supports it as yet another option.

Atmos, Dts:X is largely the domain of 4K UHD discs however there are a few blurays with this format (hopefully growing). Those that don't usually have True HD or Master Audio.

When you say trying 9.1, did you mean Atoms, or something else? Based on what I read so far, Atmos, being object driven, sounds interesting enough for me to want to try and that's pretty much the only reason I returned the 3400 for the 4400, otherwise I was very please of the 3400 that compared favorable with my separate Halo amp and CA preamp in Stereo performance.

The problem is, I have only 8 ft ceiling and my Energy Veritas 2.3i's top are doom shaped so the easily solution is out and for ceiling mount speakers I have to figure a good way to hide the wires, not really sure if it is worth it, so if you are trying 9.2 Atmos, any feedback will be appreciated.

 

[PENG]

I've decided to send the X3400 back. And I'm getting an X4400! What the heck! 7.2.4 here we come! I really don't like the other brands. Yamaha wouldn't even respond to my questions. I had a lot of emails back and forth with Denon the last couple days and they are pretty cool over there. They answered all my questions quickly and kinda turned me around so I'm happy with this choice.

Once the whether cools down (it was 100 today) then I'll start working my way through the attic for some in-walls.

Congrats! Don't forget to put an ext fan on top, or turn on ECO (if you listen to spl that requires only a few W avg.)

 

[Drunkpenguin]

In my case I'm due to an upgraded receiver anyways. I had my last one since 2009 so I don't upgrade all that often. I want something thats gonna last me a long time so I figured might as well go for a full 11.1 at this point. For me the cost is minimal as I already have a 7 speaker system in place and the 5 channel amp needed to do it. All I need is the receiver and some in-ceilings. In-ceilings are pretty affordable.

@PENG
Do these run pretty hot? I have an equipment closet that has an exhaust fan in it. It does a very good job at keeping the closet cool. WIll I need more? I have a 5 channel Emotiva AMP so I'll only be using 6 of the receivers amp channels. I watch movies at reference level, but we dont watch regular TV in the theater so the system is never on for more than a couple hours at a time.

 

[PENG]

In my case I'm due to an upgraded receiver anyways. I had my last one since 2009 so I don't upgrade all that often. I want something thats gonna last me a long time so I figured might as well go for a full 11.1 at this point. For me the cost is minimal as I already have a 7 speaker system in place and the 5 channel amp needed to do it. All I need is the receiver and some in-ceilings. In-ceilings are pretty affordable.

@PENG
Do these run pretty hot? I have an equipment closet that has an exhaust fan in it. It does a very good job at keeping the closet cool. WIll I need more? I have a 5 channel Emotiva AMP so I'll only be using 6 of the receivers amp channels. I watch movies at reference level, but we dont watch regular TV in the theater so the system is never on for more than a couple hours at a time.

From my experience, but note that I do not listen at reference level, usually 10-15 dB below that so the internal amps never had to work hard. Since the AV-4308CI, I have been using AVPs, and now the AVR-X4400H's pre outs only but they still get quite warm, like 43 to 47 degree on the top of the chassis, that's quite warm because I only have 2.5" of clearance. When I had a few more inches before (I had to give space to the Oppo on the top shelf), it was a few degrees lower (going by memory) and I would feel comfortable without the external fans.

Anyway, I found the AVR-X4400H warmer than the X3400H when idling, and it seems warmer than the Marantz AV8801 it replaced too. That is expected because the power amp section still adds heat even not used. Based on the measured temperature on top of the chassis, it should be fine without the fan but I just want to have some extra margin and hopefully extends it's useful life. With the fans, it stays below 40 degree C at all time.

 

[Bookmark]

@PENG, yes trying the Atmos. Marantz is driving the extras

For the Marantz, it gets warm regardless of the volume level. For stereo music/video playback it's usually around -36 and that is noticable after a while, not execessive. For Atmos duties its @ -10 and doesn't get any hotter, likely because it's not doing much most of the time. We'll see how it goes once its running the 4. It is out in the open, on a box.

 

[PENG]

For the Marantz, it gets warm regardless of the volume level. For stereo music/video playback it's usually around -36 and that is noticable after a while, not execessive. For Atmos duties its @ -10 and doesn't get any hotter, likely because it's not doing much most of the time. We'll see how it goes once its running the 4. It is out in the open, on a box.

Again, an AVR that has to output only a few watts average, their volume position will have little to do with the how warm the unit gets but for those who listen much louder such that the AVR has to output even 10-20 W average, they will feel the heat increase. Peaks matter little unless it peaks a lot, like all the time.

For AVP, the volume position will obviously have negligible effects on heat.

 

[PENG]

@PENG, yes trying the Atmos. Marantz is driving the extras

Have you tried it long enough to comment on the effects, gains? Thanks

 

[Bookmark]

I did the Player one, which is Atmos and that was good (early race and the big finale). Ran through all the atmos/dts:x demos that I have. Last couple of days we did the LOTR trilogy extended with the DSU along with both Sherlocks last night (they are all Dts MA).

It is kind of hard to tell. Placement is not good at the moment, but it does seem to move some effects into the room, improve the bubble so to speak.