Need help/ advice on Marantz SR8012

[Audio-A]

Hi all!
I’ve been planning on and slowly buying components to finish out my home theatre room. So I just pulled the trigger on the Marantz SR8012... I bought this first bc I already have an 11.2 system in my living room that runs off a Denon 4520 ( that I absolutely love) and I just found the time yesterday to swap the two units out so that I could see what the difference in sound and vision was like. Keep in mind that I had the Denon set to Pre-Out and I’ll list my other components involved in this system below. To keep this short, after I swapped them out and checked several inputs and I am not impressed with the sound or lack of volume from the SR8012!
That said, I didn’t hook it up to the Net bc after reading Genes reviews and watching his Videos, I had some reservations about this product and I wasn’t sure if I wanted to go with the AV7704 and thought if I do a firmware update the seller might not take it back. So I’ve not used The Audyssey editors app either but I did run the full Audyssey set up with the mic just as I’ve done on my Denon so many times.
To the point, after running Audyssey and checking crossovers, etc... the SR8012 volume level is half of that when my Denon is connected? For example I could listen to my Denon at -48 at a loud level and with the Marantz I’m having to push it to -15 -10 to get even close to what the Denons volume does. None of this makes any sense to me as I’m using the same amps and speakers and only swapped the receivers out. I also don’t see a place where I can use Audyssey DSX or mix it with Dolby or DTS etc..
I’ve also adjusted the dynamic volume settings to match what I had on my Denon with very little change in volume from the Sr8012.

I truly hope there’s a solution to this or the SR8012 will never make it up to my theatre room as is.
Any help or advice would be So Greatly Appreciated!

Thanks for your time!

The Following is what is connected to the SR8012 and the 4520 Ci;
Emotiva XPA 5 Gen 2 which are running my Front 3 and Surrounds.
Outlaw Audio 5000 that runs to all other speakers.
Tv/ Samsung KS 8500 55”

 

[lovinthehd]

That doesn't make much sense I agree. -48 otoh is a fairly low playback level (and am using a 4520). Did you have source level boosted on the Denon? What were the various trim values after Audyssey on each unit? Dynamic volume? Why use that? Or do you mean DynamicEQ? Does the 8012 have Audyssey DSX? I don't see it in the spec sheet. One thing you might try is to do a microprocessor reset and re-run Audyssey. Do you have an spl measurement of what you had with the Denon vs Marantz or at least what the Marantz is doing now at -15/-10?

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

You can’t reasonably compare the level settings of receivers from one to next, much less between different brands, because there is no universal standard for volume-control calibration. For instance, some top out at 0 dB, others allow for + dB settings (i.e. “higher” than 0 dB).

I believe the two are different references for volume settings, but as I understand the one that maxes at 0 dB is basically a dBv reference relative to the pre-amp’s maximum voltage output. Thus a setting of, for example, - 33 dB means “ 33 dBv below maximum output.” Different receiver pre-amps have different output voltages, so you can’t even reasonably compare the settings between say, a mid-level model vs. a flagship model from the same manufacturer.

I am not impressed with the sound or lack of volume from the SR8012!

You never got around to saying what you don’t like about the sound quality.

Ultimately all that matters is: Are you able to play your system as loud as you were before (e.g. in-room SPL levels)? If so, then there is nothing wrong with the Marantz compared to the Denon.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Audio-A]

That doesn't make much sense I agree. -48 otoh is a fairly low playback level (and am using a 4520). Did you have source level boosted on the Denon? What were the various trim values after Audyssey on each unit? Dynamic volume? Why use that? Or do you mean DynamicEQ? Does the 8012 have Audyssey DSX? I don't see it in the spec sheet. One thing you might try is to do a microprocessor reset and re-run Audyssey. Do you have an spl measurement of what you had with the Denon vs Marantz or at least what the Marantz is doing now at -15/-10?

Thank u very much for replying!
Please bare with me as my response may seem/ be pretty convoluted

I did have the source levels maxed on the 4520 and I did the same on both analog and digital inputs but with the way my tv is set up w/ the 8012 ( which may be the problem ) all inputs sources are going into the One Connect box then a single HDMI connecting the Tv to the 8012, I had to run it this way with the 4520 in order to pass through the 4K.
Which makes this unit show as TV Audio no matter what source I pick. I have to use the TVs universal remote to change sources which I like bc it will control just about anything I throw at it and it instantly started controlling the SR8012. Every time I would select, let’s say 4K fire and when I pressed set up to try to adjust the 4K fire source levels etc... the SR8012 switches back to Tv Audio and changes the source back to the 8012 instead of staying on the 4K fire source and shuts off all audio and video and I only see the 8012 set up screen, not as an overlay like one would think for each source.
Pardon me, I meant Dynamic EQ. The trims were just about the same as the Denon and the crossovers are at 80/120. I thought this unit had everything plus the kitchen sink thrown in it, but now I’m thinking it doesn’t even have Audyssey DSX which is a shame.
No I haven’t done a SPL measurement as it’s so off in volume I haven’t thought of fine tuning it just yet. Right now I have the LLBB World Series on at -15 and I could have a conversation in the room. It’s sounds crystal clear but Compared to the 4520 at -15 I would be rattling not only mine but the neighbors roof off too!!
Just a side not, I have the Eco mode turned off as well and like Gene said in his reviews unlike the 4520 it doesn’t have a Pre-Amp mode either... which IMHO Really deflates the value of this unit!! So to say the least, I was disappointed when I felt the top of the unit and it was pretty darn hot last night.

I have to be missing/ doing something wrong with this unit or don’t have the right settings adjusted... I’m at a loss right now guys!!

Any other thoughts, fellows?

 

[Audio-A]

You can’t reasonably compare the level settings of receivers from one to next, much less between different brands, because there is no universal standard for volume-control calibration. For instance, some top out at 0 dB, others allow for + dB settings (i.e. “higher” than 0 dB).

I believe the two are different references for volume settings, but as I understand the one that maxes at 0 dB is basically a dBv reference relative to the pre-amp’s maximum voltage output. Thus a setting of, for example, - 33 dB means “ 33 dBv below maximum output.” Different receiver pre-amps have different output voltages, so you can’t even reasonably compare the settings between say, a mid-level model vs. a flagship model from the same manufacturer.


You never got around to saying what you don’t like about the sound quality.

Ultimately all that matters is: Are you able to play your system as loud as you were before (e.g. in-room SPL levels)? If so, then there is nothing wrong with the Marantz compared to the Denon.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Thanks for the response!
The sound quality seems great, but it difficult to tell the difference between the two bc the volume is, i would say at half the volume of the Flagship Denon 4520.

 

[PENG]

I wasn’t sure if I wanted to go with the AV7704 and thought if I do a firmware update the seller might not take it back. So I’ve not used The Audyssey editors app either but I did run the full Audyssey set up with the mic just as I’ve done on my Denon so many times.

Since you are using external amps anyway, you may consider going with a 2017 Denon AVR-X4400H that should be on clearance sale by now. I just replaced my AV8801 with the Denon and heard no difference, in fact the Denon seems to have better bass and Audyssey was able to flatten the bass response slightly better than the Marantz, even without using the Editor App. Also, going from the SR8012 to the AV7704 seems like a slight downgrade.

To the point, after running Audyssey and checking crossovers, etc... the SR8012 volume level is half of that when my Denon is connected? For example I could listen to my Denon at -48 at a loud level and with the Marantz I’m having to push it to -15 -10 to get even close to what the Denons volume does.

Sounds to me you might have accidentally messed up the settings on the SR8012. The gain structure between the two should be very similar if not exactly the same. If you ran Audyssey properly, you should be getting about 70-75 dB from you main mic position for either unit with volume set to "0", using the internal test tone.

I also agree with HD, that -48 is very low so if the Denon really sounded loud at -48, something was not right either, unless you were playing a source that had unusually high output, such as some of the MP3 music online using your browser, or You-tube, etc.

None of this makes any sense to me as I’m using the same amps and speakers and only swapped the receivers out. I also don’t see a place where I can use Audyssey DSX or mix it with Dolby or DTS etc..
I’ve also adjusted the dynamic volume settings to match what I had on my Denon with very little change in volume from the Sr8012.

The volume thing does not make any sense for sure, as suggested, do a processor reset and re-do the set up. If still the same then you may want to consider getting a replacement. The SR8012 does not have Audyssey DSX. The 2017/2018 Denon models don't have that either.

I truly hope there’s a solution to this or the SR8012 will never make it up to my theatre room as is.
Any help or advice would be So Greatly Appreciated!

Again, if you are not using the internal amps, the X4400H, or X6400H if you can get a good deal on one could be a good alternative. The so called warmer Marantz sound is just hearsay, I have heard and own enough Marantz and Denon to know that for fact. Or if you must have a Marantz, get the SR7012 but negotiate hard to get the best clearance price.

The 4520 has impressive bench test results, I hope you will keep it for a stereo system or a second HT system. It even has a better DAC than the SR8012.

 

[PENG]

You can’t reasonably compare the level settings of receivers from one to next, much less between different brands, because there is no universal standard for volume-control calibration. For instance, some top out at 0 dB, others allow for + dB settings (i.e. “higher” than 0 dB).

You can definitely compare the two, if used in the same room with the same speakers and everything else. They have the same kind of gain structure, volume control range, and the same Audyssey XT32 version.

 

[lovinthehd]

You can’t reasonably compare the level settings of receivers from one to next, much less between different brands, because there is no universal standard for volume-control calibration. For instance, some top out at 0 dB, others allow for + dB settings (i.e. “higher” than 0 dB).

I believe the two are different references for volume settings, but as I understand the one that maxes at 0 dB is basically a dBv reference relative to the pre-amp’s maximum voltage output. Thus a setting of, for example, - 33 dB means “ 33 dBv below maximum output.” Different receiver pre-amps have different output voltages, so you can’t even reasonably compare the settings between say, a mid-level model vs. a flagship model from the same manufacturer.


You never got around to saying what you don’t like about the sound quality.

Ultimately all that matters is: Are you able to play your system as loud as you were before (e.g. in-room SPL levels)? If so, then there is nothing wrong with the Marantz compared to the Denon.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Actually running Audyssey between the Denon and Marantz should yield the same results (with perhaps a slight variance) in terms of using the same relative volume scale. They both can switch between the relative and absolute volume scales. Seems from the numbers the relative scale is in use.
@Audio-A can you confirm both are using the relative scale and you're not making errors in using the negative sign in front of the volume number?

 

[lovinthehd]

You can definitely compare the two, if used in the same room with the same speakers and everything else. They have the same kind of gain structure, volume control range, and the same Audyssey XT32 version.

LOL you beat me to it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank u very much for replying!
Please bare with me as my response may seem/ be pretty convoluted

I did have the source levels maxed on the 4520 and I did the same on both analog and digital inputs but with the way my tv is set up w/ the 8012 ( which may be the problem ) all inputs sources are going into the One Connect box then a single HDMI connecting the Tv to the 8012, I had to run it this way with the 4520 in order to pass through the 4K.
Which makes this unit show as TV Audio no matter what source I pick. I have to use the TVs universal remote to change sources which I like bc it will control just about anything I throw at it and it instantly started controlling the SR8012. Every time I would select, let’s say 4K fire and when I pressed set up to try to adjust the 4K fire source levels etc... the SR8012 switches back to Tv Audio and changes the source back to the 8012 instead of staying on the 4K fire source and shuts off all audio and video and I only see the 8012 set up screen, not as an overlay like one would think for each source.
Pardon me, I meant Dynamic EQ. The trims were just about the same as the Denon and the crossovers are at 80/120. I thought this unit had everything plus the kitchen sink thrown in it, but now I’m thinking it doesn’t even have Audyssey DSX which is a shame.
No I haven’t done a SPL measurement as it’s so off in volume I haven’t thought of fine tuning it just yet. Right now I have the LLBB World Series on at -15 and I could have a conversation in the room. It’s sounds crystal clear but Compared to the 4520 at -15 I would be rattling not only mine but the neighbors roof off too!!
Just a side not, I have the Eco mode turned off as well and like Gene said in his reviews unlike the 4520 it doesn’t have a Pre-Amp mode either... which IMHO Really deflates the value of this unit!! So to say the least, I was disappointed when I felt the top of the unit and it was pretty darn hot last night.

I have to be missing/ doing something wrong with this unit or don’t have the right settings adjusted... I’m at a loss right now guys!!

Any other thoughts, fellows?

What do you mean the crossovers are the same 80/120? What is a One Connect? Why are you using it with the 8012 for 4k, shouldn't need it....you should have all sources input to the 8012. Pre-amp mode really shouldn't make any audible difference; is it just the heat that you think is the difference?

 

[PENG]

LOL you beat me to it.

I know Wayne is very knowledgeable, but probably not particularly familiar with the D&M product lines.

 

[lovinthehd]

I know Wayne is very knowledgeable, but probably not particularly familiar with the D&M product lines.

Definitely a valid point say with a Sony avr, that last I checked was still pretty much on its own with volume scale. My Onkyo matches up quite well having Audyssey as well as similar volume scales.

 

[Audio-A]

Since you are using external amps anyway, you may consider going with a 2017 Denon AVR-X4400H that should be on clearance sale by now. I just replaced my AV8801 with the Denon and heard no difference, in fact the Denon seems to have better bass and Audyssey was able to flatten the bass response slightly better than the Marantz, even without using the Editor App. Also, going from the SR8012 to the AV7704 seems like a slight downgrade.



Sounds to me you might have accidentally messed up the settings on the SR8012. The gain structure between the two should be very similar if not exactly the same. If you ran Audyssey properly, you should be getting about 70-75 dB from you main mic position for either unit.

I also agree with HD, that -48 is very low so if the Denon really sounded loud at -48, something was not right either, unless you were playing a source that had unusually high output, such as some of the MP3 music online using your browser, or You-tube, etc.



The volume thing does not make any sense for sure, as suggested, do a processor reset and re-do the set up. If still the same then you may want to consider getting a replacement. The SR8012 does not have Audyssey DSX. The 2017/2018 Denon models don't have that either.



Again, if you are not using the internal amps, the X4400H, or X6400H if you can get a good deal on one could be a good alternative. The so called warmer Marantz sound is just hearsay, I have heard and own enough Marantz and Denon to know that for fact. Or if you must have a Marantz, get the SR7012 but negotiate hard to get the best clearance price.

The 4520 has impressive bench test results, I hope you will keep it for a stereo system or a second HT system. It even has a better DAC than the SR8012.

Thanks for responding!
Funny you say that bc I’ve been having buyers remorse, even before it got here, lol!
Oh, the 4520 is staying with me as long as it’ll have me! It’s been one of the most solid AVR I’ve owned thru the years.
Yea I’m not buying the Warm and fuzzy Marantz difference, as I too have owned several of D&M myself and this one has thrown me for a loop!

At 3k price point, one would assume that the SR8012 would knock the socks off of a 2014 Denon 4520! Especially given the changes in technology and all the Hu-Ra over this one.
I couldn’t agree more with what you said.
I was actually going to buy the 6300H as that one was built in Japan, as well and I’ve owned other D&Ms that were made in Nam and haven’t been impressed with the build quality of those. By doing so, I think? I would be able to keep DSX and To keep Dolby the way it is with 4520? Which allows me to upmix and combine all different types of audio formats with out any Dolby Big Brother limitations. I was also thinking of the A/V 7704 as well bc Gene said it had many other options on it but I’m not sure what all that includes or if they’re the same as this one? Gene seems to be a big fan of Yamaha units... I’ve only heard a neighbors and the DSP had me laughing! But that was a long time ago and not in my house with my system... thoughts on Yamaha, anyone?

I definitely don’t want to give up on this unit just yet, as it’s built just like the 4520 ( a Tank) in design and weight. ( but it’s very discouraging given I can’t use the inboard amps for anything even though I’m not using them.)
I’ve just started tinkering with it and I’m praying that there’s a solution to this volume issue... which I’m thinking it may involve a different hook up with my TV and plugging the sources directly to the SR8012 .. or do you all think my set up as stated previously, is ok?
I think I’ll look into resetting it as well, but I may go ahead and update the firmware and use the editor app to see if that may help my cause. That said, I can’t imagine that a seller on Amazon would care if update the firmware... Incase I want to return or swap out?? Any thoughts on all my issues? Sounds like I’m in therapy !

 

[Audio-A]

Actually running Audyssey between the Denon and Marantz should yield the same results (with perhaps a slight variance) in terms of using the same relative volume scale. They both can switch between the relative and absolute volume scales. Seems from the numbers the relative scale is in use.
@Audio-A can you confirm both are using the relative scale and you're not making errors in using the negative sign in front of the volume number?

Thanks for responding...
Yes sir... I’m using the relative scale.

 

[Audio-A]

What do you mean the crossovers are the same 80/120? What is a One Connect? Why are you using it with the 8012 for 4k, shouldn't need it....you should have all sources input to the 8012. Pre-amp mode really shouldn't make any audible difference; is it just the heat that you think is the difference?

Thanks for your response HD... I know Wayne has the best of intentions.

In other words, after I ran Audyssey, I confirmed that the XOvers were set to 80 and 120 just as I had on the 4520. One Connect is Samsung’s way of plugging all sources into a lil box that’s attached to a long thick cord that goes into the TV. Instead of having to run cords all to the back of the unit. I’m thinking you are correct about plugging all sources into the SR8012... I had to plug all into the One Connect bc the 4520 isn’t 4K ready but has pass thru. The part about the heat / pre outs that bothers me is bc I can’t use any of them for other rooms / zones etc... bc the SR8012 think I’m using them all. There’s no disconnect between them. So it’s unused amps that I could use to run outside or in my work shop etc..

 

[PENG]

At 3k price point, one would assume that the SR8012 would knock the socks off of a 2014 Denon 4520!

Reality is, for D&M models, once get to the lower midrange models such as the AVR-X3400H, SR6012, more money only get you more power (not too significant either as you need double the power for 3 dB louder), and more features. Things like higher end DAC, toroidal transformer for those units don't translate into audibly better sound quality.

I was actually going to buy the 6300H as that one was built in Japan, as well and I’ve owned other D&Ms that were made in Nam and haven’t been impressed with the build quality of those. By doing so, I think? I would be able to keep DSX and To keep Dolby the way it is with 4520? Which allows me to upmix and combine all different types of audio formats with out any Dolby Big Brother limitations.

Not really, unless you go all the way back to the AVR-X6200H, the newer D&M models don't do Audyssey DSX any more.

I was also thinking of the A/V 7704 as well bc Gene said it had many other options on it

Like what? It has balanced connections, that's about it. It won't have the gold plated rca connectors and copper plated chassis that are only for the SR8012 and AV8805.

But that was a long time ago and not in my house with my system... thoughts on Yamaha, anyone?

I think Yamaha's RX-A3080 would be an excellent alternative to the SR8012. I only prefer D&M's because I know I can get good results with Audyssey.

I definitely don’t want to give up on this unit just yet, as it’s built just like the 4520 ( a Tank) in design and weight. ( but it’s very discouraging given I can’t use the inboard amps for anything even though I’m not using them.)

That exactly why I opted for the cheap AVR-X4400H, that should allow me to get a new one every 3-4 years without feeling the pain.

I’ve just started tinkering with it and I’m praying that there’s a solution to this volume issue... which I’m thinking it may involve a different hook up with my TV and plugging the sources directly to the SR8012 .. or do you all think my set up as stated previously, is ok?

I have two questions for you:

1. Are you sure you haven't unknowingly set the mute level to -20 dB, and have it set to always on when power is turned on? This is unlikely if your got a brand new unit in a sealed box.

2. How loud is loud to you? There is no way the Denon can be loud with volume at -48!! As I mentioned before, unless you are using a source or sources that happened to have very high output such as many MP3 music or videos on You-tube, or internet radio etc.

I think I’ll look into resetting it as well, but I may go ahead and update the firmware and use the editor app to see if that may help my cause. That said, I can’t imagine that a seller on Amazon would care if update the firmware... Incase I want to return or swap out?? Any thoughts on all my issues? Sounds like I’m in therapy !

Resetting it is a good idea if you haven't found the root cause for the lower gain yet. However, I would advise against using the Editor App if using the same crossover points that you used in you 4520 sounds good to you.

If not, try changing the crossovers for the L,R,C until it sounds the best to you. Audyssey is good in setting things up, but in my experience you have to find the best crossover points by trial and error. The Editor app is only good if after each adjustment/new target curve, you check the result with REW and then make another target curve based on the REW plots. You may need to do this a few times before the results are visibly better.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for your response HD... I know Wayne has the best of intentions.

In other words, after I ran Audyssey, I confirmed that the XOvers were set to 80 and 120 just as I had on the 4520. One Connect is Samsung’s way of plugging all sources into a lil box that’s attached to a long thick cord that goes into the TV. Instead of having to run cords all to the back of the unit. I’m thinking you are correct about plugging all sources into the SR8012... I had to plug all into the One Connect bc the 4520 isn’t 4K ready but has pass thru. The part about the heat / pre outs that bothers me is bc I can’t use any of them for other rooms / zones etc... bc the SR8012 think I’m using them all. There’s no disconnect between them. So it’s unused amps that I could use to run outside or in my work shop etc..

Was more wondering if you meant crossovers and LPF of LFE for the 80/120 thing.

Yes, I'd not use the One Connect any longer with the new avr that doesn't need it.

Guess I'll have to go review the 8012 amp assign thing, didn't think it was that different from the Denon amp assign....what exactly is it preventing you from doing with other zones?

 

[lovinthehd]

At 3k price point, one would assume that the SR8012 would knock the socks off of a 2014 Denon 4520! Especially given the changes in technology and all the Hu-Ra over this one.

I'd only expect different features, primarily 4k/Atmos related. Knocking socks off? What does that even mean ?

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Thanks for the response!
The sound quality seems great, but it difficult to tell the difference between the two bc the volume is, i would say at half the volume of the Flagship Denon 4520.

Well then, just turn it up. What’s the problem with doing that? As long as you can ultimately get the same SPL in the room that you were before, what difference does the number on the display mean?

I had the same "issue," if one wants to call it that, with my current AVR vs. the one that came before it, both top-of-the-line flagship models. The former "operates" much closer to the top of the volume scale (digital-readout speaking) than the previous one. I though it was a bit peculiar, but not enough to lose any sleep over. It is what it is, no big deal. In day-to-day operation it works fine.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

You can definitely compare the two, if used in the same room with the same speakers and everything else. They have the same kind of gain structure, volume control range, and the same Audyssey XT32 version.

The Marantz lists for twice the price that the Denon did, and there is 3-4years between them, yet they have the same internal gain structure? And the same volume-control range as well?

I’ll just say that I have my doubts and leave it at that. My current AVR gets a lot more audible “action” near the top of its scale, meaning its actual output is not linear with the display. My previous AVR, four years older, wasn’t like that. So I don’t put any faith in displayed volume settings being the same from one model to the next, even with the same brand.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt