Need help/ advice on Marantz SR8012

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
The Denon 4520 was the flagship at the time of its release, and did retail for 2500 initially 6 years ago. It (the msrp) did vary afterwards. The 8012 has a newer feature set, granted. Marantz line tends to start with a higher msrp for similar feature set. MSRP is also only so meaninful, who pays list?

What is audible "action" near the top of the scale? You measured this to be not linear with displayed volume and these units used the same methods for calibration?

In any case they (the OP's units) should be equal enough via Audyssey calibration to be quite similar in volume rather than what is being described. What is curious if the additional tweaks to source level were made before Audyssey why it would have not adjusted for such, or perhaps clarification of exact setup and level adjustments might be in order.

The Marantz lists for twice the price that the Denon did, and there is 3-4years between them, yet they have the same internal gain structure? And the same volume-control range as well?

I’ll just say that I have my doubts and leave it at that. My current AVR gets a lot more audible “action” near the top of its scale, meaning its actual output is not linear with the display. My previous AVR, four years older, wasn’t like that. So I don’t put any faith in displayed volume settings being the same from one model to the next, even with the same brand.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
The Marantz lists for twice the price that the Denon did, and there is 3-4years between them, yet they have the same internal gain structure? And the same volume-control range as well?

I’ll just say that I have my doubts and leave it at that. My current AVR gets a lot more audible “action” near the top of its scale, meaning its actual output is not linear with the display. My previous AVR, four years older, wasn’t like that. So I don’t put any faith in displayed volume settings being the same from one model to the next, even with the same brand.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Wow, coming from you I am really surprised and I am saying this with respect. In the last 9-10 years, I went through the 10 years old AVR-4308, 7.5 years Marantz AV7005, 5.5 years old AV8801 and now the brand new AVR-X4400H. All of them produced 71-73 dB at volume 0 using the internal test tone with volume set to "0" on each of the 7 channels. Using separate calibration tones, it would get to around 85 dB (THX reference) at volume "0" as expected. For D&M AVRs such as the 4520, after running auto setup, the unit is supposed to be calibrated to produce 85 dB average from the main mic position with volume set to "0". The absolute and relative scale for the Denon AVR-4520CI and Marantz SR8012 are both 0-98 and -79.5 to 18 respectively. So even just looking at this single fact, there is no way the 25 to 30 dB different (-48 to -15/-10) to get the same "loud" spl. I can understand and accept a few dB, even 10 (reluctantly),but not 25 to 30.

The price difference is a moot point because your argument of different vintage, features (such as 2 more amp channels for the Marantz) would then become totally relevant. Still, you are incorrect to say the Marantz lists for twice the price..

Fact is, the AVR-4520CI was listed for $2499 at launch time (source soundandvision.com),and the SR8012 $2999, even without factoring the new tariff (not sure on this),inflation for 4-5 years, the additional amplifier channels, licensing fess for the new features (Apple Air 2, eARC, among others..). All these may not be relevant to the volume thing, but facts are facts..

Now I am going to leave it at that too as you wish. This post is less for a rebuttal:), more just info for the OP. I also agreed with you on one pint, that if it sounds good, just turn it up... but I am a curious person so I hope he will come back with his findings. For now, I suspect he might have somehow set the mute level to -20 dB, and have it set to always on when power is turned on. Regardless, the remaining puzzle is, as HD mentioned, -48 on his Denon's volume should not be "loud" unless the OP's definition of loud is very different from mine, and/or the 4520 was hooked up to a source of very high output level.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
The Denon 4520 was the flagship at the time of its release, and did retail for 2500 initially 6 years ago. It (the msrp) did vary afterwards. The 8012 has a newer feature set, granted. Marantz line tends to start with a higher msrp for similar feature set. MSRP is also only so meaninful, who pays list?

What is audible "action" near the top of the scale? You measured this to be not linear with displayed volume and these units used the same methods for calibration?

In any case they (the OP's units) should be equal enough via Audyssey calibration to be quite similar in volume rather than what is being described. What is curious if the additional tweaks to source level were made before Audyssey why it would have not adjusted for such, or perhaps clarification of exact setup and level adjustments might be in order.
You beat me to it this time, now we are even!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Well then, just turn it up. What’s the problem with doing that? As long as you can ultimately get the same SPL in the room that you were before, what difference does the number on the display mean?

I had the same "issue," if one wants to call it that, with my current AVR vs. the one that came before it, both top-of-the-line flagship models. The former "operates" much closer to the top of the volume scale (digital-readout speaking) than the previous one. I though it was a bit peculiar, but not enough to lose any sleep over. It is what it is, no big deal. In day-to-day operation it works fine.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Well there is a problem and its called gain structure. The problem is Audyssey and that reference level to make that ghastly Dynamic Eq work.

When I did my tests then it reduced pretty much all channels by 13.5 db. So in order to get the correct volume you had to advance it to the point were S/N was degraded. Also have have found for years when gain structure is not correct it makes for a curiously uninvolving soundscape.


Fortunately I have no need of Audyssey as it ruins the sound of my system.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
OP, more info for you, from reliable sources..

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212341023-Adjust-speaker-levels-after-calibration-

  • Subramani Iyer
    January 02, 2013 11:42
    Hi Chris,

    I recently set up Audyssey Pro on my Denon 4520 and found the subwoofer level to be set too high by Pro at -5.5 db. So I manually changed this to -11.5 db after the calibration. Does this affect the Pro calibration in any way?

    Thanks,

    Subu
  • 0

    Audyssey LabsJanuary 02, 2013 12:06
    Audyssey sets the speaker and sub levels so that (1) they play at the same level as each other and (2) they play at film reference when you set the volume control at 0 dB.
    If you have a preference for different levels then it's fine to change them. The room correction filters are not affected by this change.

https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/how-to-manually-level-match-speakers

Keep in mind while the above should be applicable in most cases, it may not, if for some unlikely scenarios, your AVR/AVP ran out of room (level adjustments) during calibration. Also, if you check it with a spl meter, such as the popular Radio Shack 33-2050, 33-2055, at master volume 0 using the internal test tone, you may not get exactly 75 dB, but in my experience it would likely be within 5 dB, usually lower. There are several possible reasons that Audyssey FAQ covered multiple times in the past, such as the calibration of the not too accurate RS meter, difference in mic positions during calibration relative to the RS spl meter etc.
 
A

Audio-A

Enthusiast
Hi all!

Well, after all of your overwhelming responses... I mean that in a great way! Thank you all very much for all your responses and I learned quite a bit after reading the thread!

I found the Problem... it was the One Connect box that was holding this bad boy back!
The sound volume is back to what I was expecting and there seems to be a difference in sound quality... but I can’t 100% confirm that just yet. I don’t know if this is actually possible but there seems to be much more Head room now!
Although, I’m still dealing with some issues to get it completely set up ( ie, internet issues with my ISP, etc...
I can confirm that this unit is something special... at least to me right now!!

After I get it all set up and I’m done adjusting my settings, I’ll be reporting back soon to share my experience with you all!

I can’t say thank you enough for all the help Gents!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
a
Hi all!

Well, after all of your overwhelming responses... I mean that in a great way! Thank you all very much for all your responses and I learned quite a bit after reading the thread!

I found the Problem... it was the One Connect box that was holding this bad boy back!
The sound volume is back to what I was expecting and there seems to be a difference in sound quality... but I can’t 100% confirm that just yet. I don’t know if this is actually possible but there seems to be much more Head room now!
Although, I’m still dealing with some issues to get it completely set up ( ie, internet issues with my ISP, etc...
I can confirm that this unit is something special... at least to me right now!!

After I get it all set up and I’m done adjusting my settings, I’ll be reporting back soon to share my experience with you all!

I can’t say thank you enough for all the help Gents!
Glad you got it figured out, thought it would end up with the root being the level tweaks for that One Connect box.
 
D

DannyR

Audiophyte
Hi all!

Well, after all of your overwhelming responses... I mean that in a great way! Thank you all very much for all your responses and I learned quite a bit after reading the thread!

I found the Problem... it was the One Connect box that was holding this bad boy back!
The sound volume is back to what I was expecting and there seems to be a difference in sound quality... but I can’t 100% confirm that just yet. I don’t know if this is actually possible but there seems to be much more Head room now!
Although, I’m still dealing with some issues to get it completely set up ( ie, internet issues with my ISP, etc...
I can confirm that this unit is something special... at least to me right now!!

After I get it all set up and I’m done adjusting my settings, I’ll be reporting back soon to share my experience with you all!

I can’t say thank you enough for all the help Gents!
 
D

DannyR

Audiophyte
What’s the one connect box? I’m having the same problem! I have to turn volume all the way up!
 
A

Audio-A

Enthusiast
What’s the one connect box? I’m having the same problem! I have to turn volume all the way up!
Sorry bud
I don’t login often enough.
What I did is add a we bit of- Dynamic Volume compression
On light then offset by 5. Since I have reconfigured it many times, I forgot I had the problem bc it’s no longer present. Strange.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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