6 of the Best Flagship AV Receivers Compared for 2018!

[RK_aus_S]

Hi there

Very insteresting.
Personally, I prefer Denon Receivers because they have (along with Marantz) integrated Audyssey - in my experience the (most likely) reliable calibration system in this end consumer range.

I would like to know why Integra didn't make it to the list? Does anybody know why?

Regards
Roman

 

[Andrein]

I haven't heard anyone bragging about Pioneer's room correction or dynamic EQ.

I'm going to compare Audyssey Dynamic EQ vs Yamaha's YPAO Volume this weekend.

The Marantz AV7703 been reliable?

Would like to hear your thoughts. Ypao volume is one of the reasons i am keeping my a1070 for now.

 

[everettT]

Hi there

Very insteresting.
Personally, I prefer Denon Receivers because they have (along with Marantz) integrated Audyssey - in my experience the (most likely) reliable calibration system in this end consumer range.

I would like to know why Integra didn't make it to the list? Does anybody know why?

Regards
Roman

Because they included the onkyo instead, which for all purposes is the same minus a couple of CI features.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Would like to hear your thoughts. Ypao volume is one of the reasons i am keeping my a1070 for now.

What is your impression of YPAO Volume?

I got excited when I read some people say that YPAO Volume produced chest pounding real bass. One guy said YPAO produced even more bass than DEQ, but I think it just depends on how you set things up.

DEQ has 3 "Reference Offset" levels that changes the effect of DEQ. I don't see any mention of this type of adjustment with Yamaha, so I assume there is only ONE offset level, which is equivalent to the DEQ "Zero", which is the highest level.

In addition, we know that the effect or magnitude of YPAO Volume and DEQ is increased when the MASTER volume is set lower (like -40).

So if we manually increase the Speaker Levels (Trim Levels), that will force us to lower the Master Volume. Thus, increasing the Speaker Levels will increase the effect/magnitude of YPAO Volume and DEQ.

I'm truly hoping that YPAO Volume is the answer to DEQ!

For a few years I've been recommending Denon/Marantz/McIntosh because of DEQ, not because I was being a fanboy or "loyal" to the brands.

So if YPAO Volume is truly the answer to DEQ, that will change my game completely.

So I am excited to try it out hopefully tonight.

There's going to be another wedding party this weekend for one of my wife's cousins. So I don't know how much time I'll get to play around, but I'll try.

 

[PENG]

So if we manually increase the Speaker Levels (Trim Levels),that will force us to lower the Master Volume. Thus, increasing the Speaker Levels will increase the effect/magnitude of YPAO Volume and DEQ.

I am not sure if you can cheat like that because the DSP should know you have played with the levels after the calibration so it may consider it the same as increasing the volume. It actually should... If I have time I will run some REW plots to verify this.

By the way, I know you prefer bypass, but if you ever acquire XT32 you owe it to yourself to give it another chance. If you select the reference curve, it doesn't do much above 300 Hz anyway, and I suppose (not sure yet) the Editor App may allow it to EQ only below 300 Hz or lower.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am not sure if you can cheat like that because the DSP should know you have played with the levels after the calibration so it may consider it the same as increasing the volume. It actually should... If I have time I will run some REW plots to verify this.

By the way, I know you prefer bypass, but if you ever acquire XT32 you owe it to yourself to give it another chance. If you select the reference curve, it doesn't do much above 300 Hz anyway, and I suppose (not sure yet) the Editor App may allow it to EQ only below 300 Hz or lower.

Actually, Dr. Audyssey (what's his name, Chris-something) was the one who told us about manually increasing the trim levels to boost DEQ effect. And it works for sure!

I have tried XT32 when I tried another Denon (I think it was the 4520 or something). My "issue" with XT32 and XT is not that the sound is bad; it's just that I couldn't tell a difference between Bypass and Audyssey.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

What is your impression of YPAO Volume?

I got excited when I read some people say that YPAO Volume produced chest pounding real bass. One guy said YPAO produced even more bass than DEQ, but I think it just depends on how you set things up.

DEQ has 3 "Reference Offset" levels that changes the effect of DEQ. I don't see any mention of this type of adjustment with Yamaha, so I assume there is only ONE offset level, which is equivalent to the DEQ "Zero", which is the highest level.

In addition, we know that the effect or magnitude of YPAO Volume and DEQ is increased when the MASTER volume is set lower (like -40).

So if we manually increase the Speaker Levels (Trim Levels),that will force us to lower the Master Volume. Thus, increasing the Speaker Levels will increase the effect/magnitude of YPAO Volume and DEQ.

I'm truly hoping that YPAO Volume is the answer to DEQ!

For a few years I've been recommending Denon/Marantz/McIntosh because of DEQ, not because I was being a fanboy or "loyal" to the brands.

So if YPAO Volume is truly the answer to DEQ, that will change my game completely.

So I am excited to try it out hopefully tonight.

There's going to be another wedding party this weekend for one of my wife's cousins. So I don't know how much time I'll get to play around, but I'll try.

I wonder how the Audyssey DEQ compares to the built in Outlaw Speaker EQ on their RR2160 2-channel receiver.

"The RR 2160’s unique speaker EQ circuit allows you to add an additional 6dB (about one-half octave) of bass at and below a specific frequency to increase the low end performance of traditional bookshelf speakers. Particularly with sealed (rather than ported) designs with eight or ten inch mid-range drivers, this circuit helps compensate for the roll-off at the low end of the speaker’s range. It is not generally recommended for use when a separate subwoofer is connected."

 

[everettT]

I wonder how the Audyssey DEQ compares to the built in Outlaw Speaker EQ on their RR2160 2-channel receiver.

"The RR 2160’s unique speaker EQ circuit allows you to add an additional 6dB (about one-half octave) of bass at and below a specific frequency to increase the low end performance of traditional bookshelf speakers. Particularly with sealed (rather than ported) designs with eight or ten inch mid-range drivers, this circuit helps compensate for the roll-off at the low end of the speaker’s range. It is not generally recommended for use when a separate subwoofer is connected."

8 or 10" midranges?

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

8 or 10" midranges?

I think they're referring to woofers.

 

[M Code]

Actually, Dr. Audyssey (what's his name, Chris-something) was the one who told us about manually increasing the trim levels to boost DEQ effect. And it works for sure!

I have tried XT32 when I tried another Denon (I think it was the 4520 or something). My "issue" with XT32 and XT is not that the sound is bad; it's just that I couldn't tell a difference between Bypass and Audyssey.

U are referring to Chris Kyriakakis 1 of the founders of Audyssey. Chris is the department head @ USC for Electrical Engineering. We have known Chris for many years... Regarding the performance of Audyssey, we have found that its setup to be very crucial so we actually use a 15" extension rod and tripod. This elevates the microphone so its pickup pattern is significantly different compared to a lower position. Since we sell/install all of the major brands we have experience for each of the Room EQ schemes. So I will withhold my personal comments here since they will be biased due to my experience working with certain major brands for their development of these and certain patents..... Regarding the various compression schemes my favorite here is Dolby Volume.. Takes some tweaking for setup but its end-result is the most satisfying to my ears...

Just my $0.02...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Regarding the various compression schemes my favorite here is Dolby Volume.. Takes some tweaking for setup but its end-result is the most satisfying to my ears...

I'm sure everyone has his personal favorite EQ.

I know of 2 ways of tweaking Audyssey DEQ (per Chris K @ Audyssey) - Reference Offset and Trim Levels.

With YPAO, I think the only tweaking will be the Trim Levels.

What are ways to tweak Dolby Volume Leveler? I assume you are talking about the Dolby Volume Leveler, not the Dolby Volume?

Dolby Volume itself is the Dynamic Range Compression similar to Audyssey Dynamic Volume and YPAO Adaptive Dynamic Range Control (ADRC).

I love to boost the bass, but there is no way I would want to COMPRESS the dynamic range by using Dolby Volume, Audyssey Dynamic Volume, or YPAO ADRC.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I wonder how the Audyssey DEQ compares to the built in Outlaw Speaker EQ on their RR2160 2-channel receiver.

"The RR 2160’s unique speaker EQ circuit allows you to add an additional 6dB (about one-half octave) of bass at and below a specific frequency to increase the low end performance of traditional bookshelf speakers. Particularly with sealed (rather than ported) designs with eight or ten inch mid-range drivers, this circuit helps compensate for the roll-off at the low end of the speaker’s range. It is not generally recommended for use when a separate subwoofer is connected."

I don't know, but I think Audyssey DEQ and hopefully YPAO Volume and Dolby Volume Leveler are more involved than just boosting the bass at a certain frequency, but I could be wrong. I hope it involves Equalizing the bass as well, not just simply boosting the bass.

I've tried a few times to boost the heck out of the bass by making my subs really hot (+6dB, +10dB), but the result is absolutely NOTHING like DEQ. The result was just too much bass.

I feel like Audyssey DEQ seems to be a lot smarter and selective when boosting and equalizing the bass. Hopefully YPAO Volume is the same - Equalizing and Boosting the bass smartly and selectively.

 

[PENG]

Actually, Dr. Audyssey (what's his name, Chris-something) was the one who told us about manually increasing the trim levels to boost DEQ effect. And it works for sure!

Thanks, if he said so then I won't bother measuring. That could be a good thing because you can then fine tune the effects to you liking.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks, if he said so then I won't bother measuring. That could be a good thing because you can then fine tune the effects to you liking.

That was exactly Chris' point. For most people, the 3 offset points are good enough. Otherwise, you can fine-tune the effects of DEQ since some people complain that it's either too much or too little with the 3 standard offset levels.

Now you know why I manually increase the trim levels from 75dB (set by Audyssey) to 80dB - to increase DEQ.

I'm hoping that YPAO Volume is the same way (fine-tune with trims).

I'm wondering if Dolby Volume Leveler in those Anthem AVP/AVRs is the same.

 

[rom3]

... and I suppose (not sure yet) the Editor App may allow it to EQ only below 300 Hz or lower.

I can confirm the MultiEQ app does allow one to limit the frequency range for each speaker "pair" (front, surrrounds, subs, etc.). I use this feature on my Denon X4400H. This week, I have it limiting the "correction" for the font L/R speakers to 400Hz and below with great results. The app makes it simple and fast to try different cutoffs. I've tried various cutoffs, 200Hz, 300Hz, 600Hz, etc. Just takes about 1 minute to re-upload the corrections to the AVR. I switch back and forth between full band correction, limited to xxxHz and below and custom curve edit. The "flat" curve is always available on the AVR as is L/R bypass and off.

 

[Andrein]

What is your impression of YPAO Volume?

I got excited when I read some people say that YPAO Volume produced chest pounding real bass. One guy said YPAO produced even more bass than DEQ, but I think it just depends on how you set things up.

DEQ has 3 "Reference Offset" levels that changes the effect of DEQ. I don't see any mention of this type of adjustment with Yamaha, so I assume there is only ONE offset level, which is equivalent to the DEQ "Zero", which is the highest level.

In addition, we know that the effect or magnitude of YPAO Volume and DEQ is increased when the MASTER volume is set lower (like -40).

So if we manually increase the Speaker Levels (Trim Levels), that will force us to lower the Master Volume. Thus, increasing the Speaker Levels will increase the effect/magnitude of YPAO Volume and DEQ.

I'm truly hoping that YPAO Volume is the answer to DEQ!

For a few years I've been recommending Denon/Marantz/McIntosh because of DEQ, not because I was being a fanboy or "loyal" to the brands.

So if YPAO Volume is truly the answer to DEQ, that will change my game completely.

So I am excited to try it out hopefully tonight.

There's going to be another wedding party this weekend for one of my wife's cousins. So I don't know how much time I'll get to play around, but I'll try.

Didn't play with master volume trim but the default ypao volume works very well for my room. Bass is not boomy and that is with +5db to what ypao calibration tells me. I previously had +6-8db but with ypao volume it is too much.

I know many people say ypao volume makes bass boomy. But i guess it depends a lot on the room.

What i like is that now i can listen at lower levels, speak to someone and still feel the bass while sitting on my sofa.

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW here are the two Audyssey articles I think ADTG is referring to as to using trim levels to tweak DEQ
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347883-Speaker-Trim-Levels
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

 

[M Code]

I'm sure everyone has his personal favorite EQ.

I know of 2 ways of tweaking Audyssey DEQ (per Chris K @ Audyssey) - Reference Offset and Trim Levels.

With YPAO, I think the only tweaking will be the Trim Levels.

What are ways to tweak Dolby Volume Leveler? I assume you are talking about the Dolby Volume Leveler, not the Dolby Volume?

Dolby Volume itself is the Dynamic Range Compression similar to Audyssey Dynamic Volume and YPAO Adaptive Dynamic Range Control (ADRC).

I love to boost the bass, but there is no way I would want to COMPRESS the dynamic range by using Dolby Volume, Audyssey Dynamic Volume, or YPAO ADRC.

Dolby Volume has (2) parts, 1 is the Modeler and the other 1 is the Leveler....
The Modeler deals with the perceived dynamic range and the Leveler adjusts for EQ loudness curves.
The Volume, Modeler resolves volume inconsistencies such as, those between input sources, or broadcast stations. When the playback volume level is adjusted, Volume Modeler compensates for how people perceive loudness. Volume Modeler adjusts audio using a psychoacoustic model based on the equal loudness/Fletcher‐Munson curves. The Volume Leveler, continually measures the perceptual loudness of audio content and dynamically applies multiband gain modifications so that the perceived loudness of all audio content remains consistent. This allows audio from multiple sources (for example, from different television channels, or audio coming from different external inputs on a product, such as a DVD player or a gaming console) to have the same perceived loudness level without the user having to manually adjust the volume.
I have much more technical info on Dolby Volume, however note that it has been some significant revs/upgrades in recent times for Dolby Volume as to support the growing category of soundbars & HD displays. However this info is proprietary and I am under NDA with Dolby so I cannot distribute or post this.

Just my $0.02....

 

[gene]

I'm sure everyone has his personal favorite EQ.

I know of 2 ways of tweaking Audyssey DEQ (per Chris K @ Audyssey) - Reference Offset and Trim Levels.

With YPAO, I think the only tweaking will be the Trim Levels.

What are ways to tweak Dolby Volume Leveler? I assume you are talking about the Dolby Volume Leveler, not the Dolby Volume?

Dolby Volume itself is the Dynamic Range Compression similar to Audyssey Dynamic Volume and YPAO Adaptive Dynamic Range Control (ADRC).

I love to boost the bass, but there is no way I would want to COMPRESS the dynamic range by using Dolby Volume, Audyssey Dynamic Volume, or YPAO ADRC.

YPAO EQ results are fully editable via the OSD or preferably by logging into the receiver via a browser like I show in my CX-A5100 review:

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Dolby Volume has (2) parts, 1 is the Modeler and the other 1 is the Leveler....
The Modeler deals with the perceived dynamic range and the Leveler adjusts for EQ loudness curves.
The Volume, Modeler resolves volume inconsistencies such as, those between input sources, or broadcast stations. When the playback volume level is adjusted, Volume Modeler compensates for how people perceive loudness. Volume Modeler adjusts audio using a psychoacoustic model based on the equal loudness/Fletcher‐Munson curves. The Volume Leveler, continually measures the perceptual loudness of audio content and dynamically applies multiband gain modifications so that the perceived loudness of all audio content remains consistent. This allows audio from multiple sources (for example, from different television channels, or audio coming from different external inputs on a product, such as a DVD player or a gaming console) to have the same perceived loudness level without the user having to manually adjust the volume.
I have much more technical info on Dolby Volume, however note that it has been some significant revs/upgrades in recent times for Dolby Volume as to support the growing category of soundbars & HD displays. However this info is proprietary and I am under NDA with Dolby so I cannot distribute or post this.

Just my $0.02....

Well, that sounds very vague, which is not surprising.

The main words I'm hearing are "Loudness" and "Dynamic Range", the 2 words I don't want to hear.

I don't want to increase the perceived loudness or decrease the dynamic range to make that happen. This is what Audyssey Dynamic VOLUME and YPAO Adaptive Dynamic Range Control are doing. And this is what I most definitely turn OFF!

So if that's what Dolby Volume Modeler/Leveler is about, then I'm not looking forward to it.

Oh no, I want to boost the perceived bass where it counts and when it counts. That's the salient thing I feel I'm getting most from Audyssey Dynamic EQ.