Wattage vs. Loudness

[dudo670]

Hi, new here to the site. I'm a big music listener and somewhat of an audiophile, so I like to look around with speakers. However, I really don't understand a lot of the technical aspects of speakers. I've been in the market for a PA system that I can listen to with friends where we can have loud music but for a reasonable price.
So, my question is, holding all else equal (say, for instance, you have two speaker systems that are the exact same model), does more watts = louder speakers? Say you have a speaker system that is identical, but one version is 50 watts, one version is 100 watts, and one version is 200 watts. Or is it more complicated than simply supplying more power? Thanks.

 

[Verdinut]

The power rating of a typical speaker system normally indicates the maximum wattage that this speaker will be able to sustain for an instantaneous peak before being damaged.
The loudness attained (Sound Pressure Level) depends on the sensitivity of the speaker and the power fed into it. The more efficient driver will output more SPL for a certain wattage than the less sensitive one. For a PA speaker, you have to look for speakers with sensitivity of at least 95 dB for a 2.83 volt input at 1 meter.

https://www.lifewire.com/loudness-and-amp-power-3135081

 

[Verdinut]

Why would you want a PA speaker ? If it's for home use, speakers with a high sensitivity exist. One such speaker brand is Klipsch. They make floor standing and bookshelf speakers using horn drivers for the mid and high frequencies. I would recommend them. Another good brand would be JBL.
Before committing to the purchase of speakers, it's always preferable to listen to them at the store, but even better if you have the opportunity to take them home and return them within a period delay if you don't like them.

 

[everettT]

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
There are a couple of pro audio speakers that measure well for home use if needed. Subwoofers would be required with most. Do you have a budget?

 

[PENG]

Say you have a speaker system that is identical, but one version is 50 watts, one version is 100 watts, and one version is 200 watts. Or is it more complicated than simply supplying more power? Thanks.

If the speaker systems are identical, their power requirement or handling specifications should be the same so I don't understand why there are versions of 50, 100 and 200 watts. Are those 50, 100, and 200 watts the rated outputs of 3 different amplifiers. If they are, then in general the more powerful amp should be able to make the same speakers sound louder as long as the speakers are designed to handle the highest output, that is, 200 watts in your example. Even then, it depends on your actual need. If say, at the loudest level you ever listen to from where you sit the speakers only requires a few watts, then the power not used will obviously not make a difference, meaning, the 50 watt amp will let you play the speakers just as loud.

 

[highfigh]

Hi, new here to the site. I'm a big music listener and somewhat of an audiophile, so I like to look around with speakers. However, I really don't understand a lot of the technical aspects of speakers. I've been in the market for a PA system that I can listen to with friends where we can have loud music but for a reasonable price.
So, my question is, holding all else equal (say, for instance, you have two speaker systems that are the exact same model), does more watts = louder speakers? Say you have a speaker system that is identical, but one version is 50 watts, one version is 100 watts, and one version is 200 watts. Or is it more complicated than simply supplying more power? Thanks.

Do you want to listen at high volume outdoors, or indoors? Why are you looking for a PA system- will you be playing instruments through it, as well?

PA systems are rarely good for listening to music- they don't sound the same as a good home audio system and they aren't made for listening to pre-recorded material. Yes, you can play pre-recorded material through a PA, but the sound is far from the same- a PA is designed to cover a larger area and sometimes, it's designed to cover a very specific area, not just blast away at high volume.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

More power equals more volume at a given distance in a given room or environment.

The thing you will come up against, though, is the logarithmic nature of both loudness (Sound Pressure Level, or SPL) in air, and electrical power.

The short answer is you need 10x the power to provide an observed doubling of volume. So a 100w amp is only twice as loud as a 10w amp. You can see how this goes ... to gain another doubling in SPL from the 100w amp you now need 1000w. So a 200w amp is not even twice as loud as a 50w amp.

If you like it loud, seek out high efficiency speakers. It is much cheaper to find, say speakers with efficiency of 94 db/2.83v/1m versus ones that are rated 91db/2.83v/1m ... a 3dB difference. Paired with a 10w amp that higher efficiency speaker (94dB~) plays as loud as the lower efficiency speaker and a 100w amp.

Since more power costs generally considerably more money, at least as long as quality is comparable, you can see that the best way to save money is to avoid low efficiency speakers.

In fact that is one of the issues people face when building a system, and is not always properly considered ... you need to determine what your speakers are going to be before you can determine what power you will require in an amplifier. This makes certain combinations better options versus just dividing your budget on a dollar basis.

 

[dudo670]

Thanks for all the responses. Maybe I am not looking for the right thing then. I'm looking for something that can fill up a room ~30ftx12ft without blowing it out, mostly to be used for listening to music, without spending over $300 whether that be buying new or used. Maybe this information will help.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

30x12' (360 ft2, although you need the ceiling height as well to properly figure out your SPL) is a large room. With a $300 budget, you are going to be shopping the used market to seek out bargains. Good luck.

 

[KEW]

Thanks for all the responses. Maybe I am not looking for the right thing then. I'm looking for something that can fill up a room ~30ftx12ft without blowing it out, mostly to be used for listening to music, without spending over $300 whether that be buying new or used. Maybe this information will help.

I am pretty sure nothing will compete with this deal on a open-box pair of Klipsch RP-160m for $299 from Acoustic Sound Design for meeting your criteria of efficiency, budget, and sound quality:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-RP-160M-WL-Walnut-Bookshelf-Speakers-Pair-OPEN-BOX-/222977205181?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Mine can easily run me out of my 16X24X14 room using a 50WPC AVR (Marantz NR-1604) driving just the pair of RP-160m's.

You haven't mentioned whether or not you have an AVR, but to recommend a budget AVR which would give you plenty of power, I would recommend this refurbished Denon 720 for $129:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrs530bt/denon-avr-s530bt-5.2-ch-x-70-watts-bluetooth-a/v-receiver/1.html

The bass from these speakers will astound you and you will get by fine on traditional music (not Dub-step or Electronica for example); however, down the road, for HT especially, I would recommend either one of these (I'd go with whichever costs less):
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-1200-12-120-watt-powered-subwoofer--300-629
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9723&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmPPYBRCgARIsALOziAMT1JcYeBoypSBfZiWUg5j1zuCcNsZRVFOaxdtSDzf3BjWxPMKihcwaAh-lEALw_wcB

Note that you need to go to the cart and enter your zip to find out shipping cost on the monoprice sub

Edit: to change link to the $299 deal, I accidentally posted to $349 price!

 

[dudo670]

I am pretty sure nothing will compete with this deal on

Mine can easily run me out of my 16X24X14 room using a 50WPC AVR (Marantz NR-1604) driving just the pair of RP-160m's.

You haven't mentioned whether or not you have an AVR, but to recommend a budget AVR which would give you plenty of power, I would recommend this refurbished Denon 720 for $129:


The bass from these speakers will astound you and you will get by fine on traditional music (not Dub-step or Electronica for example); however, down the road, for HT especially, I would recommend either one of these (I'd go with whichever costs less):


Note that you need to go to the cart and enter your zip to find out shipping cost on the monoprice sub

Edit: to change link to the $299 deal, I accidentally posted to $349 price!

Thanks a lot for all of this. I have an AVR (Pioneer VSX-522-K) but I am not sure if this would have enough power for the speakers. It says 110 watts output per channel for 5.1 and 80 and 140 watts per channel for direct energy in the manual. Not sure what to make of this

 

[KEW]

You are just planning to run stereo?

Either way, that AVR should be fine. The 80 WPC is standard FTC rating (2 channels with 0.08 THD and 20-20k frequency range into 8 Ohms).

The Direct Energy is what Pioneer is calling their specific refinement/implementation of Class D amplification.
Class D has had some issues in the past (including an earlier implementation by Pioneer that was a significant embarrassment to the company).

Modern implementations of Class D seem to have resolved the problems and Pioneer, especially, would not reintroduce it unless they had thoroughly tested it, so you are in good shape with that AVR!

 

[dudo670]

You are just planning to run stereo?

Either way, that AVR should be fine. The 80 WPC is standard FTC rating (2 channels with 0.08 THD and 20-20k frequency range into 8 Ohms).

The Direct Energy is what Pioneer is calling their specific refinement/implementation of Class D amplification.
Class D has had some issues in the past (including an earlier implementation by Pioneer that was a significant embarrassment to the company).

Modern implementations of Class D seem to have resolved the problems and Pioneer, especially, would not reintroduce it unless they had thoroughly tested it, so you are in good shape with that AVR!

For now, just planning on running stereo and possibly adding one of the subwoofers you recommended. However, for $40 if I could get a good condition Bose powered acoustimass 9 subwoofer, would this be as good as the subwoofers you linked?

 

[KEW]

I tried to find some technical information on the Bose acoustimass 9 subwoofer, but could not. As a general rule Bose products are way overpriced and I have never heard of any of their subs being anything worth keeping. Basically, you're buying their name and maybe a little bit of speaker to go with it.

 

[everettT]

I tried to find some technical information on the Bose acoustimass 9 subwoofer, but could not. As a general rule Bose products are way overpriced and I have never heard of any of their subs being anything worth keeping. Basically, you're buying their name and maybe a little bit of speaker to go with it.

http://nyet.org/bose/
A newer model but it makes the point..

 

[charmerci]

Here - for a little more (Borrow the $20!) you can get these and not really have to worry about a sub.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-RP-280F-WL-Walnut-Floorstanding-Speaker-CHIP-DENT/222994731125?_trkparms=aid=444000&algo=SOI.DEFAULT&ao=1&asc=44040&meid=25f4b152d50746ad8b0618d90cbe7ad1&pid=100752&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=222977205181&itm=222994731125&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982

 

[KEW]

Here - for a little more (Borrow the $20!) you can get these and not really have to worry about a sub.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-RP-280F-WL-Walnut-Floorstanding-Speaker-CHIP-DENT/222994731125?_trkparms=aid=444000&algo=SOI.DEFAULT&ao=1&asc=44040&meid=25f4b152d50746ad8b0618d90cbe7ad1&pid=100752&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=222977205181&itm=222994731125&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982

That is a good price on that speaker, but I suspect that is for a single speaker rather than a pair!

However, I did not see anything in the description indicating either way.
If it is a pair, I'd get one for my HT today!

 

[dudo670]

That is a good price on that speaker, but I suspect that is for a single speaker rather than a pair!

However, I did not see anything in the description indicating either way.
If it is a pair, I'd get one for my HT today!

Say I was going to get this floorstanding speaker instead of the pair, would it still work with the aforementioned AVR? Thanks.

 

[KEW]

Say I was going to get this floorstanding speaker instead of the pair, would it still work with the aforementioned AVR? Thanks.

Absolutely!
I know it is counter-intuitive, but as a general rule, a floor-stander is more efficient than a Bookshelf speaker. Specifically, Klipsch rates the RP-160m bookshelf at 96dB, the RP-260f at 97dB, and the RP-280f at 98dB. This means for a given amount of power, the 280 will play one dB louder than the 260 which is one dB louder than the 160.
Also note that the Klipsch ratings are "in a typical room" and incorporate room gain which inflates the value by about 3 dB. This is nothing to be concerned about, in the least. Klipsch are still more efficient than 95+% of speakers and will get loud with little power! However, if you are using a calculator to verify your power requirements, subtract 3 from the value you enter for speaker sensitivity/efficiency.

I will advise you that as long as you intend to use subwoofers, saving the money from buying bookshelf instead of towers and putting it into better bookshelfs speakers or better sub(s) is almost always beneficial.
That said, if you just want the look/aesthetic of towers in your room, and are willing to pay for it, I get it!