Stuck in a Denon X6400H / X4400H Dilemma => Your advice please

[panteragstk]

I have the x4300h in an Atmos 7.4.4 setup and it works very well. I was in the same boat considering the x6300h, but am glad I saved the money. I got mine new for $700 and picked up a little 2ch amp for the extra height channel.

I just got a copy of Saving Private Ryan that has an Atmos track and it's pretty fantastic. With the way my system is set up I can't really tell where the sound is coming from, only that it's there. I'm glad I made the change from 7.2.

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks for the inputs gents. I know most don't seem to be a fan of B Stock. They are returns for any reason to any Denon or Marantz Dealer (Defective, didn't like it, too big for the cabinet, wife went crazy, etc., etc). I don't know if I agree that there is more risk there than in A stock. Everytime you light up an electronic device there's a chance of failure. But as the end of the model year is near, maybe I can cash in on a clearance sale for A stock.

Panteragstk, thanks for posting. (But 4 SUBS! OMG!) Can you advise what "little 2ch amp for the extra height channel" you used? According to Gene, in his most recent review of the Marantz 8012 he said you really don't need more than about 50-60 watts for each of the height channels, as they are really just for effects. Have you played an Atmos movie in 7.4.2 with just your x4300h ? if so did having the front ceiling speakers sound better solo than just the rears? Does "regular" Blu Ray movies sound better using DTS Neural:X. Have you tried a concert disk with an HD Codec and simulated 3D sound? How did that sound?

Thanks again for the inputs folks. More comments are welcomed.

 

[panteragstk]

Thanks for the inputs gents. I know most don't seem to be a fan of B Stock. They are returns for any reason to any Denon or Marantz Dealer (Defective, didn't like it, too big for the cabinet, wife went crazy, etc., etc). I don't know if I agree that there is more risk there than in A stock. Everytime you light up an electronic device there's a chance of failure. But as the end of the model year is near, maybe I can cash in on a clearance sale for A stock.

Panteragstk, thanks for posting. (But 4 SUBS! OMG!) Can you advise what "little 2ch amp for the extra height channel" you used? According to Gene, in his most recent review of the Marantz 8012 he said you really don't need more than about 50-60 watts for each of the height channels, as they are really just for effects. Have you played an Atmos movie in 7.4.2 with just your x4300h ? if so did having the front ceiling speakers sound better solo than just the rears? Does "regular" Blu Ray movies sound better using DTS Neural:X. Have you tried a concert disk with an HD Codec and simulated 3D sound? How did that sound?

Thanks again for the inputs folks. More comments are welcomed.

I've done all of those things. I use Dolby Surround up-mixer instead of DTS Neural X because I think it sounds a bit better. I have quite a few Atmos movies including Roger Watters The Wall that has an Atmos track. Concerts sound great. I've also got a few Steven Wilson blu-rays that I've played and those sound great as well.

If I were to do one set of height speakers it'd be the front height for sure. 7.1 isn't really that much of an upgrade pas 5.1 unless you play games, then it is a huge upgrade. I think 5.1.4 would be preferred over 7.1.2, but that's just me. I also have two rows of seating so rear height does make a difference in my room.

The amp is an Audio Source AMP100VS.

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks for the inputs panteragstk and all.

I'm trying to wait for clearance on the AVR-X4400H rather than buy B stock now. I think it must be getting close. Gibby's has the "Denon AVR-X4400H In-Command Receiver with HEOS Technology – Minor Carton Damage 3 YEAR WARRANTY 3 LEFT" for a few weeks now, but the price is $1099.27 whereas the B stock is 979.27 (all price in Canadian dollars => 1099.27 is presently less than $850 USD for reference).

Gibby's 11.2 HT Receivers

If they added free shipping and got it to a $999.27 for Father's day, I think I'd jump.

Has anyone seen a better deal than this? Maybe I should wait for Canada Day or 4th of July...

 

[PENG]

They have the brand new X3400H for C$749.99 now, that means the X4400H will soon drop to C$1099 brand new in normal box. For 999, I think you will have to wait longer.

 

[-Jim-]

Peng,

I wonder if they've already hit the floor pricewise and I'm kidding myself they'll go lower. I just checked again no change for Father's Day weekend.

 

[PENG]

Peng,

I wonder if they've already hit the floor pricewise and I'm kidding myself they'll go lower. I just checked again no change for Father's Day weekend.

Jim, I have followed BB's price for years, my educated guess is that it has hit the floor when you consider the price matched $744.99 for the X3400H. However, there is a good chance that by or after Christmas you may be able to get the X4400H for $899-$999 depending on their inventory level at the time so not a sure bet.

If you are sure 7 channel is the highest you would go within a 3-5 years window then at this point the 3400 is a really good deal. Brand new in a seal box does provide some peace of mind, not that there is much concern with the refurbished.

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks for your opinion Peng. We've recently completed a major renovation (light years over budget!) of our main floor but there is still a field of boxes in the Games Room where this system will reside. See WAF => A new beginning? Where should one start?

I've installed 4 in-ceiling speakers, and 7 at / near ear level as per Dolby Atmos specifications. Even though I never heard immersive sound, I took the plunge as to miss the opportunity with the ceiling down would be folly. Now with the Speakers in place (even though I'm seriously looking at replacing my ancient front 3) the itch to light it up seems to increase every day.

However, my practicality side pulls me back (I wasn't the driver for the renovation - my Misses was...), as most of that system will be used for Cable TV, Music, Blu Ray Concerts (If I can keep getting good ones to buy), a large backlog of 3D Superhero Movies my son & I collected but haven't watched; and not that many standard Blu Ray Movies (which is where Atmos and DTS-X reside). The present Denon AVR-S900W receiver is working just fine now in 7.1 and it's hard to imagine the real impact of immersive sound. I heard a terrible install at a local Best Buy, but that's the only one I've found.

Currently in the Games Room, besides the sea of boxes, is one Lazyboy recliner (in the sweet spot), the system and a 55 inch Samsung 3D LED LCD TV. I do have the Audyssey Mic on my tripod, an SPL meter, and the normal pile of remotes.

If I could turn off my practical side, I'd just suck it up and go for the X6400H and be done with it. If I go X4400H, the only compromise I see is the lack of amplification for two channels, and with the money save I can migrate to 3 CCB-8s to replace the fronts, and feel good about it. The Denon APP will allow me to setup a couple of profiles so switching between say 7.1.2 and 5.1.4 won't be hard. Without the benefit of hearing 7.1.4 versus those other configurations, I don't think there will be a substantial difference in this room. I think adding a separate amp will be simple later if I get the itch, but another Sub would probably be more impactful.

 

[everettT]

Thanks for your opinion Peng. We've recently completed a major renovation (light years over budget!) of our main floor but there is still a field of boxes in the Games Room where this system will reside. See WAF => A new beginning? Where should one start?

I've installed 4 in-ceiling speakers, and 7 at / near ear level as per Dolby Atmos specifications. Even though I never heard immersive sound, I took the plunge as to miss the opportunity with the ceiling down would be folly. Now with the Speakers in place (even though I'm seriously looking at replacing my ancient front 3) the itch to light it up seems to increase every day.

However, my practicality side pulls me back (I wasn't the driver for the renovation - my Misses was...), as most of that system will be used for Cable TV, Music, Blu Ray Concerts (If I can keep getting good ones to buy), a large backlog of 3D Superhero Movies my son & I collected but haven't watched; and not that many standard Blu Ray Movies (which is where Atmos and DTS-X reside). The present Denon AVR-S900W receiver is working just fine now in 7.1 and it's hard to imagine the real impact of immersive sound. I heard a terrible install at a local Best Buy, but that's the only one I've found.

Currently in the Games Room, besides the sea of boxes, is one Lazyboy recliner (in the sweet spot), the system and a 55 inch Samsung 3D LED LCD TV. I do have the Audyssey Mic on my tripod, an SPL meter, and the normal pile of remotes.

If I could turn off my practical side, I'd just suck it up and go for the X6400H and be done with it. If I go X4400H, the only compromise I see is the lack of amplification for two channels, and with the money save I can migrate to 3 CCB-8s to replace the fronts, and feel good about it. The Denon APP will allow me to setup a couple of profiles so switching between say 7.1.2 and 5.1.4 won't be hard. Without the benefit of hearing 7.1.4 versus those other configurations, I don't think there will be a substantial difference in this room. I think adding a separate amp will be simple later if I get the itch, but another Sub would probably be more impactful.

Contact @DigitalDawn for the best price, IIRC she was selling the 6400 for $1199

 

[PENG]

Contact @DigitalDawn for the best price, IIRC she was selling the 6400 for $1199

I think Jim is in Canada.

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks but wasn't that the 6300?

It's now sold out => see Denon AVR-X6300H

I assume that's in US Dollars which is about $1600 CAN.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for your opinion Peng. We've recently completed a major renovation (light years over budget!) of our main floor but there is still a field of boxes in the Games Room where this system will reside. See WAF => A new beginning? Where should one start?

I've installed 4 in-ceiling speakers, and 7 at / near ear level as per Dolby Atmos specifications. Even though I never heard immersive sound, I took the plunge as to miss the opportunity with the ceiling down would be folly. Now with the Speakers in place (even though I'm seriously looking at replacing my ancient front 3) the itch to light it up seems to increase every day.

However, my practicality side pulls me back (I wasn't the driver for the renovation - my Misses was...), as most of that system will be used for Cable TV, Music, Blu Ray Concerts (If I can keep getting good ones to buy), a large backlog of 3D Superhero Movies my son & I collected but haven't watched; and not that many standard Blu Ray Movies (which is where Atmos and DTS-X reside). The present Denon AVR-S900W receiver is working just fine now in 7.1 and it's hard to imagine the real impact of immersive sound. I heard a terrible install at a local Best Buy, but that's the only one I've found.

Currently in the Games Room, besides the sea of boxes, is one Lazyboy recliner (in the sweet spot), the system and a 55 inch Samsung 3D LED LCD TV. I do have the Audyssey Mic on my tripod, an SPL meter, and the normal pile of remotes.

If I could turn off my practical side, I'd just suck it up and go for the X6400H and be done with it. If I go X4400H, the only compromise I see is the lack of amplification for two channels, and with the money save I can migrate to 3 CCB-8s to replace the fronts, and feel good about it. The Denon APP will allow me to setup a couple of profiles so switching between say 7.1.2 and 5.1.4 won't be hard. Without the benefit of hearing 7.1.4 versus those other configurations, I don't think there will be a substantial difference in this room. I think adding a separate amp will be simple later if I get the itch, but another Sub would probably be more impactful.

My practical side convinced me to upgrade from my AV8801 to the x3400h, just got BB to price match to 749 an hour ago.

 

[-Jim-]

Congrats! It'll be good to hear how you like your new X3400H.

 

[snakeeyes]

Thanks for your opinion Peng. We've recently completed a major renovation (light years over budget!) of our main floor but there is still a field of boxes in the Games Room where this system will reside. See WAF => A new beginning? Where should one start?

I've installed 4 in-ceiling speakers, and 7 at / near ear level as per Dolby Atmos specifications. Even though I never heard immersive sound, I took the plunge as to miss the opportunity with the ceiling down would be folly. Now with the Speakers in place (even though I'm seriously looking at replacing my ancient front 3) the itch to light it up seems to increase every day.

However, my practicality side pulls me back (I wasn't the driver for the renovation - my Misses was...), as most of that system will be used for Cable TV, Music, Blu Ray Concerts (If I can keep getting good ones to buy), a large backlog of 3D Superhero Movies my son & I collected but haven't watched; and not that many standard Blu Ray Movies (which is where Atmos and DTS-X reside). The present Denon AVR-S900W receiver is working just fine now in 7.1 and it's hard to imagine the real impact of immersive sound. I heard a terrible install at a local Best Buy, but that's the only one I've found.

Currently in the Games Room, besides the sea of boxes, is one Lazyboy recliner (in the sweet spot), the system and a 55 inch Samsung 3D LED LCD TV. I do have the Audyssey Mic on my tripod, an SPL meter, and the normal pile of remotes.

If I could turn off my practical side, I'd just suck it up and go for the X6400H and be done with it. If I go X4400H, the only compromise I see is the lack of amplification for two channels, and with the money save I can migrate to 3 CCB-8s to replace the fronts, and feel good about it. The Denon APP will allow me to setup a couple of profiles so switching between say 7.1.2 and 5.1.4 won't be hard. Without the benefit of hearing 7.1.4 versus those other configurations, I don't think there will be a substantial difference in this room. I think adding a separate amp will be simple later if I get the itch, but another Sub would probably be more impactful.

Maybe you should just pull the trigger on the Denon and call it Fathers Day.
A sub upgrade should definitely be the priority after you get your receiver. The right sub in the right size for your room, will bring the wow factor. I love my Rythmik subwoofer. HSU and SVS are good choices too.

 

[PENG]

Congrats! It'll be good to hear how you like your new X3400H.

No stock in the local BB so eta is next Tuesday. I may try it in my 2 channel system downstairs for a few day before swapping out the Marantz in the HT room so won't be able to say much for at least a week.

Funny I have been recommending the 9 channel 4300/4400 to others, but end up with ADTG's recommended 3400 myself, realizing the chance for me to need more than 7 channel in my small HT room is not >50/50 and I don't believe in those AL32, HDAM etc. Had the 4308 that has the advanced AL32, there wasn't any magic.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No stock in the local BB so eta is next Tuesday. I may try it in my 2 channel system downstairs for a few day before swapping out the Marantz in the HT room so won't be able to say much for at least a week.

Funny I have been recommending the 9 channel 4300/4400 to others, but end up with ADTG's recommended 3400 myself, realizing the chance for me to need more than 7 channel in my small HT room is not >50/50 and I don't believe in those AL32, HDAM etc. Had the 4308 that has the advanced AL32, there wasn't any magic.

So what are you going to do with the 5 YR old Marantz AV 8801 Pre-pro?

 

[PENG]

So what are you going to do with the 5 YR old Marantz AV 8801 Pre-pro?

If I can't get $1K for it then I will likely use it in one of my 3 two channel system. Just noticed I forgot to remove the sticker, still. Now I want $1,001 (CAD).

 

[panteragstk]

If I can't get $1K for it then I will likely use it in one of my 3 two channel system. Just noticed I forgot to remove the sticker, still. Now I want $1,001 (CAD).

So you're one of "those" people then?

 

[PENG]

So you're one of "those" people then?

Not really, this is the only one, I truly forgot. Just picked up the 3400. While there, I made a mistake taking a peek at the 4400 on the shelf and noticed the gold plated stuff right away, then the price tag $1499 caught my eyes and that settled it. Thanks to ADTG, this is is probably the first time the practical side of me prevailed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not really, this is the only one, I truly forgot. Just picked up the 3400. While there, I made a mistake taking a peek at the 4400 on the shelf and noticed the gold plated stuff right away, then the price tag $1499 caught my eyes and that settled it. Thanks to ADTG, this is is probably the first time the practical side of me prevailed.

Yeah, I'll believe it if you still own it AFTER the 30-day return policy is over.

I am convinced the X3400 will sound as good as anything, especially as good as the X4400, X6400.

If sound quality were the ONLY factor (which is practical),I think you will be pleased.