Crown XLS 1502 amp Impression

[PENG]

Do you think maybe Class A/C amps just have better specs (SNR, THD) than Class D amps in general?

If that's the trade-off, I would still go for the Class-D since my ears can't tell the difference with the difference in specs.

Not really, ATI's class D amp has excellent numbers, just as an example.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not really, ATI's class D amp has excellent numbers, just as an example.

True. So the thousand dollar question that only each person can answer is, are the specs worth several thousand dollars if the end result difference in sound quality isn't really significant?

SNR 103dB vs 110dB, THD 0.01% vs 0.5%, etc.

If speakers, subs, and room acoustics are the bottleneck of the whole system anyway?

 

[Mikado463]

Crazy crazy.

I've heard of wall A/C outlets,

oh ...... it even gets crazier ! .....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P25D12W/ref=asc_df_B00P25D12W5477985/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395009&creativeASIN=B00P25D12W&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242124331408&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10908616508086061035&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007343&hvtargid=pla-418146512811

everybody needs a couple of these !

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

oh ...... it even gets crazier ! .....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P25D12W/ref=asc_df_B00P25D12W5477985/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395009&creativeASIN=B00P25D12W&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242124331408&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10908616508086061035&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007343&hvtargid=pla-418146512811

everybody needs a couple of these !

Wow. I haven't heard of that one either! Not just the power outlet receptacle, but the wall plate too!

 

[nbk13nw]

Lol. Makes the electricity run faster.

 

[lovinthehd]

You want crazy, just take a look around Synergistic Research's site (and promoted by idiot reviewers at certain "audiophile" mags).

 

[panteragstk]

Wow. I haven't heard of that one either! Not just the power outlet receptacle, but the wall plate too!

Carbon fiber is lighter which means it takes less horsepower to move the...house? I guess people might like the look...I can imagine a room decorated with a carbon fiber motif...vroom vroom

 

[lovinthehd]

Carbon fiber is lighter which means it takes less horsepower to move the...house? I guess people might like the look...I can imagine a room decorated with a carbon fiber motif...vroom vroom

I guess that depends somewhat, since my cars have little or no carbon fiber, but I've had carbon fiber mountain bikes since 93....and a road bike well before that now that I think about it

 

[Irvrobinson]

That's nothing - how about cryogenically treated outlets:

https://www.dedicatedaudio.com/collections/outlets

 

[Mikado463]

That's nothing - how about cryogenically treated outlets:

https://www.dedicatedaudio.com/collections/outlets

come on Irv, spend a little ...........

https://www.amazon.com/Furutech-Ultimate-Nano-Crystal-Rhodium-Plated-Receptacle/dp/B017LTCI5M/ref=pd_bxgy_60_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B017LTCI5M&pd_rd_r=17ec9b93-5a17-11e8-a532-1b8228080e91&pd_rd_w=QbY3E&pd_rd_wg=lvbYV&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3914568618330124508&pf_rd_r=6XSAY71HG249S1KRDHTN&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=6XSAY71HG249S1KRDHTN

 

[Verdinut]

True. So the thousand dollar question that only each person can answer is, are the specs worth several thousand dollars if the end result difference in sound quality isn't really significant?

SNR 103dB vs 110dB, THD 0.01% vs 0.5%, etc.

If speakers, subs, and room acoustics are the bottleneck of the whole system anyway?

Isn't the quality of the source (recording quality) even more the most important bottleneck?

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I'm still waiting for 'Audiophile Air'. This would be a special air filter machine that would be sold in the finest audiophile stores. The machine would blow audiophile-enhanced, purified oxygen and nitrogen molecules into the room that would immediately contribute to a better sound. This would be a 'must have' for all discerning audiophiles!

I can just see the reviews:
"I swear I heard more of a sparkle on the top end." Toledo, OH
"My midrange came alive!" "It was as though I bought new speakers!" New Haven, CT
"Even my dog likes it!" "She doesn't bark anymore during violin solos!" Portland, OR
"I didn't just hear a difference, I actually saw it in the room!" Austin, TX
"After auditioning the air machine, not only did Frank Sinatra sound better, but my room even smelled better afterwards!" Little Rock, AR

Yes, these are happy customers of the new Audiophile Air machine. Shouldn't you be the next happy listener?
Call today! Operators are standing by.

 

[Irvrobinson]

True. So the thousand dollar question that only each person can answer is, are the specs worth several thousand dollars if the end result difference in sound quality isn't really significant?

SNR 103dB vs 110dB, THD 0.01% vs 0.5%, etc.

If speakers, subs, and room acoustics are the bottleneck of the whole system anyway?

It depends. These figures of merit have limited usefulness. The more pertinent data are the distribution, magnitude, and orders of noise and distortion in the spectrum. And then there's the duration question. Is noise and distortion more tolerable over a long time interval (say two hours) or less tolerable? I wonder if there's a difference.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Isn't the quality of the source (recording quality) even more the most important bottleneck?

Very true. If the recording sucks, nothing will help.

 

[TechHDS]

Yeah, I absolutely have no reservations in using these Crown XLS Amps.

As mentioned by @PENG I have also used the Crown XLS 2500 (1st generation) with the B&W 802 D2. Also sounded great.

There is another "Mr. Robinson" (what a popular last name ) on some online publication who also have used a Crown XLS (I think XLS 2000) amp with his B&W Diamond 800-series speakers and raved about the Crown amp.

So this opinion that these cost-effective Pro amps sound great is actually very old news.

What's new are the cool features like Input Sensitivity options, Display and Lighting options, Gain Level options (old feature) that $30,000 amps and other audiophile amps don't even give you! LOL.

That's kind of funny to me - cost-effective amps having more options and features than amps costing 10 - 100 x more!

But once again and again and again, would somebody please just put these pro amps inside relatively inexpensive cases like the Outlaw mono-block or many HTPC cases that cost $75!

I mean really, if these pro amps actually LOOK like audiophile amps (please no Emotiva cheese!),would we have this much resistance from the home-audio community?

Having done my own research the best Value for the dollar amp wise, Crown, Monolith, Outlaw amps. I just cant put Emotiva on the list anymore. I’d be lieing to myself if I said the cheese didn’t bother me it does always has. After they stop producing their amps past the 2nd gen lost Interested in their amps. Their new design not that I’m some kind of Expert I’m not just not what they use to be only my opinion guys. I Contribute knowledge learned from this thread and other threads that I’ve been following from you guys. If I do get the chance to home demo a Crown amp which I believe I will in the near future. For you old timers who have way more knowledge with specs and designs and understanding seeing for myself how many are using Crown amps and having Actually heard a Crown amp in clubs driving 15” drivers, horn drivers, what I heard with my old ears made a believer out of me. ADGT, great Thread bro, very big Bravo to all the participants on this Thread. It got funny at times even high jacked a few times all said and done I pick up some knowledge.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Having done my own research the best Value for the dollar amp wise, Crown, Monolith, Outlaw amps. I just cant put Emotiva on the list anymore. I’d be lieing to myself if I said the cheese didn’t bother me it does always has. After they stop producing their amps past the 2nd gen lost Interested in their amps. Their new design not that I’m some kind of Expert I’m not just not what they use to be only my opinion guys. I Contribute knowledge learned from this thread and other threads that I’ve been following from you guys. If I do get the chance to home demo a Crown amp which I believe I will in the near future. For you old timers who have way more knowledge with specs and designs and understanding seeing for myself how many are using Crown amps and having Actually heard a Crown amp in clubs driving 15” drivers, horn drivers, what I heard with my old ears made a believer out of me. ADGT, great Thread bro, very big Bravo to all the participants on this Thread. It got funny at times even high jacked a few times all said and done I pick up some knowledge.

Threads like these are just about sharing our experiences and observations along with some fun and giggles.

 

[slipperybidness]

Exactly, you get it. To be more nerdy, we are really saying "the sample set appears to represent the entire population with a confidence interval of at least 0.95 (one chance in 20 of being wrong).
If the data strongly indicates a Yes or a No answer, you can see it earlier than if the data is noisy. There are methods of designing trials that include an early stopping rule, at roughly half the total number of people. It looks for trials that appear to heading for a No answer. In clinical trials, there is good reason to stop a trial early if a treatment appears to be futile.

Search Google for "Simon's two-stage clinical trial design". This is widely accepted as a standard practice.
https://brb.nci.nih.gov/techreport/Optimal2-StageDesigns.pdf . I don't know what color belt I have in the 6sigma world, but I can nod my head intelligently at most of that paper's introduction and conclusions. Where I worked, these same guys were always around to comment on the statistical validity of a proposed trial. I quickly learned to smile and nod my head at whatever they recommended.

In my field (manufacturing), Statistical Process Control is the name of the game.

Yeah, I forgot about the 95% confidence interval.

SPC, the whole idea is to identify Normal Variation vs. Special Variation. In other words normal variation and the process is in control, special variation and the process is out of control (i.e. broken process).

Our 6sigma Black Belts make big $!

 

[TheWarrior]

Excellent value and performance for sure!

These may look better than the silver 1st gen, but they still don’t look as pretty as audiophile-amps; even the EMO amps look better.

I guess prettier cases cost a lot of money.

I wish they would put these in $75 HTPC cases. Then they would look like audiophile amps.

I'm late to the thread but was planning on using these or several XTi1002 for my future complement of DIY subs.

Aesthetically, I definitely prefer the XTi - but I am really just looking for performance! And as I keep going back and forth on sealed vs TL, color isn't really something I am worried about....

 

[Swerd]

… SPC, the whole idea is to identify Normal Variation vs. Special Variation. In other words normal variation and the process is in control, special variation and the process is out of control (i.e. broken process).

In trials involving humans, either clinical or product preferences, the Normal Variation among humans is very large, and it tends to vary widely from subgroup to subgroup. In the lab, we used inbred strains of mice to miinimise that. Each individual mouse is genetically identical to all the others. In the US, humans tend to be outbred (unless you're in West Virginia ).

 

[Irvrobinson]

come on Irv, spend a little ...........

https://www.amazon.com/Furutech-Ultimate-Nano-Crystal-Rhodium-Plated-Receptacle/dp/B017LTCI5M/ref=pd_bxgy_60_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B017LTCI5M&pd_rd_r=17ec9b93-5a17-11e8-a532-1b8228080e91&pd_rd_w=QbY3E&pd_rd_wg=lvbYV&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3914568618330124508&pf_rd_r=6XSAY71HG249S1KRDHTN&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=6XSAY71HG249S1KRDHTN

The best part of that link is the one review. I wonder if it's real (even when Amazon says "verified purchase" it can be an employee of the supplier who made the purchase)? I like the part about the soundstage being wider. And he's bought several more. This review can't be legit.

I bought this to replace my PS Audio Powerbase outlet and what a sonic difference. The grip is not only tighter , but the soundstage is wider and much more detail . I'm very happy with this outlet and its worth the change over my PS AUDIO Premier and PowerPort. So much, that I've bought serveral more to replace the outlets in my PS Audio Dectet which were already changed to Maestro. As with all audio and video changes, ymmv.