Crown XLS 1502 amp Impression

[Out-Of-Phase]

Yeah, I absolutely have no reservations in using these Crown XLS Amps.

As mentioned by @PENG I have also used the Crown XLS 2500 (1st generation) with the B&W 802 D2. Also sounded great.

There is another "Mr. Robinson" (what a popular last name ) on some online publication who also have used a Crown XLS (I think XLS 2000) amp with his B&W Diamond 800-series speakers and raved about the Crown amp.

So this opinion that these cost-effective Pro amps sound great is actually very old news.

What's new are the cool features like Input Sensitivity options, Display and Lighting options, Gain Level options (old feature) that $30,000 amps and other audiophile amps don't even give you! LOL.

That's kind of funny to me - cost-effective amps having more options and features than amps costing 10 - 100 x more!

But once again and again and again, would somebody please just put these pro amps inside relatively inexpensive cases like the Outlaw mono-block or many HTPC cases that cost $75!

I mean really, if these pro amps actually LOOK like audiophile amps (please no Emotiva cheese!), would we have this much resistance from the home-audio community?

Really. Well said. Thank you.

 

[slipperybidness]

The lack of statistical significance is usually caused by far too few participants in the listening test. For example, if two items are compared in a blind A/B listening test, and the goal of the test is to determine if people can or cannot hear a difference, it takes many people before a clear, statistically significant answer emerges. At least 50 to 100! With numbers in that range, a simple yes/no answer could be valid. A much larger trial, with 300-1000 people, would be required if you want to estimate what percent of listeners can or cannot hear differences. Yes, estimating human perception is absolutely sloppy, and large numbers of participants are required to deal with that.

Such a test would have to also include built-in controls that estimate how many people falsely identify identical items as sounding different (an A/A comparison, a measure of false positives),and another to estimate how many people fail to identify two items that are well known to sound different (a measure of false negatives). I've never seen a listening test use both of those controls.

You likely have more experience with getting true statistically significant data set vs. most other AH members.

I will add a comment--When we say a data set is "statistically significant", what we are really saying is "the sample set represents the entire population of data".

I am a 6sigma yellow belt, need to start working towards the green belt.

Generally, we say that we are "starting to get statistically significant data with 30 data points". Obviously, the confidence interval goes up as Square Root of the Number of measurements. But, I'm also dealing with hard-data, not subjective influence (in theory) in my data sets.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sounds like a good diy project to make an appropriate facade for aesthetic purposes. I just sort of hide my XLS1500s, but if they were black wouldn't even do that....

I think if they could make the RACK MOUNT optional (like the Denon DN-700AVP pre-pro and ATI amps) it would help a lot.

I don't think these 2nd generation black XLS amps look that bad, but the rack-mount sticks out because it looks nothing like all the other components.

So if they could make it so the rack-mount is optional and be easily by removed by removing 4 screws, that would be nice.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

LOL, just like 'Little League' ...... everybody gets a trophy !

Why.....................you.......................................

 

[lovinthehd]

I think if they could make the RACK MOUNT optional (like the Denon DN-700AVP pre-pro and ATI amps) it would help a lot.

I don't think these 2nd generation black XLS amps look that bad, but the rack-mount sticks out because it looks nothing like all the other components.

So if they could make it so the rack-mount is optional and be easily by removed by removing 4 screws, that would be nice.

At least they're better than the "ear" rack mount on the 1st gen.....thinking you could bolt a nice wood or metal face plate easier on gen2....

 

[Irvrobinson]

There is another "Mr. Robinson" (what a popular last name ) on some online publication who also have used a Crown XLS (I think XLS 2000) amp with his B&W Diamond 800-series speakers and raved about the Crown amp.

Just for the record, there is a David Robinson who is the editor of a subjective review audio magazine / web site called Positive Feedback. By coincidence my brother's name is David Robinson, but I am not related in any way to the editor of Positive Feedback.

 

[Mikado463]

Just for the record, there is a David Robinson who is the editor of a subjective review audio magazine / web site called Positive Feedback. By coincidence my brother's name is David Robinson, but I am not related in any way to the editor of Positive Feedback.

is that the one who graduated from the Naval Academy and played basketball ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just for the record, there is a David Robinson who is the editor of a subjective review audio magazine / web site called Positive Feedback. By coincidence my brother's name is David Robinson, but I am not related in any way to the editor of Positive Feedback.

A lot of Robinson's. Then there's that Basketball star named David Robinson.

It was Andrew Robinson who raved about the Crown XLS 2000 (1st Generation) powering his B&W Diamond 800-series in his online publication. I think he sold his other amp and kept the Crown XLS 2000.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

is that the one who graduated from the Naval Academy and played basketball ?

You beat me to it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

At least they're better than the "ear" rack mount on the 1st gen.....thinking you could bolt a nice wood or metal face plate easier on gen2....

I noticed the 2nd generation XLS amps have circuit breakers and the RESET button, instead of the old amp fuses. Who needs fuses?

That's one thing I love about ATI amps - no fuses. So these Crown amps also use circuit breakers and speaker protection, instead of fuses.

That's another advantage.

Pros
- Circuit Breakers and Reset Button, No Fuses to worry about replacing
- Cost effective (Dollar per Watts)
- Significantly less heat production
- Significantly less weight
- High power
- Input Sensitivity Options
- Lighting/Display Options
- Gain/Volume Knobs
- Clip Indicators
- Speakon and Standard Speaker Binding Posts
- Locking XLR and Standard RCA Inputs
- Professional grade, made to endure commercial use
- Sound as great as other audiophile amps

Cons
- Still lacks a standard 12V trigger (has weird 3-pin trigger I can’t figure)
- Still need to improve on aesthetics - don't know why it's so difficult when cheap amps like the Outlaw Mono-block and other Subwoofer amps look more like audiophile amps
- Could make the Rack-Mount optional so people could remove it to make it look more like audiophile amps
- Specs/Measurements (SNR, THD, X-Talk, Slew, Damping) aren't as good as audiophile amps, but still sound as good

 

[Swerd]

I will add a comment--When we say a data set is "statistically significant", what we are really saying is "the sample set represents the entire population of data".

Exactly, you get it. To be more nerdy, we are really saying "the sample set appears to represent the entire population with a confidence interval of at least 0.95 (one chance in 20 of being wrong).

Generally, we say that we are "starting to get statistically significant data with 30 data points".

If the data strongly indicates a Yes or a No answer, you can see it earlier than if the data is noisy. There are methods of designing trials that include an early stopping rule, at roughly half the total number of people. It looks for trials that appear to heading for a No answer. In clinical trials, there is good reason to stop a trial early if a treatment appears to be futile.

Search Google for "Simon's two-stage clinical trial design". This is widely accepted as a standard practice.
https://brb.nci.nih.gov/techreport/Optimal2-StageDesigns.pdf . I don't know what color belt I have in the 6sigma world, but I can nod my head intelligently at most of that paper's introduction and conclusions. Where I worked, these same guys were always around to comment on the statistical validity of a proposed trial. I quickly learned to smile and nod my head at whatever they recommended.

 

[Mikado463]

Who needs fuses?

why the 'in' crowd of course !! ...........

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8icai-synergistic-research-black-quantum-fuse-winner-of-positive-feedback-s-brutus-award-2017-tweaks?acq=fuel&creative=shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInbfslLqN2wIVB0sNCh25gAXzEAQYASABEgI18_D_BwE&keyword=tweaks

 

[PENG]

As far as reading those reviews in Stereophile, I don't go there… and you shouldn't either .

I do go there for the measurements only. I ignore their subjective reviews, except Kal Rubinson's, but I won't take his to the bank either.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

why the 'in' crowd of course !! ...........

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8icai-synergistic-research-black-quantum-fuse-winner-of-positive-feedback-s-brutus-award-2017-tweaks?acq=fuel&creative=shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInbfslLqN2wIVB0sNCh25gAXzEAQYASABEgI18_D_BwE&keyword=tweaks

No way! I had no idea fuses were a thing!

But I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[nbk13nw]

With up to 200 hours for "burn in" time, I would expect a return policy / money back of more than 200 hours. Lol

 

[Mikado463]

I do go there for the measurements only. I ignore their subjective reviews, except Kal Rubinson's, but I won't take his to the bank either.

I hear 'ya, but I still subscribe and I still have fond memories of JGH, 'just listen to the music baby' !

 

[Mikado463]

No way! I had no idea fuses were a thing!

But I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

yeah, can you believe it !!

 

[PENG]

Yeah, I absolutely have no reservations in using these Crown XLS Amps.

As mentioned by @PENG I have also used the Crown XLS 2500 (1st generation) with the B&W 802 D2. Also sounded great.

There is another "Mr. Robinson" (what a popular last name ) on some online publication who also have used a Crown XLS (I think XLS 2000) amp with his B&W Diamond 800-series speakers and raved about the Crown amp.

So this opinion that these cost-effective Pro amps sound great is actually very old news.

What's new are the cool features like Input Sensitivity options, Display and Lighting options, Gain Level options (old feature) that $30,000 amps and other audiophile amps don't even give you! LOL.

That's kind of funny to me - cost-effective amps having more options and features than amps costing 10 - 100 x more!

But once again and again and again, would somebody please just put these pro amps inside relatively inexpensive cases like the Outlaw mono-block or many HTPC cases that cost $75!

I mean really, if these pro amps actually LOOK like audiophile amps (please no Emotiva cheese!),would we have this much resistance from the home-audio community?

My QSC amp has better specs than yours, cost less, has adjustable gain, but being class AB, it's heavy, need the fan replaced with a quieter one, and cost more on per watt basis. If they would do something about that stock fan, replace that OPA with a audiophile grade (for psychoacoustics effect) it would be a serious competitor to the XLS series.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My QSC amp has better specs than yours, cost less, has adjustable gain, but being class AB, it's heavy, need the fan replaced with a quieter one, and cost more on per watt basis. If they would do something about that stock fan, replace that OPA with a audiophile grade (for psychoacoustics effect) it would be a serious competitor to the XLS series.

Do you think maybe Class A/C amps just have better specs (SNR, THD) than Class D amps in general?

If that's the trade-off, I would still go for the Class-D since my ears can't tell the difference with the difference in specs.

Regarding the QSC fan, could you just remove the internal fan and just use an external fan?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

yeah, can you believe it !!

Crazy crazy.

I've heard of upgrades in Capacitors, wall A/C outlets, power cords, cable ground-lifts; but fuses never crossed my mind until now.