Dream Separates System

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I keep seeing this $12,000 Mark Levinson Integrated amp on Audioholics.

This thing looks more like a Pre-pro or AVR. It's almost 8" in height and 20" in depth!



Interesting that Mark Levinson doesn't even have a Pre-pro.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Well, it’s just dream. ;)

In reality, I agree with you about the 20YR warranty.

In reality, it’s a lot more cost effective to just buy mid-level AVR or pre-pros ($600 Denon X3000 or $800 Denon X4000 AVR or $800 Denon DN-700AVP Pre-pro) and amps (Monolith 200WPC amp for $1100 B-stock); and if they die in 7-10 YR, just buy new ones. :D

But that’s reality.

We’re dreaming here dammit. :D
The Denon DN-700 looks interesting indeed and the price is starting to be appealing as compared with that of traditional audiophile pre-pros. ! When someone as myself is already using a rack mount console, it can become an interesting option when he already has power amps to drive with it.

I would not be surprised that this product uses the same components as some of their AVRs. Any hint on that?
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The Denon DN-700 looks interesting indeed and the price is starting to be appealing as compared with traditional audiophile pre-pros. ! When someone as myself is already using a rack mount console, it can become an interesting option when he already has power amps to drive with it.

I would not be surprised that this product uses the same components as some of their AVRs. Any hint on that?
It makes perfect sense that it would use some of the same components as the other Denon AVRs, minus the EQ and DSP.

The most interesting thing to me is the total lack of Audyssey EQ and DSP, which makes it even more appealing to a lot of "purists".

That and the price is just too cool.

A Purist's Separates Preamp-Processor w/ XLR that doesn't "dirty" itself with EQ and DSP for only $800! Unheard of. :D
 
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Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
I keep seeing this $12,000 Mark Levinson Integrated amp on Audioholics.

This thing looks more like a Pre-pro or AVR. It's almost 8" in height and 20" in depth!



Interesting that Mark Levinson doesn't even have a Pre-pro.

I hate to admit it, but it sure does look pretty.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
And all of that is true. Large rooms and at least six feet from the back and side walls are requirements. But to me they sound oddly accurate compared to box speakers. I've heard a lot of theories about why that's true, but whatever the reason they just are. And they get very expensive too. The ML CLX is like $25K/pair, and need subs. The Sound Labs are in the $35K+ range, and are huge. The Quads are too small to have decent bass, and really not in this league, though they sound great for some music.
I'm not sure if Mr. Floyd Toole is a fan of these speakers though.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Reminds me of Peter Aczel of The Audio Critic raving about the Linkwitz Orion speakers and how they sound truer and more lifelike than any "monkey coffin box speaker". :D

His endorsement for the Orion sure worked because I bought a pair.

I've heard some big Magnepan and Martin Logan speakers at dealers a few times.

Different strokes for different folks. :D
The Maggies are actually quite different, as they are two-way systems, and for highs they are a line-source, and they sound different than electrostatics, and IMO not as good, though they do give people a taste of a panel speaker experience at a much lower price. I think the problem Maggies have now is that their SQ advantage over reasonably-priced box speakers has lessened over time, and now they're even more of a niche product than ever.

The Orions are a very interesting "dream system" case, and as you may remember one I considered carefully years ago. I did like the Orions, but nowhere near as much as Aczel did, and once I heard the Salon2s the case was closed. The Salon2s struck me as far better, and were one of my two or three OMG experiences I've had in audio over decades. (As I remember, you had a similar experience the first time you heard the Salon2s too.)

The more I looked into them the more the Orions struck me as a case of the designer, SL, being obsessed with figuring out an implementation of certain speaker design principles that he was fascinated by, and then being forced down a path of solving or mitigating one unique engineering problem after another to realize his dream. Tweak after tweak after tweak. His website is honest and fascinating in this regard. I have read the entire site more than once. And in the end he abandoned the Orion and moved on to the LX521, which he now claims to be a better end of the road, and as good as it gets. (I'll say this for the LX521, it sure is ugly, so it had better sound awesome. :) )

I think Roger West of Sound Lab is much the same way, though his problem was even more grandiose. At least SL gets to use conventional drivers. And of course, a price of $35K or so limits your market to rich people with an audio obsession. There are some, ahem, but not very many. And the Sound Labs don't like loud stuff and deep bass very much, so they're not a good dream for many types of music. But for acoustic jazz and classical music, well, there's magic there. Real, change-your-perspective magic.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I'm not sure if Mr. Floyd Toole is a fan of these speakers though.
Well, if he's paying he gets an opinion, otherwise, I don't care what he thinks. :) I think to be successful with electrostatics you have to be obsessed with the concept, like Peter Walker was, Roger West is, and the Martin-Logan guys are. Making great sound out of what is essentially coated Saran Wrap between two high-voltage electrodes doesn't sound easy. ;)
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
Well, if he's paying he gets an opinion, otherwise, I don't care what he thinks. :) I think to be successful with electrostatics you have to be obsessed with the concept, like Peter Walker was, Roger West is, and the Martin-Logan guys are. Making great sound out of what is essentially coated Saran Wrap between two high-voltage electrodes doesn't sound easy. ;)
I think what Mr. Toole was referring to in his criticism was the lack of a 'flat response'.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I think what Mr. Toole was referring to in his criticism was the lack of a 'flat response'.
I agree. I can’t remember the last time I saw speakers like these having a flat on-axis and smooth off-axis. These are $25,000 MartinLogan speakers. But they could use Room EQ to smooth out the FR. :D

 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I agree. I can’t remember the last time I saw speakers like these having a flat on-axis and smooth off-axis. These are $25,000 MartinLogan speakers. But they could use Room EQ to smooth out the FR. :D

These are the raw graphs, and panel speakers always show that comb filtering this graph does when measured at a short distance (in this case 50", which is chosen by formula to eliminate reflections above a certain frequency, like 200Hz), but that's not what you hear at the listening seat. If you read that entire review JA said "Wow!" regarding FR smoothness.

I've actually heard these speakers in an extended dealer demo, and they are very good. By very good I mean they are viable competitors to the Salon2s, which I obviously think highly of. I thought horn instrument reproduction was more realistic than I heard with the Salon2s, percussion was very good, and strings were awesome, but the combination of some inherent brightness in the speakers and the dealers lousy showroom design made them sound a little fatiguing after about an hour. The 15A also did very well in my solo piano tests, and this surprised me since it uses a 300Hz crossover frequency (which is in a critical range for a piano). (In fact, I've attributed the Salon2's extraordinary piano reproduction to a crossover to the woofers an octave lower.) I ended up not moving forward with an in-home demo, because $25K is pricey for not being blown away, but I suspect in my own room I would like these speakers better than the Salon2s.
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
My old receiver doesn't matter. What matters is truth.
then why mention it ?? you're quick to poo-hoo your previous Acurus and say 'your old receiver' was better but you don't tell us what it was ? Obviously you don't know the 'truth' .... LOL !

The Op started this thread about one's 'dream systems', you seem hell bent nightmares !
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
then why mention it ?? you're quick to poo-hoo your previous Acurus and say 'your old receiver' was better but you don't tell us what it was ? Obviously you don't know the 'truth' .... LOL !

The Op started this thread about one's 'dream systems', you seem hell bent nightmares !
The make and model of my receiver is irrelevant due to blind listening tests performed between both devices that were volume level matched down to the millivolt. When comparing audio products, truth only comes when we are able to bypass cognitive bias in the brain.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I keep seeing this $12,000 Mark Levinson Integrated amp on Audioholics.

This thing looks more like a Pre-pro or AVR. It's almost 8" in height and 20" in depth!



Interesting that Mark Levinson doesn't even have a Pre-pro.
Harman has wisely gone back to their wildly successful styling from the 1990s and 2000s. It reminds me of my ML components from back then. But $12K? Too much.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
The make and model of my receiver is irrelevant due to blind listening tests performed between both devices that were volume level matched down to the millivolt. When comparing audio products, truth only comes when we are able to bypass cognitive bias in the brain.
this thread is not about that and for the record the make and model of your separates are just as 'irrelevant' as well ! But no, you had to mention them ........... what a tool !
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I hope you guys had a good night sleep with happy dreams and feeling cheerful today! :D
 

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