Truly amazed..

[shadyJ]

Links?
I have seen Tom complement other manufacturers subs, and would like to see the context, manner, and explanation he would give when bashing a product.
Sorry, I guess I'm in a mood to get specific, today!
As your statement is made, he could have said "AudioQuest cables are a rip off" which would raise nary an eyebrow here!

Check out how much Tom slams Monoprice's Monolith subs in this thread. He is trying to pour an awful lot of rain on Monoprice's parade there. I believe Monoprice was an AVS sponsor at the time that he wrote that stuff, but I don't see them as an advertiser with them currently, and after that, I don't blame them for bailing out of AVS.

 

[Blake NoLast]

AVS in general is very touchy. I bet infractions for just saying something negative about a product. The Oppo closing thread I got infractions for just saying something about what them.

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Exactly, they are just way way too touchy about anything perceived as negative.

 

[Blake NoLast]

Check out how much Tom slams Monoprice's Monolith subs in this thread. He is trying to pour an awful lot of rain on Monoprice's parade there. I believe Monoprice was an AVS sponsor at the time that he wrote that stuff, but I don't see them as an advertiser with them currently, and after that, I don't blame them for bailing out of AVS.

That's funny, because he knows the Monolith subs are monsters and offer more performance in their respective ranges than his do.

 

[KEW]

Check out how much Tom slams Monoprice's Monolith subs in this thread. He is trying to pour an awful lot of rain on Monoprice's parade there. I believe Monoprice was an AVS sponsor at the time that he wrote that stuff, but I don't see them as an advertiser with them currently, and after that, I don't blame them for bailing out of AVS.

If you are highlighting how AVS is allowing him to criticize Monolith, I can see that (I don't know how bad they are about limiting others). However, I was happy to see that he was comparing the Monoprice to his competitors and mostly saying that the Monolith was not a profound product that out-classes the offerings of Rythmik, SVS, or Hsu (based on the CEA data provided by Monolith) as was the speculation in this thread.
I can see how AVS might strongarm such comments out of a thread for the introduction/discussion of a product, and why Monoprice would pull sponsorship since they didn't, but am relieved to see Tom did not sing the virtues of his own products while slamming the Monolith subs. Rather he sang the praises of Hsu, SVS, and Rythmik!
Intent matters, and he is essentially telling people (based on the CEA data) not to be too quick to buy into the Monolith because his competitors (with the most emphasis on Hsu) offer better products. I respect him for that!
I believe you have reviewed the Monolith. Do you think he was being unfair to Monolith when he states that a specific model(s) of Hsu, SVS, or Rythmik outperforms them?

And then there is this when he is asked how he thinks the Monolith 15 will sound:

Its almost certain to sound very, very good. The pertinent (performance) numbers are similar to the hsu 15h and rythmik fv15hp. Those two get universal raves from reviewers and users alike. No reason to think the mono15 will be any different.


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

 

[KEW]

That's funny, because he knows the Monolith subs are monsters and offer more performance in their respective ranges than his do.

Truth be told, he never says otherwise. He never mentions his own subs in comparison to Monolith's performance!
However, I should say I only read 4 pages into the link, as it seemed to go off on other tangents.

Here is an example of how he is presenting things:

Per the data-sets available on both the (12" 350W, sic) outlaw has 2-3dB more headroom >50hz, the mono-10 has 2-3dB more <35hz...40hz is about equal. Remember, that is max output capabilities. Up until you approach those respective limits the two products will likely sound more similar than not.

At $575 the hsu vtf-2 rocks both of them. Equaling the mono-10 down low and exceeding the outlaw in the mid and upper bass. From 50hz and up you'd need dual mono-10 subs to have similar headroom to one vtf-2 as an example.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Check with hsu on the one vtf-3 versus two vtf-2 question they'll be more able to offer product specific feedback. In general, one larger will tend to offer a better "output/dollar" ratio. Also, going with one large sub now may be more "future proof" in that you can always add a second one down the road if you feel the need. If you go with two smaller subs you might be in "start all over mode" later if you decide to upgrade as most don't want more than two subs in their rooms.

The Hsu vtf-3 is $850 versus $800(for the mono12). The Hsu has a *huge* advantage with approximately double the output capabilities from 25-100hz. 15-20hz the advantage for the Hsu is much smaller. Svs should never be in a best performance/dollar discussion against true ID companies like Hsu or rythmik unless you're getting half off the svs or something(like the pb12nsd). Pick a hsu---vtf-3, uls15 for example...and you're spending double at svs for similar performance. Hsu just needs to call the uls15 the new history making uls16(!) and then everyone will get on board

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

It looks to me like he is trying to sell Hsu subwoofers, LOL!

 

[shadyJ]

If you are highlighting how AVS is allowing him to criticize Monolith, I can see that (I don't know how bad they are about limiting others). However, I was happy to see that he was comparing the Monoprice to his competitors and mostly saying that the Monolith was not a profound product that out-classes the offerings of Rythmik, SVS, or Hsu (based on the CEA data provided by Monolith) as was the speculation in this thread.
I can see how AVS might strongarm such comments out of a thread for the introduction/discussion of a product, and why Monoprice would pull sponsorship since they didn't, but am relieved to see Tom did not sing the virtues of his own products while slamming the Monolith subs. Rather he sang the praises of Hsu, SVS, and Rythmik!
Intent matters, and he is essentially telling people (based on the CEA data) not to be too quick to buy into the Monolith because his competitors (with the most emphasis on Hsu) offer better products. I respect him for that!
I believe you have reviewed the Monolith. Do you think he was being unfair to Monolith when he states that a specific model(s) of Hsu, SVS, or Rythmik outperforms them?

He was also slamming the Monoprice subs in favor of his own products too (and, fwiw, its a pretty sure bet that the Monolith 15" would wreck the PSA 18"). But I think you are ignoring the subtext of his comments: panic. He knows the designer of these subs, so he knows that they are the real deal. Don't pay attention to his bogus analysis.

As for his fairness to Monoprice subs, I can only speak to the 10" and 12" at the moment, since those are the only ones I have used so far. Without giving too much away from an unpublished review, the Monoprice THX subs are really good. With respect to their competition, they have some real advantages. This review should be published within May, so you can see what their advantages are exactly by the end of the month, hopefully.

 

[lovinthehd]

Always found Tom's posts to be pretty straightforward and supportive of his competition. Not everyone liked his product as much as others, but what's new there?

 

[Hetfield]

I will say I have talked to Tom a few times and found him to be extremely honest. He even steered me toward Ascend acoustics because of budget constraints. He said he recommends Ascend acoustics CMT340s a few times a week because someone has budget constraints.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[KEW]

He was also slamming the Monoprice subs in favor of his own products too (and, fwiw, its a pretty sure bet that the Monolith 15" would wreck the PSA 18"). But I think you are ignoring the subtext of his comments: panic. He knows the designer of these subs, so he knows that they are the real deal. Don't pay attention to his bogus analysis.

As for his fairness to Monoprice subs, I can only speak to the 10" and 12" at the moment, since those are the only ones I have used so far. Without giving too much away from an unpublished review, the Monoprice THX subs are really good. With respect to their competition, they have some real advantages. This review should be published within May, so you can see what their advantages are exactly by the end of the month, hopefully.

Ahh, point taken, overlooked that one because he was insulting the Monolith indirectly!
Looking forward to your review, but moreover looking forward to whether you think these subs topple Hsu for value!

 

[lovinthehd]

He was also slamming the Monoprice subs in favor of his own products too (and, fwiw, its a pretty sure bet that the Monolith 15" would wreck the PSA 18"). But I think you are ignoring the subtext of his comments: panic. He knows the designer of these subs, so he knows that they are the real deal. Don't pay attention to his bogus analysis.

As for his fairness to Monoprice subs, I can only speak to the 10" and 12" at the moment, since those are the only ones I have used so far. Without giving too much away from an unpublished review, the Monoprice THX subs are really good. With respect to their competition, they have some real advantages. This review should be published within May, so you can see what their advantages are exactly by the end of the month, hopefully.

Hard to read that bit as "slamming". More defending which is pretty natural. So who is the designer for the Monoprice subs?

 

[shadyJ]

Hard to read that bit as "slamming". More defending which is pretty natural. So who is the designer for the Monoprice subs?

He was tearing it down in favor of his own products.

The designer of the Monolith subs is Dan Roemer at Claridy Audio. He also made the Outlaw Ultra-X13 and XTZ x12 subs. By the way, the XTZ X12 subs were reworked and improved, and are now THX Ultra certified. and are on sale for 30% off with a coupon code. That is a crazy good deal at the moment.

 

[shadyJ]

Truth be told, he never says otherwise. He never mentions his own subs in comparison to Monolith's performance!

.....

It looks to me like he is trying to sell Hsu subwoofers, LOL!

I think what some of you guys might not be seeing is that in using other manufacturer's subs to slam the Monolith subs, he is trying to discredit a new competitive threat. He can't really do that against Hsu or Rythmik since their credibility is already so well established. And he is right to see the Monolith subs as a threat.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think what some of you guys might not be seeing is that in using other manufacturer's subs to slam the Monolith subs, he is trying to discredit a new competitive threat. He can't really do that against Hsu or Rythmik since their credibility is already so well established. And he is right to see the Monolith subs as a threat.

I didn't read it that way. I took it more as a look at what all these subs are about vs hype of new THX sub from Monoprice. Kinda reminds me of all the hype for Elac stuff as far as some of the monoprice amp/sub stuff. New stuff can get folk excited unnecessarily....

 

[shadyJ]

I didn't read it that way. I took it more as a look at what all these subs are about vs hype of new THX sub from Monoprice. Kinda reminds me of all the hype for Elac stuff as far as some of the monoprice amp/sub stuff. New stuff can get folk excited unnecessarily....

I agree that shiny new things can get over-hyped by excitable people. I just don't think that Tom's motive is trying to temper something that is getting over-hyped as much as it is trying to kill the buzz around a legitimate new competitor.

 

[lovinthehd]

I agree that shiny new things can get over-hyped by excitable people. I just don't think that Tom's motive is trying to temper something that is getting over-hyped as much as it is trying to kill the buzz around a legitimate new competitor.

Again, I didn't take it that way, just some effort at keeping focus on what the differences actually were and didn't see he was trying to say they were to be avoided in lieu of his product. You may be a tad sensitive on the subject of PSA?

 

[Hetfield]

Again, I didn't take it that way, just some effort at keeping focus on what the differences actually were and didn't see he was trying to say they were to be avoided in lieu of his product. You may be a tad sensitive on the subject of PSA?

Ha just like PSA speakers are sensitive. I couldn't resist.

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[KEW]

I agree that shiny new things can get over-hyped by excitable people. I just don't think that Tom's motive is trying to temper something that is getting over-hyped as much as it is trying to kill the buzz around a legitimate new competitor.

So is he distorting things?
Where he compares the Monolith to Rythmik/Hsu/SVS is he making false statements?
Be specific!

He may well be trying to kill the buzz of a legitimate competitor, but if he is correct in his criticisms, I don't see that as a bad thing!

 

[Steve81]

He may well be trying to kill the buzz of a legitimate competitor, but if he is correct in his criticisms, I don't see that as a bad thing!

There's a time and place for criticisms/discussions, but I'm not sure the official AVS thread announcing the Monoprice subs is an appropriate setting for a competitor to jump in and make sure everyone knows his product is better than the new kid on the block.

 

[shadyJ]

Again, I didn't take it that way, just some effort at keeping focus on what the differences actually were and didn't see he was trying to say they were to be avoided in lieu of his product. You may be a tad sensitive on the subject of PSA?

Lol I can't say I am impartial here, but let's see how indifferent you are when a manufacturer runs a smear campaign on you!

 

[lovinthehd]

Lol I can't say I am impartial here, but let's see how indifferent you are when a manufacturer runs a smear campaign on you!

I'm familiar with the story....but perhaps don't spin it as one sided, as you seem to think is an issue when others do?