Floorstanders vs subwoofer for music only

[Ashok1964]

Hi, I've recently upgraded my home audio to a Marantz CD5005, paired with Marantz 8005 amp, audio-technica turntable, Energy C-500 floorstanders and my old Sansui 10 band equaliser. The Energy speakers are very bright and far too crisp with average to poor bass at low volumes - I mostly listen to 60s-80s hard rock/rock and modern jazz. Will adding a 12" sub be the right fix or should I consider a new set of 3 way floors tankers - the Energy 500s are 2.5 way and a major disappointment from my earlier set up of Technics TT, Sansui Integrated amp and equaliser, Nakamichi ZX-9 and Pioneer 250 RMS 3 way floor standers.

 

[everettT]

Never heard of bright bass. Upper midrange yes. If thats what your hearing no sub will help. How long have you had the speakers?

 

[Ashok1964]

Thanks Everett - bright mids and highs. Speakers are 12 years old but sparingly used during this period.

 

[Ashok1964]

What I'm missing is the underlying bass lines John Entwistle played or that single powerful bass note by Roger Waters in the middle of 'Pigs'...can't feel the bass with these speakers while my Pioneers literally rattled all glassware!

 

[everettT]

Since it sounds like a two fold issue, id look for new speakers. Bookshelves and a sub would ensure the lowest notes would be covered. If you have a budget let us know and we can recommend some to consider. Also where are you located at, how large is your room, and how far do you sit from the speakers?

 

[shadyJ]

It sounds like you prefer warmer speakers. You can always just EQ your speakers for a warmer sound too. A subwoofer might solve your bass problems, but maybe not. A lot of the bass that people think is deep bass is really just mid bass in the 80 to 150 Hz region, and this is outside normal subwoofer frequency band. You can always have a higher crossover point between speakers and sub though.

I think you might give these speakers a try. They are not expensive, they are on the warm side of sound character, and they have very powerful bass.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think you will probably like to have a subwoofer with whatever speaker you own anyway, unless the speaker already has a subwoofer.

So I think it's a good idea to get a nice subwoofer first to see if that improves the sound.

I assume you are using an integrated amp, so not much EQ here like Audyssey Dynamic EQ to play with.

If you have access to an AVR like the Denon X3400 (able to borrow or try out), you might play with Audyssey Dynamic EQ or Audyssey XT32 Room Correction to see if that improves the sound.

If the subwoofer doesn't improve the sound, then also get new speakers.

 

[snakeeyes]

I think you will probably like to have a subwoofer with whatever speaker you own anyway, unless the speaker already has a subwoofer.

So I think it's a good idea to get a nice subwoofer first to see if that improves the sound.

I assume you are using an integrated amp, so not much EQ here like Audyssey Dynamic EQ to play with.

If you have access to an AVR like the Denon X3400 (able to borrow or try out), you might play with Audyssey Dynamic EQ or Audyssey XT32 Room Correction to see if that improves the sound.

If the subwoofer doesn't improve the sound, then also get new speakers.

You should add a decent sub then reevaluate the sound of the current speakers after applying bass management. Rythmik and HSU and SVS make great subs. As far as size, first figure out the cubic feet of the space and include all space that is open to it in that calculation. Good luck!

 

[Ashok1964]

It sounds like you prefer warmer speakers. You can always just EQ your speakers for a warmer sound too. A subwoofer might solve your bass problems, but maybe not. A lot of the bass that people think is deep bass is really just mid bass in the 80 to 150 Hz region, and this is outside normal subwoofer frequency band. You can always have a higher crossover point between speakers and sub though.

I think you might give these speakers a try. They are not expensive, they are on the warm side of sound character, and they have very powerful bass.

You should add a decent sub then reevaluate the sound of the current speakers after applying bass management. Rythmik and HSU and SVS make great subs. As far as size, first figure out the cubic feet of the space and include all space that is open to it in that calculation. Good luck!

Thanks - I was planning on a 12" sub - is the Polk 505 a good option ? The room size in cubic feet would be 4000.

 

[KEW]

I would replace the C-500's.
IMHO, they are the weak link in your system.
You probably will want a sub, but if you only listen to music, it may not be that relevant depending on what speakers you get!
Our ears are much more critical in the midrange and I feel you should sort that out before chasing bass.
If this is HT, the sub becomes more relevant (for me, at least) just for the fun of LFE!

 

[lovinthehd]

You should add a decent sub then reevaluate the sound of the current speakers after applying bass management. Rythmik and HSU and SVS make great subs. As far as size, first figure out the cubic feet of the space and include all space that is open to it in that calculation. Good luck!

With his gear what bass management?

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks - I was planning on a 12" sub - is the Polk 505 a good option ? The room size in cubic feet would be 4000.

Not a very powerful sub (and not really all that good of a sub) for a volume that large...I'd think more along the lines of something from SVS, Hsu, Power Sound Audio, Rythmik....

 

[snakeeyes]

Thanks - I was planning on a 12" sub - is the Polk 505 a good option ? The room size in cubic feet would be 4000.

You might want to avoid Polk as they don’t perform well. The sub a lot of people like for music in that size space is the HSU ULS15 (sealed 15) but it is out of stock off and on so might take patience to get it. Personally I love my Rythmik LVX12 (ported 12) but my theater is a 2600 cubic feet room. For music it might work out in 4000... I think the L22 (dual sealed 12) could be an option possibly as well...
As far as replacing the main speakers, you open yourself to the option of bookshelf speakers if you have a great sub you can pair with. You will get a lot of opinions on this in the forum. Personally I would set your budget first before opening that door for advice... You will get tons...

 

[snakeeyes]

With his gear what bass management?

Ya with towers just use LFE in and adjust gain to taste would work great. Nobody has to make the switch to bass management unless they want to...

 

[Ashok1964]

It sounds like you prefer warmer speakers. You can always just EQ your speakers for a warmer sound too. A subwoofer might solve your bass problems, but maybe not. A lot of the bass that people think is deep bass is really just mid bass in the 80 to 150 Hz region, and this is outside normal subwoofer frequency band. You can always have a higher crossover point between speakers and sub though.

I think you might give these speakers a try. They are not expensive, they are on the warm side of sound character, and they have very powerful bass.

Thanks !

 

[Ashok1964]

Dear all, thanks very much for your sound advice on the C-500s and the better sub manufacturers...Options for floor standing speakers available in India are:
Cerwin Vega XLS 12 or 28
Polk RTia9
Klipsch RPF 28 and RF Series 26/28
KEF Q900
Dali Zensor 7
Elac Debut F5

There are tons of other options but these are the ones I could quickly shortlist based on specs, reviews, availability etc. I don't think I'll ever get beyond 40-50% volume thanks to the missus so any suggestions on least expensive but almost great sound quality would help - the music is mostly 60s Pop/Rock and 70s hard/art/prog/mor etc...the usual suspects - Beatles, Stones, Dylan, LedZep, Floyd, The Who, Yes, Genesis, Neil Young, Tull....I'm sure you got the drift.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ya with towers just use LFE in and adjust gain to taste would work great. Nobody has to make the switch to bass management unless they want to...

Towers and LFE in? You mean towers with built in "subs"?

In any case if chosen carefully the sub might be able to provide crossover or perhaps a minidsp could be added. Something to consider before just adding a sub...

 

[snakeeyes]

Towers and LFE in? You mean towers with built in "subs"?

In any case if chosen carefully the sub might be able to provide crossover or perhaps a minidsp could be added. Something to consider before just adding a sub...

Point taken. I should not hand out advice without researching each piece of gear. LFE in the sub is used when you have a receiver that can handle the crossover duty as I sure you know. Some 2 channel receivers support that while others force you to crossover at the sub or via minidsp if you want to take care of it that way. There are several ways to connect and his gear may only support a couple ways. I know all the ways to integrate a sub but I believe he is following Kews lead and attacking the replacement of his main speakers rather than subs, since his music taste doesn’t require low bass. Personally I can’t imagine losing the lower octaves but I like dub step and I like a lot of bass in general on all types of music. Thanks.

 

[lovinthehd]

Point taken. I should not hand out advice without researching each piece of gear. LFE in the sub is used when you have a receiver that can handle the crossover duty as I sure you know. Some 2 channel receivers support that while others force you to crossover at the sub or via minidsp if you want to take care of it that way. There are several ways to connect and his gear may only support a couple ways. I know all the ways to integrate a sub but I believe he is following Kews lead and attacking the replacement of his main speakers rather than subs, since his music taste doesn’t require low bass. Personally I can’t imagine losing the lower octaves but I like dub step and I like a lot of bass in general on all types of music. Thanks.

He seems to have an older 2ch integrated amp, doubt it even has a pre-out for a sub let alone any filters.

 

[KEW]

... I believe he is following Kews lead and attacking the replacement of his main speakers rather than subs, since his music taste doesn’t require low bass. Personally I can’t imagine losing the lower octaves but I like dub step and I like a lot of bass in general on all types of music. Thanks.

Just want to make sure I am not misinterpreted.
The real crux of my post was: if you have problems with the sound of your speakers, fix that first!
I never intended to suggest he not get a sub (although I did float the possibility that depending on what he listens to and what speakers he gets, he might not need one).

But it seems like integrating and tuning a sub with speakers you are not happy with is putting the cart before the horse!

Now that we know what he listens to, the KEF Q900 he listed is down 3dB at 32Hz which could, indeed, be satisfactory for his bass content.

I would replace the C-500's.
IMHO, they are the weak link in your system.
You probably will want a sub, but if you only listen to music, it may not be that relevant depending on what speakers you get!
Our ears are much more critical in the midrange and I feel you should sort that out before chasing bass.
If this is HT, the sub becomes more relevant (for me, at least) just for the fun of LFE!