How does AVRX4400H compare to Yamaha RX A1070

[Andrein]

Audyssey DEQ is similar to the YPAO Volume, essentially a loudness contour that varies with volume....but Audyssey has several reference level offset settings so you can adjust for movies vs music (or due differing dynamic range attributes)....does YPAO do that?

Yes, i think ypao volume is like DEQ. But as far as i know it is just on or off. And I remember someone told that YPAO volume misses something else DEQ has. Though dont remember what it was

 

[Andrein]

I have A1070. Tried multiple point EQ. It worked better than my old A860. But I was not sure i liked the sound with or without EQ. In the end left just ypao volume and removed the rest of EQ. I think A1070 was better than A860 with determining speakers levels. A860 gave some random numbers sometimes.

Not sure maybe i am doingvsomething wrong but all ypao modes like Flat, Natural, etc cut the bass and then change the curve in mid and high frequences. In general the sound is more clean and transparent but some bass disappears(((

Have no direct experience w/Dirac. Just have read here and there that Dirac is supposed to be good. But, I have been so very happy w/Audyssey that I doubt that I will ever change. If so, it certainly would be a Yamaha. The 1070 does have YPAO RSC w/Multi-Point. Not to mention, Yamaha's reliability is legendary. Personally, I think that the OP would be happy with either one. Provided, both have the features that he is needing.



Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

I have A1070. Tried multiple point EQ. It worked better than my old A860. But I was not sure i liked the sound with or without EQ. In the end left just ypao volume and removed the rest of EQ. I think A1070 was better than A860 with determining speakers levels. A860 gave some random numbers sometimes.

Not sure maybe i am doingvsomething wrong but all ypao modes like Flat, Natural, etc cut the bass and then change the curve in mid and high frequences. In general the sound is more clean and transparent but some bass disappears(((

I always have to go back in a re-set my sub levels after running Audyssey. Sounds like you experience the same w/YPAO. Multi-Point merely widens the sweet spot just as Audyssey allows for 8-measurements. Of course, you can get up to 32 with a professional installer. BTW, I usually bump my center-channel up a few dB's as well. My hearing is not as good as when I was like 20.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[lovinthehd]

Not just the Offset settings, but each speaker Channel Level will adjust the magnitude.

Increasing the Speaker Channel Level (trims) will increase the DEQ.

Decreasing the trims will decrease DEQ.

Never experimented with that, think I've seen your comments where you raise all your trim levels, why did you do that? Just to tweak DEQ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Never experimented with that, think I've seen your comments where you raise all your trim levels, why did you do that? Just to tweak DEQ?

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

Yamaha A2000 series:

Yamaha 2070:
191W x 2Ch 8 ohms
259W x 2Ch 4 ohms
118W x 5Ch 8 ohms
45W x 7Ch 8 ohms

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2070-av-receiver-review-test-bench

Yamaha RX-A1020:

129W x 2Ch 8 ohms
173W x 2Ch 4 ohms
73W x 5Ch 8 ohms
65W x 7Ch 8 ohms

https://www.soundandvision.com/cont...receiver-ht-labs-measures#LxgToCXJuoEvfp5C.99

Denon X4200:
149W x 2Ch 8 ohms
239W x 2Ch 4 ohms
118W x 5Ch 8 ohms
91W x 7Ch 8 ohms

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x4200w-av-receiver-review-test-bench

The Denon X4000s has more power than the Yamaha A1000s.

As mentioned, in Direct mode, they will sound extremely similar.

Also as mentioned, the salient difference will be the EQ.

The Denon X4000 series has the same Audyssey XT32 as found in the $7,500 Denon AVP-A1HDCI and $7,000 McIntosh MX122 Pre-pros.

https://www.listenup.com/shop/mcintosh-mx122.html

Yamaha has their own EQ software.

Personally, the salient difference to me is the Audyssey Dynamic EQ (DEQ), which primarily boosts the mid-bass and slightly boost the treble to create what I think is a more Dynamic and Lively larger-than-life Sound.

Yamaha no longer makes the RX-A1020.

 

[KEW]

Yamaha A2000 series:

Yamaha 2070:
191W x 2Ch 8 ohms
259W x 2Ch 4 ohms
118W x 5Ch 8 ohms
45W x 7Ch 8 ohms

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2070-av-receiver-review-test-bench

Yamaha RX-A1020:

129W x 2Ch 8 ohms
173W x 2Ch 4 ohms
73W x 5Ch 8 ohms
65W x 7Ch 8 ohms

https://www.soundandvision.com/cont...receiver-ht-labs-measures#LxgToCXJuoEvfp5C.99

Denon X4200:
149W x 2Ch 8 ohms
239W x 2Ch 4 ohms
118W x 5Ch 8 ohms
91W x 7Ch 8 ohms

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x4200w-av-receiver-review-test-bench

The amazing difference I see in those specifications is that the Yamaha a2070 drops to a measly 45 watts per Channel with 7 channels driven while the Denon maintains a respectable 91 Watts with 7 channels driven!
Interestingly the lower tier Yamaha A1020 held up better with 65 watts into 7 channels. This concerns me that Yamaha seems to be making a decision in their newer units to decrease the power supply! I don't know if they're trying to keep heat down inside their unit or they are just having a tight competition for real estate and choose to take it out ofthe power supply. Either way, in my mind, that is a deal killer!

 

[Good4it]

Yamaha no longer makes the RX-A1020.



Oh no!

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, i think ypao volume is like DEQ. But as far as i know it is just on or off. And I remember someone told that YPAO volume misses something else DEQ has. Though dont remember what it was

Probably the adjustment for adjusting reference level for different material like I mentioned...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yamaha no longer makes the RX-A1020.

Of course not. Denon no longer makes the X4200 either.

We were extrapolation the A1020 to other A1000-series and the X4200 to other X4000-series.

 

[KEW]

Of course not. Denon no longer makes the X4200 either.

We were extrapolation the A1020 to other A1000-series and the X4200 to other X4000-series.

Given the A1020 outperforms the A2070 in 7 Channel mode, I have to wonder if it is a mistake to assume today's Yamahas have as much power as the earlier models. I have to believe that the A2020 powered 7 channels better than the A1020, but the the newer A2070 is worse than the A1020!

 

[snakeeyes]

That drop in power going from 5 to 7 ch on the 2070 makes me think the Outlaw Model 5000 amp could be a good option for the 5 bed channels if going beyond 5.1.

 

[Andrein]

Interesting thing. Weight difference. A1070 lost 1.3kg from A1020, but A2070 just lost 0.1 kg!

Given the A1020 outperforms the A2070 in 7 Channel mode, I have to wonder if it is a mistake to assume today's Yamahas have as much power as the earlier models. I have to believe the A2020 powered 7 channels better than the A1020, but the A2070 is worse than the A1020!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Given the A1020 outperforms the A2070 in 7 Channel mode, I have to wonder if it is a mistake to assume today's Yamahas have as much power as the earlier models. I have to believe the A2020 powered 7 channels better than the A1020, but the A2070 is worse than the A1020!

Yeah, I also tend to think that the power performance of the newer Yamaha’s may not be as good as the older models.

It may be a trend for all AVRs, but the Denon X3400 seems to have pretty good numbers.

Denon X3400:
147 watts x 2Ch 8 ohms
106 watts x 5Ch 8 ohms
80 watts x 7Ch 8 ohms

Yamaha 3060:
186 watts x 2Ch 8 ohms
127 watts x 5Ch 8 ohms
53 watts x 7Ch 8 ohms

Yamaha 2070:
191W x 2Ch 8 ohms
118W x 5Ch 8 ohms
45W x 7Ch 8 ohms

Yamaha RX-A1020:
129W x 2Ch 8 ohms
73W x 5Ch 8 ohms
65W x 7Ch 8 ohms

Denon X1200:
126 watts x 2Ch 8 ohms
78 watts x 5Ch 8 ohms
57 watts x 7Ch 8 ohms

Denon X4200:
149W x 2Ch 8 ohms
118W x 5Ch 8 ohms
91W x 7Ch 8 ohms

What’s surprising is that the lowly Denon X1000 series ($299 when on sale new) has about the same power @ 2Ch, 5Ch, & 7Ch as the Yamaha A1000 series!

 

[PENG]

I would like to make a few points on the rated vs measured power output, but all based mainly on my educated guess:

- We can reasonably extrapolate (from measurements of the old to new models) Denon/Marantz bench tests from the AVR-X4000W/H/SR6000 series and up since the AVR-X4000/SR6009 but not the older ones such as the 4310, 4510 that have stronger power amp sections. The same should apply to the Yamaha RX-A1000 through 3000 series.

- Cannot put too much weight on the effect of the weight on output power because of heat sink improvements and probably the use of thinner and lighter material (e.g. Marantz maybe using more plastic on the enclosures) and fans, the newest Denon AVRs now have two fans, that would have allowed the designers to shed some weight. Yamaha seems to have gone the other way for some reasons, since the RX-A1/2/3010 as I noticed they have gotten heavier. I haven't done anything to try and guess the reasons, as I have been interested in them due to my preference of Audyssey over YPAO.

- ACD output test, especially the 7 channel driven results, are not that important. It depends a lot on how the manufacturers set up their protective circuitry. Yamaha seemed to set theirs up to shutdown at lower level and quicker, so for the so called "continuous" measurements that probably meant to be for 5 seconds (THX?) or up to 5 minutes (FTC?) and that might have put them in disadvantage on the S&V's 5,7 channel driven test results. I have tried many times searching for the various definitions of "continuous" and found nothing conclusive, but I am sure Gene could shed some light on that. It is most frequently associated with using continuous sine waves, 1 kHz or full bandwidth 20-20,000 Hz for "x" minutes, definitely not meant to be literally continuous.

AH has at least one good article (such as this ONE) on the all channel driven topic for those interested to read. Even if you are too busy, I highly recommend you at least read page 5.

 

[3db]

- ACD output test, especially the 7 channel driven results, are not that important. It depends a lot on how the manufacturers set up their protective circuitry. Yamaha seemed to set theirs up to shutdown at lower level and quicker, so for the so called "continuous" measurements that probably meant to be for 5 seconds (THX?) or up to 5 minutes (FTC?) and that might have put them in disadvantage on the S&V's 5,7 channel driven test results. I have tried many times searching for the various definitions of "continuous" and found nothing conclusive, but I am sure Gene could shed some light on that. It is most frequently associated with using continuous sine waves, 1 kHz or full bandwidth 20-20,000 Hz for "x" minutes, definitely not meant to be literally continuous.

AH has at least one good article (such as this ONE) on the all channel driven topic for those interested to read. Even if you are too busy, I highly recommend you at least read page 5.

I don't put much value in ACD tests either. Yamaha is on the conservative side in their power delivery specs and IHO, I believe that conservative attitude is reflected in the sensitivity of their protection network making it more sensitive than it needs to be.

 

[PENG]

I don't put much value in ACD tests either. Yamaha is on the conservative side in their power delivery specs and IHO, I believe that conservative attitude is reflected in the sensitivity of their protection network making it more sensitive than it needs to be.

You have a few RX-V units, and none of them ever shutdown on you when watching movies right? We rest our case. People worry too much!!