Entertain Me........ McIntosh

[AcuDefTechGuy]

don't bother with those 'kiddy' amps, get a pair of these and call it a day .......................

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/amplifiers/MC125KW

If you're going to go separates, better go big!

No diet Cokes or imitation cheese here!

 

[Verdinut]

If you believe DAC makes a difference, you are better off going with external DAC and get a bare bone integrated amp. I found unless you get into really high end stuff, the build in DACs are usually the lower cost, closer to entry level ones. An external $300 DAC+ a $599 AVR-X3400H or $799 X4400H will be much better value, even if you don't need the extra amp channels.

According to Gene, in his review of the A-S801, it has a very decent DAC chip:

"The fact that the A-S801 has a solid amp section isn't the end of the story. Yamaha included a digital section employing an ESS Technology 32-bit ES9010K2M Sabre DAC capable of supporting native DSD resolutions (2.8 MHz / 5.6 MHz) and PCM (384 kHz / 32-bit) via a USB-B as well as coax and toslink digital inputs. Yamaha took it one step further by employing its own clocking scheme to reduce jitter. Analog purists will be happy to hear that the A-S801 includes a MM phono section for vinyl playback."

 

[PENG]

"you are better off going with external DAC and get a bare bone integrated amp." -- can you give me an example of what you'd recommend? What's a bare bones integrated amp?

Integrated:
NAD C275BEE, Anthem Integrated 225, Azur 851A.

DAC:
Xduoo XD-05
Topping DX7
Chord Mojo
Nuforce DAC80
Oppo HA-2 SE

Any of the above combination will cost more than the A-S801. If cost is the main consideration, then again, it seems ridiculous to use a 7 channel AVR when you only need two channels, but it does represent much more value.

AVR-X3400H, $600, AVR-X4300W or X4400H for <$1200, or as low as $799/$899 if you can wait.

 

[PENG]

According to Gene, in his review of the A-S801, it has a very decent DAC chip:

"The fact that the A-S801 has a solid amp section isn't the end of the story. Yamaha included a digital section employing an ESS Technology 32-bit ES9010K2M Sabre DAC capable of supporting native DSD resolutions (2.8 MHz / 5.6 MHz) and PCM (384 kHz / 32-bit) via a USB-B as well as coax and toslink digital inputs. Yamaha took it one step further by employing its own clocking scheme to reduce jitter. Analog purists will be happy to hear that the A-S801 includes a MM phono section for vinyl playback."

Of course the ES9010 is a decent DAC chip. I just don't like the fact that they would save a few dollars by not using the higher end ES9018, or at least the ES9016 found in their AVRs. That concerns me as it makes me wonder what else did they do in their cost cutting efforts. Also, if I remember right, the ES9010K2M is for the USB DAC only, they cheapened up on the Optical and Coax inputs using a lower end DAC, one that is used on the lower to mid end AVRs.

Thanks to eargiant, we already know the A-S801 have some old multichannel DSP chips in it too, those found more commonly in their AVRs. To me, low cost (relatively speaking) integrated amps are just another compromise like AVRs, less the video stuff and a tuner, but much less cost effective because the economy of scale is not on their side. Aside from that, I am sure the A-S801 is a great little amp and offers good accuracy/transparency, just don't feel it offers good value without a good discount.

 

[CB22]

Of course the ES9010 is a decent DAC chip. I just don't like the fact that they would save a few dollars by not using the higher end ES9018, or at least the ES9016 found in their AVRs. That concerns me as it makes me wonder what else did they do in their cost cutting efforts. Also, if I remember right, the ES9010K2M is for the USB DAC only, they cheapened up on the Optical and Coax inputs using a lower end DAC, one that is used on the lower to mid end AVRs.

Thanks to eargiant, we already know the A-S801 have some old multichannel DSP chips in it too, those found more commonly in their AVRs. To me, low cost (relatively speaking) integrated amps are just another compromise like AVRs, less the video stuff and a tuner, but much less cost effective because the economy of scale is not on their side. Aside from that, I am sure the A-S801 is a great little amp and offers good accuracy/transparency, just don't feel it offers good value without a good discount.

IMO, I think then 801 has the advantage because the USB. If I did get I would only use for 2 channel music and nothing more. What's the deal with folks not liking USB? I am i missing something here? One of the major things I'm looking for is to get my high res-digital music from my computer into the amp in a somewhat simple way. The Azur 851A does looks good and has the advantage of the XLRs but lacks the usb. So if I had the Azur 851A, how would i get the music from my computer into the 581A?

I do like what your saying about the AVR though, better DACs + Down the line if I ever get another TV, this would be nice to have. Right now, I'm trying to keep the music and the video separate.

 

[PENG]

IMO, I think then 801 has the advantage because the USB. If I did get I would only use for 2 channel music and nothing more. What's the deal with folks not liking USB? I am i missing something here? One of the major things I'm looking for is to get my high res-digital music from my computer into the amp in a somewhat simple way. The Azur 851A does looks good and has the advantage of the XLRs but lacks the usb. So if I had the Azur 851A, how would i get the music from my computer into the 581A?

I do like what your saying about the AVR though, better DACs + Down the line if I ever get another TV, this would be nice to have. Right now, I'm trying to keep the music and the video separate.

Any of the DAC I listed will allow you to play music from your computer via asynchronous usb, to the integrated amp, or avr's analog inputs. All of them have both usb, optical and/coax digital inputs, and have higher end DAC chips than those in the A-S801.

 

[CB22]

Any of the DAC I listed will allow you to play music from your computer via asynchronous usb, to the integrated amp, or avr's analog inputs. All of them have both usb, optical and/coax digital inputs, and have higher end DAC chips than those in the A-S801.

 

[<eargiant]

Of course the ES9010 is a decent DAC chip. I just don't like the fact that they would save a few dollars by not using the higher end ES9018, or at least the ES9016 found in their AVRs. That concerns me as it makes me wonder what else did they do in their cost cutting efforts. Also, if I remember right, the ES9010K2M is for the USB DAC only, they cheapened up on the Optical and Coax inputs using a lower end DAC, one that is used on the lower to mid end AVRs.

Thanks to eargiant, we already know the A-S801 have some old multichannel DSP chips in it too, those found more commonly in their AVRs. To me, low cost (relatively speaking) integrated amps are just another compromise like AVRs, less the video stuff and a tuner, but much less cost effective because the economy of scale is not on their side. Aside from that, I am sure the A-S801 is a great little amp and offers good accuracy/transparency, just don't feel it offers good value without a good discount.

But doesn't the A-S801 have more outputs per channel, beefier filter capacitance and much better heatsinks than the typical ~$750 AVR? In the long run things like that will make much more of a difference than the difference between the ES9018 & ES9016 chips. Besides, the owner can still use an external DAC if they choose when the ES9030 is released . Just like you can bypass a built-in phono stage if you decide to upgrade to a better external unit.

I use my A-S801 to drive large 4 ohms speakers to high SPLs and it doesn't break a sweat. No need for multiple external fans. I mainly bought this amp for the convenience.

Macbook Pro>A-S801>Speakers=Done.

 

[PENG]

But doesn't the A-S801 have more outputs per channel, beefier filter capacitance and much better heatsinks than the typical ~$750 AVR? In the long run things like that will make much more of a difference than the difference between the ES9018 & ES9016 chips. Besides, the owner can still use an external DAC if they choose when the ES9030 is released . Just like you can bypass a built-in phono stage if you decide to upgrade to a better external unit.

First of all, the ES9016 has much better specs than the 9010 found in the A-S801. Based on AH measurements, the A-S801 has approx. 1 dB higher output, two channel driven, 4 ohms, FBW than something like the AVR-X3300W. It has lower THD, but the Denon 3000 series are known to have THD+N so low that even dogs won't complain (borrowed that from Gene). The Denon AVR-X4200W, X4300H (I bet X4400H too toon) had been as low as $799 brand new, those would beat (practically same) the A-S801 in 1,2 channel driven into 4 ohms.

Macbook Pro>A-S801>Speakers=Done.

Very true, but you can get a pocket size external usb dac headphone amp for $100-$200, even with the same ES9010K2M iirc+Macbook pro and done too with the AVR-X3300W. That's an added piece, but you gain portability and usability (listen to hifi sound with smartphone/headphone). With a D&M AVR, you also gain Audyssey XT32 with SubEQHT, more manual EQ options, streaming, direct play from USB thumb drive. That's just a few useful features even for 2 channel applications, aside from the obvious advantage on the video side and many other convenience features.

Everyone may have good reasons to go for a 2 channel integrated amp, I did too just last year when that little NAD was on sale for less than C$500/US$400 and for my desktop speakers there was no room for an AVR. The A-S801 is quite good if you can get a brand new one for $750 ($899.95 Amazon price). If it fits my need I would not hesitate to get one either but I would not expect it to sound any better than a Denon 3000 or Marantz 6000 series, especially after you shared the schematics/service manual. So depending on an OP's need and the way the questions are asked, I wouldn't always bring up the integrated vs AVR thing.

 

[KEW]

I had not seen this integrated amp before!

Not suggesting it as a superior option, just another option with USB DAC. Also has 9010 DAC.

Since when has Yamaha spec'd power at 1kHz and 10% THD!

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamau671bl/yamaha-a-u671-integrated-stereo-amplifier-with-usb-dac-function/1.html

In a way, I feel this amp drives home the idea that Integrated amps are well behind AVR's for value.
Aside from looking good, this looks pretty poor for power and has little in the way of features/flexibility.
I would have expected at least a third input.
The simple 7 button remote does have a neat futuristic look.
It might be the best amp for someone looking for the ultimate in simplicity as long as it has the inputs they needed and easy to drive speakers/low volume!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In a way, I feel this amp drives home the idea that Integrated amps are well behind AVR's for value.

I think just about every Integrated Amp or Separates component falls short of value compared to some AVRs on sale (like a $1K AVR on sale for $600 or a $1500 AVR on sale for $800).

If people absolutely must have no more than 2Ch (the idea of having 7Ch of amps inside the AVR irks them to no end), then I think a Stereo Receiver may be a better option in terms of power output.

For example, a Harman Kardon HK-3770 has 120W x 2Ch for $450.

https://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-HK-3770-Connectivity/dp/B00I5QBPVY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1524766795&sr=1-1&keywords=harman+kardon+hk+3770&dpID=31HKs5b0BLL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


A Yamaha 303 has 100W x 2Ch for $300.

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-R-N303BL-Stereo-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B074F246M9/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1524766865&sr=1-4&keywords=yamaha+stereo+receiver&dpID=31hOn3NHjpL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Of course, the difference between the "Integrated Amp" vs "Stereo Receiver" is that the Stereo Receiver has the AM/FM tuner, which may also irk some people to no end.

That nasty tuner will taint the purity of sound.

 

[PENG]

I had not seen this integrated amp before!

Not suggesting it as a superior option, just another option with USB DAC. Also has 9010 DAC.

Since when has Yamaha spec'd power at 1kHz and 10% THD!

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamau671bl/yamaha-a-u671-integrated-stereo-amplifier-with-usb-dac-function/1.html

In a way, I feel this amp drives home the idea that Integrated amps are well behind AVR's for value.
Aside from looking good, this looks pretty poor for power and has little in the way of features/flexibility.
I would have expected at least a third input.
The simple 7 button remote does have a neat futuristic look.
It might be the best amp for someone looking for the ultimate in simplicity as long as it has the inputs they needed and easy to drive speakers/low volume!

That's a good find! I think practically speaking, in many (not all) cases, the best and latest integrated are the 1-3 year outdated mid range AVRs. Examples are: Yamaha RX-A1050, 60, Marantz SR6010-12, Denon AVR-X3300W, X3400H, X4200W, X4300H. Ignore the video features and the extra amp channels, close the eyes, and the $599-$799 units will sound just like some $1,000 integrated. A $20 external fan should allow such AVRs to last as long as the $1,000 integrated, if not longer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have the feeling that telling people not to buy Integrated Amps is like telling people not to buy Turntables.

Some people just gotta have it.

Resistance is futile?

 

[CB22]

Anybody every owned one of these? Your thoughts?
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=HiFiComponents&SubCatId=0&ProductId=HDAMP1

Despise lacking power and being costly, it seems like it has a pretty good DAC. + IMO it looks better than a clunky AVR.

 

[CB22]

I have the feeling that telling people not to buy Integrated Amps is like telling people not to buy Turntables.

Some people just gotta have it.

Resistance is futile?

YES!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

YES!

Well, why didn't you say so in the first place?

What about other separates alternative?

Parasound 275v2 90W Stereo Amp ($595)+ Parasound 2100 Stereo Preamp ($695) = $1,290?

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAC2100

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAC275V2

Wouldn't this be more "pure" and "separate" than having some internal amps?

 

[Verdinut]

Anybody every owned one of these? Your thoughts?
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=HiFiComponents&SubCatId=0&ProductId=HDAMP1

Despise lacking power and being costly, it seems like it has a pretty good DAC. + IMO it looks better than a clunky AVR.

IMO, if you insist on getting an integrated stereo amp, you would be better off with the Yamaha A-S801 which outputs a clean 105w/ch @ 8 ohms. With the money saved, you could get an external DAC, should you not be satisfied with the ESS DAC that comes with it.

I understand audiophiles who insist on having stereo equipment. They don't have to deal with the complexities of setting up a surround AVR which is not a Plug & Play device.

 

[CB22]

Well, why didn't you say so in the first place?

What about other separates alternative?

Parasound 275v2 90W Stereo Amp ($595)+ Parasound 2100 Stereo Preamp ($695) = $1,290?

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAC2100

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAC275V2

Like I said, I'm toying with the idea. Logic tells me to get the AVR for more flexibility in the future. However, I think it be nice to have a stereo stereo set up where I can't get distracted by any video stuff (I have ADHD off the wazoooooooo).

OH MY GOD a Parasound product for less than $1000..... Jaw just dropped.

 

[panteragstk]

First of all, the ES9016 has much better specs than the 9010 found in the A-S801. Based on AH measurements, the A-S801 has approx. 1 dB higher output, two channel driven, 4 ohms, FBW than something like the AVR-X3300W. It has lower THD, but the Denon 3000 series are known to have THD+N so low that even dogs won't complain (borrowed that from Gene). The Denon AVR-X4200W, X4300H (I bet X4400H too toon) had been as low as $799 brand new, those would beat (practically same) the A-S801 in 1,2 channel driven into 4 ohms.



Very true, but you can get a pocket size external usb dac headphone amp for $100-$200, even with the same ES9010K2M iirc+Macbook pro and done too with the AVR-X3300W. That's an added piece, but you gain portability and usability (listen to hifi sound with smartphone/headphone). With a D&M AVR, you also gain Audyssey XT32 with SubEQHT, more manual EQ options, streaming, direct play from USB thumb drive. That's just a few useful features even for 2 channel applications, aside from the obvious advantage on the video side and many other convenience features.

Everyone may have good reasons to go for a 2 channel integrated amp, I did too just last year when that little NAD was on sale for less than C$500/US$400 and for my desktop speakers there was no room for an AVR. The A-S801 is quite good if you can get a brand new one for $750 ($899.95 Amazon price). If it fits my need I would not hesitate to get one either but I would not expect it to sound any better than a Denon 3000 or Marantz 6000 series, especially after you shared the schematics/service manual. So depending on an OP's need and the way the questions are asked, I wouldn't always bring up the integrated vs AVR thing.

I have to say that my X4300H is fantastic for 2ch audio all playing off my media server or Google Play Music.

I don't have it in a 2ch only rig, but my front 3 in my theater are quite good for 2ch listening. Not too shabby at 7.2.4 either

 

[panteragstk]

I had not seen this integrated amp before!

Not suggesting it as a superior option, just another option with USB DAC. Also has 9010 DAC.

Since when has Yamaha spec'd power at 1kHz and 10% THD!

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamau671bl/yamaha-a-u671-integrated-stereo-amplifier-with-usb-dac-function/1.html

In a way, I feel this amp drives home the idea that Integrated amps are well behind AVR's for value.
Aside from looking good, this looks pretty poor for power and has little in the way of features/flexibility.
I would have expected at least a third input.
The simple 7 button remote does have a neat futuristic look.
It might be the best amp for someone looking for the ultimate in simplicity as long as it has the inputs they needed and easy to drive speakers/low volume!

I almost pulled the trigger on one of those for my office setup. That was until I found my little kanto USB DAC amp. I'm so close to my speakers that Yamaha would have been a waste. The kanto is quite small as well which keeps my desk clean.