Subwoofer Speaker Replacement

[Gigahertz]

Hello all,

I'm looking for a little help from my audiophile enthusiasts. My subwoofer speaker went south and I'm in need of a replacement speaker for my old Adire Audio Shiva, which was fairly well balanced for both Music & HT. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

My current setup is as follows:

142.5L / 5 cu. ft. Ported Enclosure
Dual Flared Port: 4" W x 18" L

Hypex HS200, 200 W @ 4 ohms
Subsonic-filter: 20Hz / -3dB, 24dB / Octave
Bassboost Frequency: 20Hz - 50Hz
Bassboost Level: 0 to +6dB
Filter: Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/Octave

12" Shiva TS Parameters:
Fs= 21.6Hz
Re= 2.9 ohms [with dual voice coils wired in parallel]
Z= 4 ohms
Le= 2.12 mH
Qms= 6.5
Qes= 0.4
Qts= 0.38
Vas= 151L
Sd= 481cm^2
Xmax= 16.4mm
Pmax= 650W
Spl= 87.3 (1W/1m)

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello all,

I'm looking for a little help from my audiophile enthusiasts. My subwoofer speaker went south and I'm in need of a replacement speaker for my old Adire Audio Shiva, which was fairly well balanced for both Music & HT. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

My current setup is as follows:

142.5L / 5 cu. ft. Ported Enclosure
Dual Flared Port: 4" W x 18" L

Hypex HS200, 200 W @ 4 ohms
Subsonic-filter: 20Hz / -3dB, 24dB / Octave
Bassboost Frequency: 20Hz - 50Hz
Bassboost Level: 0 to +6dB
Filter: Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/Octave

12" Shiva TS Parameters:
Fs= 21.6Hz
Re= 2.9 ohms [with dual voice coils wired in parallel]
Z= 4 ohms
Le= 2.12 mH
Qms= 6.5
Qes= 0.4
Qts= 0.38
Vas= 151L
Sd= 481cm^2
Xmax= 16.4mm
Pmax= 650W
Spl= 87.3 (1W/1m)

You will need a new driver and a new box. There are too many T/S parameters, that finding a speaker to do the job is not successful and pretty much always a waste of time.

 

[j_garcia]

Unfortunate as the old Adire's were very good subs. I had a Tempest for many years. Also agree that finding a suitable replacement driver may be a difficult task, however there are plenty of good options out now for similarly musical subs. I'd probably start with:

www.rythmikaudio.com

 

[Winkleswizard]

Hello all,

I'm looking for a little help from my audiophile enthusiasts. My subwoofer speaker went south and I'm in need of a replacement speaker for my old Adire Audio Shiva, which was fairly well balanced for both Music & HT. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

My current setup is as follows:

142.5L / 5 cu. ft. Ported Enclosure
Dual Flared Port: 4" W x 18" L

Hypex HS200, 200 W @ 4 ohms
Subsonic-filter: 20Hz / -3dB, 24dB / Octave
Bassboost Frequency: 20Hz - 50Hz
Bassboost Level: 0 to +6dB
Filter: Linkwitz-Riley 24dB/Octave

12" Shiva TS Parameters:
Fs= 21.6Hz
Re= 2.9 ohms [with dual voice coils wired in parallel]
Z= 4 ohms
Le= 2.12 mH
Qms= 6.5
Qes= 0.4
Qts= 0.38
Vas= 151L
Sd= 481cm^2
Xmax= 16.4mm
Pmax= 650W
Spl= 87.3 (1W/1m)

A quick search of the Bassbox database finds 2 comparable drivers. One is Dayton Audio RSS265HF-4 and the other is a Stryker 12PFPMF. Stryker is now Audio Elegance and I did not find that driver, but you might contact them and see if they have a good match. The Dayton is 10 inch driver so would likely require some woodworking...

Once you narrow down your choice, let me know and can model to see if it really is worthwhile effort. Further mods may be in order...

Ww

 

[Winkleswizard]

Actually, a better match is a Peerless 830847. Not sure about availability, but Madisound should be able to help.

Ww

 

[Gigahertz]

Actually, a better match is a Peerless 830847. Not sure about availability, but Madisound should be able to help.

Ww

Thanks for the reply! I'll check out the Peerless. How does the Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 look in bassbox?

 

[Winkleswizard]

Thanks for the reply! I'll check out the Peerless. How does the Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 look in bassbox?

The RSS315HF is ok, probably more for home theater than music. I have not had the time to model the Shiva woofer, but should give me a better baseline.

Was talking to PE folks today and they coukd not help on the Peerless, but suggested the Ultimax 12. My initial look was promising but it is not in my current BassBox database. I need to do a driver update and will let you know.

Should have some time to model more this weekend. Spent most of today on taxes and need to wrap them up first!

Ww

 

[Gigahertz]

The RSS315HF is ok, probably more for home theater than music. I have not had the time to model the Shiva woofer, but should give me a better baseline.

Was talking to PE folks today and they coukd not help on the Peerless, but suggested the Ultimax 12. My initial look was promising but it is not in my current BassBox database. I need to do a driver update and will let you know.

Should have some time to model more this weekend. Spent most of today on taxes and need to wrap them up first!

Ww

Just got home...Unfortunately the Peerless 830847 has been discontinued. I spoke with a Tech at Parts Express today and he said with my enclosure that I would be better off with the RSS315HF-4 than the UM12-22. He said that the UM12-22 would have more output, but it may be a little boomy. And that's one thing I don't want is boomy.
I downloaded WinISD, but my graph doesn't look like the one that the PE tech sent me. I don't think that he's taking my Hypex HS200 High Pass filter into account. Or it is quite possible that I'm doing it all wrong...In the attached I compared the Shiva, UM12-22 and RSS315HS-4 with the Linkwtz-Riley 4th order high pass filter. I also attached my amplifier specs.

Hopefully you're getting money back from Uncle Sam...I broke even this year. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Thank you Ww, I really appreciate your efforts!

 

[Winkleswizard]

Modeled your original design and the RSS315HF falls short of it. A Titanic 12 MK II is a better match and I might have a used one.

As the units are different for the y-axis, not surprised that WinISD does not match BassBox graph from PE folks.

Give me an idea if you are willing to modify the box and whether you need/want a subwoofer to go as low as the original did...

Ww

 

[Gigahertz]

How much are you asking for the Titanic 12 MK II?
How much would I need to modify the box?

 

[Winkleswizard]

It is actually a Titanic 1200 but initial check is a decent match. It has been in light duty in my living room where the enclosure mainly serves as a TV stand. As it stands, you would need to close one of the ports. It is .1 inch larger in diameter than the Shiva, so may fit without alteration or some slight sanding. Need to know a bit more about your box to be sure.

If you think you are interested, let’s take to discussion and will talk it over...

Ww

 

[Gigahertz]

I built the Adire Audio Shiva enclosure. Please see attached for details.

142.5L / 5 cu. ft. Ported Enclosure

Dual Flared Port: 4" W x 18" L

 

[TLS Guy]

Modeled your original design and the RSS315HF falls short of it. A Titanic 12 MK II is a better match and I might have a used one.

As the units are different for the y-axis, not surprised that WinISD does not match BassBox graph from PE folks.

Give me an idea if you are willing to modify the box and whether you need/want a subwoofer to go as low as the original did...

Ww

Actually either would work. For the Dayton RSS315HF he has t0 close one port. For the Titanic close 1 and extend the other.

 

[Gigahertz]

TLS Guy,
My enclosure only has one port.
The port is flared on both ends
and is 4" W x 18" L. That said would I need to seal that port if I went with the RSS315HF-4? Thanks! GHz

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS Guy,
My enclosure only has one port.
The port is flared on both ends
and is 4" W x 18" L. That said would I need to seal that port if I went with the RSS315HF-4? Thanks! GHz

No, but you would need to shorten it to 9 3/4"

Ideally you should add some bricks to the enclosure and lower the volume to 4 cu.ft and the 4" diameter port should be 19" long flared at both ends for 4 cu.ft. volume. That is the optimal extended bass alignment for that driver.

You must understand the performance will not be as good as your previous driver. F3 will be 29 Hz.
The sub will still sound nice and tight. Your current box is definitely too big for that driver ideally.

On the other hand the Titanic 12" is an uncannily perfect match for that box and would need no modification. F3 would be 27 Hz.

Either will work but the Titanic is the better option by a short margin.

 

[Gigahertz]

No, but you would need to shorten it to 9 3/4"

Ideally you should add some bricks to the enclosure and lower the volume to 4 cu.ft and the 4" diameter port should be 19" long flared at both ends for 4 cu.ft. volume. That is the optimal extended bass alignment for that driver.

You must understand the performance will not be as good as your previous driver. F3 will be 29 Hz.
The sub will still sound nice and tight. Your current box is definitely too big for that driver ideally.

On the other hand the Titanic 12" is an uncannily perfect match for that box and would need no modification. F3 would be 27 Hz.

Either will work but the Titanic is the better option by a short margin.

Thank you very much for taking the time and modeling these speakers. Unfortunately Ww doesn't have an Mk II he has a Titanic 1200. I'll probably wind up going with the RSS315HF-4 and doing the mods that you proposed, but can you do me one more favor? Would be be so kind as to model the Dayton Audio UM12-22 to see if I can get a lower F3 by using it? Thanks again, GHz

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you very much for taking the time and modeling these speakers. Unfortunately Ww doesn't have an Mk II he has a Titanic 1200. I'll probably wind up going with the RSS315HF-4 and doing the mods that you proposed, but can you do me one more favor? Would be be so kind as to model the Dayton Audio UM12-22 to see if I can get a lower F3 by using it? Thanks again, GHz

It is a waste of time modelling that driver. It is high Qts and well really boom of you port it. Fs/Qes is 37 for that driver.

If that ratio is less then 50 it is only suitable for sealed alignment. If the ration is over 100 then some form of loading is required, reflex, TL or horn.

If the ratio is 50 to 100 it can go either way. However the nearer to 50 the less good the results of porting, and the converse is true.

In any event Fs for that driver is 26Hz, and so even with porting F3 would be above 30. The driver is intended for sealed with Eq.

 

[Gigahertz]

It is a waste of time modelling that driver. It is high Qts and well really boom of you port it. Fs/Qes is 37 for that driver.

If that ratio is less then 50 it is only suitable for sealed alignment. If the ration is over 100 then some form of loading is required, reflex, TL or horn.

If the ratio is 50 to 100 it can go either way. However the nearer to 50 the less good the results of porting, and the converse is true.

In any event Fs for that driver is 26Hz, and so even with porting F3 would be above 30. The driver is intended for sealed with Eq.

Ok, thanks anyway. And thank you for sharing your knowledge. The search continues...

 

[TLS Guy]

Ok, thanks anyway. And thank you for sharing your knowledge. The search continues...

I did spend sometime looking at sub drivers, and that Dayton fits the bill the best.

If you want something better than what we have come up with, then my original advice stands. You need to build a new sub, which is the high road. My 18" Dayton sub design would give you what I think you are looking for.

Modding this sub will always be a second best option.

 

[Winkleswizard]

Now that my taxes are filed, had a chance to fully model your existing enclosure using the Dayton RSS315HF-4 in BassBox Pro.

Would not bother with any mods when the results look this good. The sim is flatter than with the original Shiva and with a lower f3! Would still be willing to sell the Titanic, but if you are willing to wait, go with the RS315HF-4...

Ww