DIY 2 Way Speaker Kits

DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
Hi I am getting ready to make a 2 way speaker for a stereo listening room . I have 4.1 set up now. I removed center channel because I only listen to music now . And have four Fountek 6.5" with 3" NeoCD ribbon tweeters fronts at 30 degrees and sides at 10 degrees 12" sub at front 0 degrees from sweet spot. Tweets at ear level and I know that I have only done a few things right in this room and I am amazed at the results . Thinking I could get away with a pair of Bi-amped 2 ways set at 30 degrees from sweet spot. Right now I am looking at 8" woofer and 1" soft dome tweeter. Madison Sound will make cross overs for any speakers you pair together.Right now I am thinking of Scan Speak Tweeter D2905/9500 and I am stuck between two Scan Speak woofers .Either the Scan Speak 22W/8534G00 or the Scan Speak 21W/8555 . Any help in this matter would be welcome. Any DIY guys in here ? I have the wood working tools and skills just not the cross over math skills . I can solder and assemble just not the math . madison sound with do the math and wire diagrams and all the hardware.
 
DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
Why just use existing design like this one:
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-audio-speaker-kits/home-audio-components/home-audio-7-15-woofers/cobalt-kit.html
I can assure you, that it's designer, Curt Campbell knows how to design excellent speakers and it's using a ScanSpeak H206 tweeter
Why just use existing design like this one:
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-audio-speaker-kits/home-audio-components/home-audio-7-15-woofers/cobalt-kit.html
I can assure you, that it's designer, Curt Campbell knows how to design excellent speakers and it's using a ScanSpeak H206 tweeter
Thanks for the link . my main goal is to be able to Bi- amp the speakers and get rid of my Sub and still have a good mid range and get bellow 50 hz when playing Crystal Method and other guys that can hit the highs and lows
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Active speakers with an electronic crossover (using something like a miniDSP 2x4) might work with your current amp....what are you using now for amp?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Hi I am getting ready to make a 2 way speaker for a stereo listening room . I have 4.1 set up now. I removed center channel because I only listen to music now . And have four Fountek 6.5" with 3" NeoCD ribbon tweeters…

… Right now I am looking at 8" woofer and 1" soft dome tweeter… Scan Speak Tweeter D2905/9500 and either the Scan Speak 22W/8534G00 or the Scan Speak 21W/8555 woofers.
Although Scan Speak drivers are very good in general, I'd avoid using a 2-way design combining an 8" woofer with a 1" tweeter. If you pay a high enough price you can find a 1" dome tweeter that operates at low frequencies (in the 1 to 2 kHz range) without high distortion. But you will not find an 8" woofer that can operate as high as those frequencies without beaming.

By beaming, I mean it may produce good sound directly in front of the driver, on axis, but off-axis (off to the side) at angles of roughly 30° or more, it's sound will drop off significantly. At the crossover frequency, where the woofer & tweeter are both equally loud, the tweeter will spread sound widely while the woofer will confine it to a narrow range. A speaker that disperses sound widely across most of the audio range, especially the mid range, creates the illusion of sound coming from outside the speaker cabinet. In stereo this contributes to a realistic sounding image with a wide and detailed sound stage. If the woofer and tweeter distribute sound unevenly, this image tends to get lost.

People often respond to this by saying 'I only listen while sitting directly in front of my speakers and not off to the side'. They're missing the point. A large part of a speaker's wide stereo image is caused by their off-axis sound reflecting from walls. Speakers that beam sound cannot do this as well as speakers that disperse it widely. So, even if you only sit directly in front of your speakers, or in the middle between them, you could miss out on a significant part of the illusion of a wide stereo image if you use 8" woofers in a 2-way design.

You mentioned the 2-way speakers you now have. Are you going from the Fountek 6.5" woofers to an 8" woofer mainly to get better bass response? Or do you have a different reason?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
You can see what I mean by beaming in the frequency response graphs that Scan Speak provides (see below). In both graphs, the black line is the frequency response measured while the microphone is on-axis, directly in front of the woofer (probably 1 meter away). The green and red lines are the off-axis responses, at 30° and 45° off of center.

All 3 lines for both woofers are together at low frequencies. At about 1000 Hz and higher, the red and green lines drop lower, with the red line dropping faster than the green line. To avoid beaming, you would choose a crossover frequency well below 1000 Hz. With a 4th order crossover, some where closer to 500 Hz (one octave lower than 1000 Hz) could work. With a 2nd order crossover, you have to go even lower, from roughly 250 to 500 Hz.

Asking a 1" dome tweeter to sound good at 500 Hz or lower is a lot. That's why most 2-way speakers use smaller woofers.

And I only talked about avoiding beaming. See the large ugly looking peaks at higher frequencies, about 2000-3000 Hz? That is the woofer sound breaking up. Trust me, you do not want to hear that noise from your speakers. You would have to keep the crossover frequency well below that range.

Scan Speak 22W

Scan Speak 21W
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
FWIW, the two kits that BSA suggested don't look bad. I only looked at the designs quickly, but both Curt Cambell and Jeff Bagby are good speaker designers who are well aware of the problems of beaming that I mentioned above. Their designs and woofer/tweeter choices may be what DIY Junky is looking for.
 
DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
Although Scan Speak drivers are very good in general, I'd avoid using a 2-way design combining an 8" woofer with a 1" tweeter. If you pay a high enough price you can find a 1" dome tweeter that operates at low frequencies (in the 1 to 2 kHz range) without high distortion. But you will not find an 8" woofer that can operate as high as those frequencies without beaming.

By beaming, I mean it may produce good sound directly in front of the driver, on axis, but off-axis (off to the side) at angles of roughly 30° or more, it's sound will drop off significantly. At the crossover frequency, where the woofer & tweeter are both equally loud, the tweeter will spread sound widely while the woofer will confine it to a narrow range. A speaker that disperses sound widely across most of the audio range, especially the mid range, creates the illusion of sound coming from outside the speaker cabinet. In stereo this contributes to a realistic sounding image with a wide and detailed sound stage. If the woofer and tweeter distribute sound unevenly, this image tends to get lost.

People often respond to this by saying 'I only listen while sitting directly in front of my speakers and not off to the side'. They're missing the point. A large part of a speaker's wide stereo image is caused by their off-axis sound reflecting from walls. Speakers that beam sound cannot do this as well as speakers that disperse it widely. So, even if you only sit directly in front of your speakers, or in the middle between them, you could miss out on a significant part of the illusion of a wide stereo image if you use 8" woofers in a 2-way design.

You mentioned the 2-way speakers you now have. Are you going from the Fountek 6.5" woofers to an 8" woofer mainly to get better bass response? Or do you have a different reason?
The 4 speakers I have now are pictured in my avatar . My sub is set at LFE and cross over dialed at 50hz My goal is to set my mains at large setting and to Bi- amp the new ones to get full range and remove my sub completely. Thanks for your reply . Yes I want to gain bass and have 2 channels and get rid of sub.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
To go with my earlier comments about those two Scan Speak woofers…

The Scan Speak D2905 Tweeter is a very good 1" dome tweeter. At $131 it isn't cheap, but it's far from expensive. It's Resonance Frequency (Fs) is 550 Hz. A good general rule of thumb for tweeters is to cross them no lower than double the Fs for a 4th order crossover and no lower than triple the Fs for a 2nd order crossover. This avoids a tweeter's low frequency distortion. So this tweeter could be crossed over as low as 1100 Hz in a 2-way speaker with 4th order crossover slopes. With either of those Scan Speak 8" woofers, it wouldn't work well because they should be crossed over lower than 1100 Hz.

Here is the tweeter's Frequency Response. It's important to remember that this frequency response is measured when the tweeter is mounted on a very wide baffle. In a speaker cabinet that may be about 10" wide, any tweeter will have a significantly different looking response curve. There will be a large valley and peak at the lower frequencies caused by diffraction from the cabinet's edges. So before using any tweeter, you must have the right sized test cabinet and measure the tweeter while mounted in it.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
The 4 speakers now I have are pictured in my avatar . My sub is set at LFE and cross over dialed at 50hz My goal is to set my mains at large setting and to Bi- amp the new ones to get full range and remove my sub completely. Thanks for your reply . Yes I want to gain bass and have 2 channels and get rid of sub.
I suggest you stick to a smaller woofer (6½"?) and use a subwoofer below 50 Hz.

Bi-amping is often debated, and is very controversial. At it's best, I don't think it's worth the effort. If amp power is not enough, getting a bigger amp solves the problem with or without bi-amping.
 
DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
I suggest you stick to a smaller woofer (6½"?) and use a subwoofer below 50 Hz.

Bi-amping is often debated, and is very controversial. At it's best, I don't think it's worth the effort. If amp power is not enough, getting a bigger amp solves the problem with or without bi-amping.
Mabye I should just stick with what I Have .... I love the sound from the 6.5" Founteks and the 3"ribbons and my sub is set at 50hz and it sounds great. And the 4 channels sound great. I was just thinking of the old 2 way 8" Advents and Ohms of yesterday . And as always looking for something better. Plus I want to make a new kit. Thanks for the science to back up the charts and now the color graphs makes sense .
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
FYI Madisound's engineer is very ill and I don't think they have found a replacement yet.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Mabye I should just stick with what I Have .... I love the sound from the 6.5" Founteks and the 3"ribbons and my sub is set at 50hz and it sounds great. And the 4 channels sound great. I was just thinking of the old 2 way 8" Advents and Ohms of yesterday . And as always looking for something better. Plus I want to make a new kit. Thanks for the science to back up the charts and now the color graphs makes sense .
Don't give up just yet. I hate to pour cold water on someone's enthusiasm for building speakers.

I know what it feels like, you want to build something new but you really don't need new speakers. (I'm glad you do like your present speakers.) Think about one of those kits that BSA mentioned. See what you can learn about them. There may be some other 7½ or 8" woofer that works better in a 2-way. Have a look on Madisound for SB Acoustics. Maybe you can find a friend who wants new speakers but isn't into building stuff.

By today's standards those old Advents don't sound as wonderful as we all thought they did back in the day. At least, that's how I felt when I heard some older favorites from the 1970s – they sounded bass heavy and lacked mid-range.
 
DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
I won't suggest you to worry too much about bi-amping in general. Now if you want to build active speakers, that's whole another matter.
This Jeff Bagby's Kit : https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-audio-speaker-kits/home-audio-type/home-audio-2-way/helix-dome-mt-kit.html
Hits -3db at 40hz, so you'd be fine without a sub
The 2-way helix ribbon kit looks good to me . I like the sound of ribbons and the range #'s look good. Wonder what a horn would do to the ribbons . Thanks again for all the input. at the very least i have gained more knowledge about this rabbit hole . People sit in my music room and listen and are amazed after one song. and i say that I have only done a few things right. I can post some pics of home made bass traps and sound diffuser. and home made audio rack. . Thanks again. The Tv in Pic is just a monitor for my Pc all WAV files . Just got back into records again U-Turn turntable
 
DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
The 2-way helix ribbon kit looks good to me . I like the sound of ribbons and the range #'s look good. Wonder what a horn would do to the ribbons . Thanks again for all the input. at the very least i have gained more knowledge about this rabbit hole . People sit in my music room and listen and are amazed after one song. and i say that I have only done a few things right. I can post some pics of home made bass traps and sound diffuser. and home made audio rack. . Thanks again. The Tv in Pic is just a monitor for my Pc all WAV files . Just got back into records again U-Turn turntable
The ones that are amazed when they listen are the ones who like Mp3's and ear buds and blue tooth speakers. I would love to have some one who has a good set of ears sit and tell me what I have done wrong. I know enough to get me in trouble. The fun part is getting out of trouble
 
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