Going to an AVR Preamp. Diehard 2chan guy

[ematthews]

So last night my Parasound P5 preamp has given me another issue. The sub control on the back only works in the OFF position. Or full range. No cutting the HZ to it. Strange as it's always worked until last night and I keep both positions for the main and sub on to trim them both.

So on to my question from a sub topic in another thread. Before Purchasing the Marantz AVR Pre amp, will this really give me AS GOOD of playback sound as if I were to buy a dedicated Marantz Integrated Reference amp? The PM-14S1 to be specific vs the AV7703 running with my ATI 2002 amp?

 

[j_garcia]

If you are using the Maranz as the source in analog, yes, the 7703 should still sound just fine.

 

[ematthews]

Correct. SA8005 feeding it with RCA cables. I just like to have bass control options and be able to set my mains to small. If needed it’s there and that’s nice.

 

[PENG]

Correct. SA8005 feeding it with RCA cables. I just like to have bass control options and be able to set my mains to small. If needed it’s there and that’s nice.

Honestly, I have spent hours and hours over the years auditioning high end stuff, I have ready to sell at least one of the my preamp and power amp. My old Denon AVR sounds every bit as good driving my not too Shabby speakers and headphones.

The SR6012 will sound just as good as the 7703 and save you some dollars. The SR8012 has better specs than any of its AV prepro cousins, except the AV8802a and the AV8805.

If you are still skeptical about AVRs, there is another option just now.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-cIpUQmA9DYY/p_642AV8802A/Marantz-AV8802A.html

At $2,499.99 this thing is unbeatable. With or without running Audyssey, it should sound better than the PM14S1 if you have the golden ears. If not, they will sound the same but with Audyssey, if set up properly, will beat the integrated in bass response. I know it sounds silly to use such a capable mch prepro for 2 channel, but again, it is unbeatable now with the deep discount.

 

[TLS Guy]

If you want a good pre/pro, I have a Marantz 8003 pre/pro I have just taken out of service. It is sitting in our best spare bedroom and my wife want it gone.

The unit is 8 years old and has had a lot of use. It is in perfect condition and there is not a mark on it. Although it has had a lot of use, this house has whole house surge protection and the unit has always been powered from an APC UPS unit. In addition this residence has a 15 KW generator and the house is disconnected from the grid in severe thunder and ice storms when the grid is unstable. So it has never received any abuse.

The fidelity of this unit is superb.

I have the remote and set up microphone. The rack mounting brackets which were a purchased accessory have been transferred to the AV 7701 which has replaced it.

If you want more pictures I can take them and post.

You can download the user manual on this page.

Here is my review of it.

After reviewing completed sales on eBay, I would like $425.00 for the unit and you pay shipping.

That is about 1/6 of the cost of the unit new.

So if you want it I can ship it promptly on receipt of payment.

The sound of this unit is excellent and I think you will prefer it to your Parasound unit.

 

[ematthews]

This is all very interesting. I’ll keep it all on the table right now.

 

[ematthews]

Honestly, I have spent hours and hours over the years auditioning high end stuff, I have ready to sell at least one of the my preamp and power amp. My old Denon AVR sounds every bit as good driving my not too Shabby speakers and headphones.

The SR6012 will sound just as good as the 7703 and save you some dollars. The SR8012 has better specs than any of its AV prepro cousins, except the AV8802a and the AV8805.

If you are still skeptical about AVRs, there is another option just now.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-cIpUQmA9DYY/p_642AV8802A/Marantz-AV8802A.html

At $2,499.99 this thing is unbeatable. With or without running Audyssey, it should sound better than the PM14S1 if you have the golden ears. If not, they will sound the same but with Audyssey, if set up properly, will beat the integrated in bass response. I know it sounds silly to use such a capable mch prepro for 2 channel, but again, it is unbeatable now with the deep discount.

So maybe going with a full Integrated AVR would give me the same results? Just asking to see if I could get the same performance out of one on their all in one vs a AVR Pre.

 

[lovinthehd]

A full featured avr (an avr has a pre-amp section, so there's really no such thing as an "avr pre") can act as pre-pro quite well plus give you some amp channels if you need. Some think the presence of the amps will pollute the sound, tho.

 

[PENG]

So maybe going with a full Integrated AVR would give me the same results? Just asking to see if I could get the same performance out of one on their all in one vs a AVR Pre.

What do you mean by a full integrated AVR? If you mean an AVR such as the Marantz SR6012 or Denon AVR-X4400H and up then yes I am sure the LS50 can sound their best in a smaller room even without a sub. That is, no difference if you were to drive them with the PM14S1. I am not familiar with the Ascend and the RBH, but if in a small room the same should apply. In a medium to large room, they are all going to benefit from more powerful amps such as the ATI. The PM14S1 is just an integrated amp, and one that is not really that powerful, only 220 W into 4 ohms right?

 

[TechHDS]

If you want a good pre/pro, I have a Marantz 8003 pre/pro I have just taken out of service. It is sitting in our best spare bedroom and my wife want it gone.

The unit is 8 years old and has had a lot of use. It is in perfect condition and there is not a mark on it. Although it has had a lot of use, this house has whole house surge protection and the unit has always been powered from an APC UPS unit. In addition this residence has a 15 KW generator and the house is disconnected from the grid in severe thunder and ice storms when the grid is unstable. So it has never received any abuse.

The fidelity of this unit is superb.

I have the remote and set up microphone. The rack mounting brackets which were a purchased accessory have been transferred to the AV 7701 which has replaced it.

If you want more pictures I can take them and post.

You can download the user manual on this page.

Here is my review of it.

After reviewing completed sales on eBay, I would like $425.00 for the unit and you pay shipping.

That is about 1/6 of the cost of the unit new.

So if you want it I can ship it promptly on receipt of payment.

The sound of this unit is excellent and I think you will prefer it to your Parasound unit.

@TLSGuy, Some very sweet reel to reels you have there.. The photo in the set-up is all that yours? On the left side above the RR, what is that? Vintage 2 channel amp? pre-amp?. one last question, Don't have any home brew, I do have a 12 pack of Millers, I'll be over next week with my 2 reels of music 'mix' of artist from the mid 70 to early 80s give them a spin. I promise I'll keep my hands off your reel-to-reels.

 

[mtrot]

What about keeping the Halo P5 and using its home theater bypass to connect an AVR for home theater? Then, you could still use the P5 for two-channel sources.

 

[Ace Deprave]

I've had the same issues with the scratchy volume on my P5 as you have, and have had it repaired and/or replaced 3 separate times. Each time it was out of my system, I used my Marantz SR7008 for 2 channel listening...and each time, I was never completely satisfied with its sound. The last time this happened, I decided I was done with the P5, and would just get used to the sound of the Marantz...but I decided to give it one last go, and when I reintroduced the P5 into my system, I was glad I did. I'm not sure what it is about the sound that sounds more natural, but I fiddled with the Marantz's settings extensively (Audyssey, no Audyssey, L&R bypass, etc), and could not get it to sound as good (to me) as the P5.

I used each as a preamp, with an AVA Synergy 450 driving Salk Veracity ST mains, and dual Rythmik F12 subs.

 

[ematthews]

I've had the same issues with the scratchy volume on my P5 as you have, and have had it repaired and/or replaced 3 separate times. Each time it was out of my system, I used my Marantz SR7008 for 2 channel listening...and each time, I was never completely satisfied with its sound. The last time this happened, I decided I was done with the P5, and would just get used to the sound of the Marantz...but I decided to give it one last go, and when I reintroduced the P5 into my system, I was glad I did. I'm not sure what it is about the sound that sounds more natural, but I fiddled with the Marantz's settings extensively (Audyssey, no Audyssey, L&R bypass, etc), and could not get it to sound as good (to me) as the P5.

I used each as a preamp, with an AVA Synergy 450 driving Salk Veracity ST mains, and dual Rythmik F12 subs.

Well that's not good. And another issue reared it's head with the P5 two nights ago. The sub controls on the back only work in the off position. Funny thing is I just put it up for sale and have to take it down. I have no idea why this all of a sudden happened. I sent Parasound a message and they sent me an RA # for service. Ugh.. Again without the preamp. Such a great company but this model just doesn't cut it.

 

[Ace Deprave]

Well that's not good. And another issue reared it's head with the P5 two nights ago. The sub controls on the back only work in the off position. Funny thing is I just put it up for sale and have to take it down. I have no idea why this all of a sudden happened. I sent Parasound a message and they sent me an RA # for service. Ugh.. Again without the preamp. Such a great company but this model just doesn't cut it.

I haven't had problems this time around, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I still have about 1.5 years left under warranty, so we shall see.

 

[TLS Guy]

@TLSGuy, Some very sweet reel to reels you have there.. The photo in the set-up is all that yours? On the left side above the RR, what is that? Vintage 2 channel amp? pre-amp?. one last question, Don't have any home brew, I do have a 12 pack of Millers, I'll be over next week with my 2 reels of music 'mix' of artist from the mid 70 to early 80s give them a spin. I promise I'll keep my hands off your reel-to-reels.

Yes, its all mine.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. However if it is the silver unit above the Revox A77, then that is an Advent Dolby B encode/decoder for reel to reel. If it is the unit above the Revox A 700 then that is a DAT recorder, with a dbx 1 encoder/decoder above that.

The RRs are Revox A 700, Brenell Mk 6, Revox A 77 Mk1, Revox a 77 Mk 6 and Revox A77 Mk II. That goes from right to left.

There is a vintage preamp under each turntable. Far left Quad 22 tube. Center Quad 44, and right Quad 34.

The power amps are Quad 909s, seven of them.

Its a long way from LA to MN!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Are there any dealers around you that have the Marantz pre-pros that you could try ?

I am with PENG and some others here in terms of SQ of AVR v Pre-pro v Int-Amp.

But we're Audio-veterans who have been through plenty of Audio "wars" through the years. And you're never the same after going through multiple “tours”.

Thus, we have lost the golden ears that we once had. There was a time when we could hear the difference among speaker cables and interconnects too.

 

[ematthews]

There are two dealers that have some Hifi inventory. Unfortunately both stores aren’t very pleasant to be in and seem to either have very pricey stuff or some entry level items. Both are installer store fronts so a lotof custom work is done from them in the HT area.

 

[TechHDS]

Yes, its all mine.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. However if it is the silver unit above the Revox A77, then that is an Advent Dolby B encode/decoder for reel to reel. If it is the unit above the Revox A 700 then that is a DAT recorder, with a dbx 1 encoder/decoder above that.

The RRs are Revox A 700, Brenell Mk 6, Revox A 77 Mk1, Revox a 77 Mk 6 and Revox A77 Mk II. That goes from right to left.

There is a vintage preamp under each turntable. Far left Quad 22 tube. Center Quad 44, and right Quad 34.

The power amps are Quad 909s, seven of them.

Its a long way from LA to MN!

I don't know where to start with my questions, on your system. It's probably one of the best set-ups I have seen and I have looked at a ton of very high-end systems. But with that said, Your mix of analog gear, alone with solid state gear in my book is the best I have had the pleasure of viewing. I am going to 'mark' this Thread so I can do some research on your gear so I won't lose sight of this post in particular. I am going to research All of your gear. I am very intrigued of how your system is set-up. The one piece that has intrigued my most interest, is Advent Dolby B encoder/ decoder for your reel to reel, that's where I'll start first. What you have in your system will keep me busy for quite some time. On a side note, don't know if your a NFL fan, but the Vikings had one hell of a nice run this past season. Vikings sure took the breath away from All of, Who Dat Nation Fans.. I have to give proper props to The Great State of Minnesota, NFL Vikings for the division win over my Saints. So here goes, Minnesota Vikings Nation fans Rule!.. I'm a fan of the game first. Grew up watching , Fran Tarkington and the 'purple people eaters' .
PS, sitting in your chair, to your left side above that reel to reel is that the Advent? Now on to the right side, sitting in your chair, above that reel to reel, to me looks like a processor.. asking so I can start with the Advent first. okay scratch the PS, had to go back and reread your post so I wouldn't take out of context..got it! On the left is the Advent.

 

[TLS Guy]

Are there any dealers around you that have the Marantz pre-pros that you could try ?

I am with PENG and some others here in terms of SQ of AVR v Pre-pro v Int-Amp.

But we're Audio-veterans who have been through plenty of Audio "wars" through the years. And you're never the same after going through multiple “tours”.

Thus, we have lost the golden ears that we once had. There was a time when we could hear the difference among speaker cables and interconnects too.

I like to keep preamps away from Power amps. In addition the separates give you balanced and unbalanced outs. If funds permit I do think there are a lot of solid reasons for going with separates.

I have been very pleased with the sound quality of my Marantz pre/pros.

I have never had he chance to test the preamps, but I doubt the preamp section of a receiver is as robust as a pre/pro and I doubt the headroom is as great.
I know the headroom of my AV 8003 is massive. Headroom is an important parameter, and hardly ever tested with bench testing reports and it absolutely should be. It has a huge impact on the quality of high dynamic material especially from a wide variety of input sources. Over the years I have tested consumer grade gear with pitiful headroom. I learned years ago from Peter Walker the importance of overkill headroom in voltage gain circuits. That was just another thing he was right about.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't know where to start with my questions, on your system. It's probably one of the best set-ups I have seen and I have looked at a ton of very high-end systems. But with that said, Your mix of analog gear, alone with solid state gear in my book is the best I have had the pleasure of viewing. I am going to 'mark' this Thread so I can do some research on your gear so I won't lose sight of this post in particular. I am going to research All of your gear. I am very intrigued of how your system is set-up. The one piece that has intrigued my most interest, is Advent Dolby B encoder/ decoder for your reel to reel, that's where I'll start first. What you have in your system will keep me busy for quite some time. On a side note, don't know if your a NFL fan, but the Vikings had one hell of a nice run this past season. Vikings sure took the breath away from All of, Who Dat Nation Fans.. I have to give proper props to The Great State of Minnesota, NFL Vikings for the division win over my Saints. So here goes, Minnesota Vikings Nation fans Rule!.. I'm a fan of the game first. Grew up watching , Fran Tarkington and the 'purple people eaters' .
PS, sitting in your chair, to your left side above that reel to reel is that the Advent? Now on to the right side, sitting in your chair, above that reel to reel, to me looks like a processor.. asking so I can start with the Advent first. okay scratch the PS, had to go back and reread your post so I wouldn't take out of context..got it! On the left is the Advent.

Thank you for that write up. Not really a fan of sports of any type.

I think your post will spur me to update and reorganize my pictures.

I should also do more YouTube uploads.

Here is an up load of a live recording made with the Revox A 700, Brenell Mk6 and dbx 1 unit.

I have commercial reel to reel Dolby B and dbx 2 encoded tapes. I also have some dbx 2 encoded LPs.

Here is a link to the turntable collection.

I think that is one of the most complete historic Decca collections in the world.