Elac Debut 2.0 In Stock @ Best Buy Magnolia

[NYSoundGuy]

I don't think you understand how horns work. Size has nothing to do with brightness. A bigger horn has a lower cutoff frequency (and therefore can be crossed over lower) and better pattern control at lower frequencies. My klipsch rb-10s have tiny horns in comparison to my rp-160m but sound much brighter in comparison.

The 150ms don't really sound all that different from the 160m. The major difference between them is the 160m has better measured pattern control at lower frequencies due to the larger woofer and bigger horn, neither speaker sounds fatiguing or bright to my young ears, on the contrary, in my opinion they are some of the best sounding speakers I've heard at any price point.

Your experience with the 280s sounding harsh is likely due to a highly reflective room. I know I personally can't stand to listen in a highly reverberant environment for long periods without listening fatigue, and it makes moderately loud volumes sound grating. I've also found well treated rooms make higher volumes more tolerable, since short dynamic bursts (such as in movies) tend to decay much more rapidly, whereas a very live room tends to make then ring on longer, making the overall constant level feel louder and therefore more irritating.

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You're correct I do not understand how horns work. I just know I love the 150M's Another thing that could explain the difference is the fact that part # stamped on the back of the tweeter is different between the 160M and 150M.

 

[NYSoundGuy]

I moved the RP280's down where I have the RP150M's and the RP280's are definitely brighter - not too much - but nonetheless brighter. Still not as bright as the F6.2's (which just has me shocked) Also, I don't give too much weight to speaker break in. Every speaker I've liked I've liked right out the box. Every speaker I didn't like I didn't like right out of the box.

 

[yepimonfire]

One thing I don't understand is how a lively room would make horn-loaded speaker specifically seem bright. A horn doesn't have that much to do with the overall spectral balance of a speaker. Horn loaded speakers can be warm as well as bright. An acoustically lively room will have a greater ratio of reflected/direct sound heard at the listening position in which case the design of the speaker doesn't matter so much as sound power curve. In fact, the nice thing about horn-loaded speakers are the toe-in can make a much bigger different than a speaker without a wave-guide, and so the horn-loaded speaker is easier to 'soften up' through simply adjusting the toe-in.

Not necessarily bright, just more fatiguing. That goes for any speaker IMO.

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[yepimonfire]

You're correct I do not understand how horns work. I just know I love the 150M's Another thing that could explain the difference is the fact that part # stamped on the back of the tweeter is different between the 160M and 150M.

All I know is I own both and the timbre differences are pretty small, and neither sound bright in comparison, which leaves either placement or room reverb as a suspect in the huge difference you're hearing.

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[yepimonfire]

I moved the RP280's down where I have the RP150M's and the RP280's are definitely brighter - not too much - but nonetheless brighter. Still not as bright as the F6.2's (which just has me shocked) Also, I don't give too much weight to speaker break in. Every speaker I've liked I've liked right out the box. Every speaker I didn't like I didn't like right out of the box.

Still fatiguing?

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[NYSoundGuy]

Not as fatiguing as I perceived them at first. They are bright compared to the BS22’s,FS52’s and B6’s but less bright than the Kilpsch RP Series IMHO.

They are very detailed and nuanced. A touch bass shy but the bass they have is very honest, tight and detailed...for example listening to Bill Evans Trio Portriat in Jazz the string bass is extremely detailed and it plays each note with distinctive pitch differences and you can hear each pluck on the strings. I’m becoming happier with these. Keep in mind I’m using a Sony BDP S370 to play CD’s/SACD’s via optical out to my Yamaha RX V795. My Oppo/Marantz PM6005 set up is in a different room so I’m not using my best source/amplification (I will say the BDP S370/RX V795 combo is not a total slouch)

My opinion of the F6.2’s is becoming more favorable.

 

[zieglj01]

My opinion of the F6.2’s is becoming more favorable.

Continue to enjoy the audio adventure

 

[Ryan00]

Not as fatiguing as I perceived them at first. They are bright compared to the BS22’s,FS52’s and B6’s but less bright than the Kilpsch RP Series IMHO.

They are very detailed and nuanced. A touch bass shy but the bass they have is very honest, tight and detailed...for example listening to Bill Evans Trio Portriat in Jazz the string bass is extremely detailed and it plays each note with distinctive pitch differences and you can hear each pluck on the strings. I’m becoming happier with these. Keep in mind I’m using a Sony BDP S370 to play CD’s/SACD’s via optical out to my Yamaha RX V795. My Oppo/Marantz PM6005 set up is in a different room so I’m not using my best source/amplification (I will say the BDP S370/RX V795 combo is not a total slouch)

My opinion of the F6.2’s is becoming more favorable.

Have you ever heard the old b6 or the f6 ? From what the reviews are saying is the f6 had more bass and less top end. It was warm and neutral sound. To where the f6.2 has less bass and is a little more bright but not to bright. I don’t no I haven’t heard either ,but I went ahead and just got the f6 because a lot of great reviews already about them and I wanted a warm speaker I could play all genres on. Also I think the f6 look better that’s only my opinion.

 

[NYSoundGuy]

I own the B6.... my dad is borrowing them. I never heard the F6. The B6 were warmer and had a lot of bass.

One thing is for sure the F6.2 like power. The Marantz PM6005 is not enough power for them. 50% volume with the Refernce Premiere will hurt your hearing but they stay composed with the PM6005. 50% volume on the PM6005 with the F6.2 isn’t very loud and is very thin and turning it up louder doesn’t help since the Marantz must not have the power needed.

 

[KEW]

Sounds like your RX-V795 is the better amp to use, but still not a solid option. It is disappointing to see a relatively low cost speaker which requires high cost amplification. Elac's spec says 30-150 Watts for "Recommended Amplifier Power", and 87dB efficiency with 6 Ohms impedance, so I would generally expect the 45WPC Marantz to do well enough!
Of course not many companies have accurate specifications - seems that the marketing dept. rules rules decisions of what numbers to present!
I suspect that Elac will get a higher return rate because people won't run them with enough amp.

 

[KEW]

If the Elac is looking good, you might take a quick look at your local CraigsList. I have found 120WPC AVR in fine condition for under $100. It did not have HDMI which was probably the biggest factor driving the price down!

 

[NYSoundGuy]

I’m going to dig out my Hafler 110 / Adcom 545 combo out later tonight after dinner. The 545 is a true 100wpc. I haven’t used it in years since the Marantz has always been able to drive anything and it’s more convenient since it has a built in DAC and remote control. Plus the Marantz sounds great, not that the Hafler/Adcom doesn’t but the form factor of the Marantz is superior and it sounds great to boot.

 

[KEW]

I’m going to dig out my Hafler 110 / Adcom 545 combo out later tonight after dinner. The 545 is a true 100wpc. I haven’t used it in years since the Marantz has always been able to drive anything and it’s more convenient since it has a built in DAC and remote control. Plus the Marantz sounds great, not that the Hafler/Adcom doesn’t but the form factor of the Marantz is superior and it sounds great to boot.

Nice that you have something on hand to use to give the Elac an honest appraisal for sound quality. Like I said, a lot of people will probably hook them up to an amp at around 50 watts per Channel and find they are thin sounding like you did, except they won't realize they are being under-powered!

 

[NYSoundGuy]

OK I dug out and got the hafler/adcom hooked up and covered most of the hardwood floor in my great room with blankets and pillows (my kids got a kick out of it! wife thinks I'm crazy).

With that preamp/amp combo I got much improved sound in that big room. Certainly the floor coverings have a lot to do with "taming" the tweeters. Also, the added power brought up the other drivers to help fill and balance the sound. I will again point out, while the F6.2's aren't bass shy, they are not bass monsters either. I could see a lot of people thinking they lack bass. The detail and separation between instruments is very good. Center image is excellent and sound stage is very good too. The sound stage on the F6.2 is very 3D, one of the best I've heard.

All in all, I think they are pretty good speakers. Nothing that rocked my world and I am going to return them simply because I think the RP280F's have better dynamics and detail and work with my PM6005 which is much easier for my wife since she can stream music easily with our Chromecast audio. I do not have a separate DAC to use with the Hafler and do not want to invest in one for the Elac's.

I think with the right room and amplification the Elac F6.2 would make most people happy. I just think for a budget loudspeaker they might be a little fussy. It will be interesting to see what the consensus is as more feedback comes in.

 

[KEW]

What did you think of the 280's with the "Faux carpet"?
I would think that would do a lot to improve your sound in that room with the Klipsch!

 

[NYSoundGuy]

What did you think of the 280's with the "Faux carpet"?
I would think that would do a lot to improve your sound in that room with the Klipsch!

Yes it did a lot to improve the 280's! If I keep them pointed straight ahead and the treble knob down a little on the PM6005 I prefer them to the Elac.

My pro's and con's are based on 2.0 music only. I do not watch movies.

RP280 Pros:
Great bass
Great detail
Even bad recordings sound good (i.e. The Doors, Led Zeppelin)
Efficient
Disappear into room - can't tell where sound is coming from
Great center image
Can fill a large listening area with ease
Good looking

RP280 Cons:
Need volume to be turned up a little to get the great bass out of them
Can't be toed into listen position
Soundstage not as 3D (deep) as Elac F6.2
Fatiguing in my lively room (tolerable when I cover hard floor)

Elac F6.2 Pros:
Detail detail detail
Pitch differentiation (can really hear different notes, especially on lower notes)
Very 3D soundstage
Great center image

Elac F6.2 Cons:
Not for bassheads
Not great at filling a large room (even with power)
Power hungry
Can be bright/thin sounding (amplification helps)
Revealing of bad recordings
Kind of ugly/cheap looking