Impressions on Crown XLi vs XLS for Hi-Fi mains

[kanebane]

Hi,

Crown XLS has gathered quite a reputation for Hi-Fi/ HT mains amplification despite not being its targeted market segment. Some people dis them while many highly recommend them.

I have decided that I will use Crown XLS or XLi amps (2000/2500 models) to power up my hi-fi mains.
The XLS has an unnecessary AD-DA conversion ( because I won't be using any DSP) which bothers me.
The XLi is very high power for class AB, maybe it is more biased towards class B, which bothers me.

So, I am a bit confused which one to get.

Most of the discussion I have found across forums are regarding XLS vs other amps. Not enough head on impression between XLS vs XLi.

So, this is my request to anyone who have actually used the XLS & the XLi series Crown amps for driving full range stereo mains, kindly share your impressions & preferences.

Thanks in advance.

 

[lovinthehd]

I doubt you'll find many with experience with both amps. I have four XLS1500s and use them for both mains and sub duties. I'd never thought about the dsp I'm not using but I doubt any AD/DA conversion is audible these days in any case (and the dsp is pretty much for crossover duties which I haven't used them for). Are you concerned with fan noise? I'm not sure how the XLi stacks up in that regard, altho I think I've read that people say it's relatively quiet (and I know the XLS is very quiet).

 

[kanebane]

lovinthehd, thanks for your reply.

I do hope someone with experience with both amps would chime in.

Fan noise is not an issue. XLi have its fan always running I think, maybe with variable speed. It is class AB, hence more thermal loss to deal with. From what I have read so far, it isn't audible a few feet away. XLS is apparently quiter, as you have said.

Regardless of whether you are using the crossover or not, DSP is always engaged on the XLS, same as all other series except the XLi. I saw lab tests on the XTi 1000 & XTi 4000 where 10KHz square waves looked like basically sine waves, thanks to the AD-DA conversion. There were some ringing in 1KHz square waves too. Also there is considerable phase rotation on the top octave. Does not mean it will be audible in music playback. But still...

Are you satisfied with the XLS1500s in the high frequencies?

 

[lovinthehd]

Got links for the tests?

No problem with the highs but I'm old Doubt I listen to very much with content at the high end of the spectrum either....noticed no difference from previous Carver amps nor with avr.

 

[kanebane]

https://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=crown_XTI-1000

https://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=crown_XTI-4000

check out the square waves.

 

[lovinthehd]

https://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=crown_XTI-1000

https://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=crown_XTI-4000

check out the square waves.

You sure that amp tested in 2010 is the same tech as the XLS series? Source? Lots of similiarities it seems, amp spec for the XTi1000 similar to the XLS1500 but not quite the same, much more involved dsp section, no mention of Drive Core....

 

[TLS Guy]

https://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=crown_XTI-1000

https://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=crown_XTI-4000

check out the square waves.

I would never use an amp that tested like that except for sub duty and for live PA. I would not give it house room in this theater.

 

[kanebane]

You sure that amp tested in 2010 is the same tech as the XLS series? Source? Lots of similiarities it seems, amp spec for the XTi1000 similar to the XLS1500 but not quite the same, much more involved dsp section, no mention of Drive Core....

No. Those tests are just for reference. These XTi are tested in 2010. The original XTi are from 2006 and is Class AB+B. They renewed into XTi 2 in around 2011-12. I doubt the amplifier section has changed much but most likely the front DSP has changed/ improved.

The XLS was launched in 2010 and uses drive core class D tech. Most likely it would test better than the original XTi.

Crown XLS is often compared to Icepower in terms of SQ.

XTi has mixed reviews and XLi hasn't got much reviews at all.

& Then we have a new XLC series which is most likely an XLS without DSP.
( so is there no AD/DA conversion?????)

 

[KEW]

I would never use an amp that tested like that except for sub duty and for live PA. I would not give it house room in this theater.

Can you elaborate?
Which measurements do you find unacceptable?
Thanks!

 

[Art Vandelay]

I would never use an amp that tested like that except for sub duty and for live PA. I would not give it house room in this theater.

I thought the measurements looked pretty good - for class D, although the square wave tilt does indicate premature LF filtering.

Granted THD is a bit on the high side but it's not too much different from some more expensive audiophile brands.

Pity they didn't capture scope shots driving non-resistive loads though.

 

[lovinthehd]

No. Those tests are just for reference. These XTi are tested in 2010. The original XTi are from 2006 and is Class AB+B. They renewed into XTi 2 in around 2011-12. I doubt the amplifier section has changed much but most likely the front DSP has changed/ improved.

The XLS was launched in 2010 and uses drive core class D tech. Most likely it would test better than the original XTi.

Crown XLS is often compared to Icepower in terms of SQ.

XTi has mixed reviews and XLi hasn't got much reviews at all.

& Then we have a new XLC series which is most likely an XLS without DSP.
( so is there no AD/DA conversion?????)

Hmmm hadn't heard about XLC. While I have seen little bench test info most of it has been pretty good. You don't think the Drive Core development was significant for Crown?

 

[kanebane]

Yes, the DriveCore was a significant development for crown. Being a pro audio company, such low weight amps with so few parts with same or better SQ helps a lot.
Even in amps using Drivecore, the DSP units comes before it, I believe.

Crown uses the word "Audiophile" in description of the XLC which they didn't do with any other series.

 

[PENG]

The specs are there so is no need to speculate, the XLI amps are not good for home hifi applications unless sound quality is not your top priority. If you prefer class AB proamp, I can vouch for the QSC RMX series.

 

[KEW]

The specs are there so is no need to speculate, the XLI amps are not good for home hifi applications unless sound quality is not your top priority. If you prefer class AB proamp, I can vouch for the Canadian made QSC RMX series.

What about the XLS drivecore series?
What is it about the XLI specifications that renders it "not the best option" for home hi-fi?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have used the Crown XLS 2500 amp to power my speakers - B&W 802D2, Philharmonic 3, KEF 201/2, and few others like Dynaudio, Focal, ATC, TAD.

The amp "sounded" like any other amps I've used.

 

[PENG]

What about the XLS drivecore series?
What is it about the XLI specifications that renders it "not the best option" for home hi-fi?

I have no experience with that one, but HD and ADTG never said anything bad about them. As I said, for the XLi's, I don't need to have experience with them because the specs are quite telling:

Frequency Response 20 Hz - 20 kHz, +0/-1 dB (at 1 watt)
THD <0.5%, 20 Hz - 20 kHz
Intermodulation Distortion =/ <0.35% (60 Hz and 7 kHz at 4:1 from full rated ouput to -30 dB)
Slew Rate >10V/us

They may still sound great to some people for some applications, but I think for home hifi enjoyment it is better to stick with the XLS series that offers specs that at least people in the non golden ear group don't have to worry about audible distortions, poor slew rate etc.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have no experience with that one, but HD and ADTG never said anything bad about them. As I said, for the XLi's, I don't need to have experience with them because the specs are quite telling:

Frequency Response 20 Hz - 20 kHz, +0/-1 dB (at 1 watt)
THD <0.5%, 20 Hz - 20 kHz
Intermodulation Distortion =/ <0.35% (60 Hz and 7 kHz at 4:1 from full rated ouput to -30 dB)
Slew Rate >10V/us

They may still sound great to some people for some applications, but I think for home hifi enjoyment it is better to stick with the XLS series that offers specs that at least people in the non golden ear group don't have to worry about audible distortions, poor slew rate etc.

The XLS has the same frequency response spec; THD is the same spec, IM is "(60 Hz and 7 kHz at 4:1) from full rated output to –30 dB: < 0.3%"; don't see a slew rate spec, tho. So how does this show the XLi being inferior?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I have no experience with that one, but HD and ADTG never said anything bad about them. As I said, for the XLi's, I don't need to have experience with them because the specs are quite telling:

Frequency Response 20 Hz - 20 kHz, +0/-1 dB (at 1 watt)
THD <0.5%, 20 Hz - 20 kHz
Intermodulation Distortion =/ <0.35% (60 Hz and 7 kHz at 4:1 from full rated ouput to -30 dB)
Slew Rate >10V/us

They may still sound great to some people for some applications, but I think for home hifi enjoyment it is better to stick with the XLS series that offers specs that at least people in the non golden ear group don't have to worry about audible distortions, poor slew rate etc.

@PENG, Would you care to explain this a bit in detail. Specifically what spec would you expect for a home amp, and let's target more typical AVR amp, not Passlabs spec
I get the 1st one - FR - home amp should be ideally flat 20hz-20khz, not rated up to -1db.
Reading spec for Benchmark Amp, even that one is not absolutely flat 20hz-20khz for both 8 and 4 ohm loads. https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-ahb2-power-amplifier
THD spec seems a bit high but is it really audible?
ID and SR I have no idea what "normal"/avr like number should be like

 

[kanebane]

The only notable difference between the XLS and XLi is the crosstalk ratings ( 85dB vs 75dB @1KHz) if its worth anything.

An amplifier with 0.5% THD at 500W might have 0.1 %THD at 450W and 0.05%THD at 400W. If I want a 400W amp, I will just get a 500W one.

IMD is rather high in both amps, but I think that is rated at full power.

-1dB at 20KHz does not matter for me at all because different speakers has way too much variation in this region.

What I am really interested in knowing is the phase response for both the amps across the bandwidth.

 

[PENG]

The only notable difference between the XLS and XLi is the crosstalk ratings ( 85dB vs 75dB @1KHz) if its worth anything.

An amplifier with 0.5% THD at 500W might have 0.1 %THD at 450W and 0.05%THD at 400W. If I want a 400W amp, I will just get a 500W one.

IMD is rather high in both amps, but I think that is rated at full power.

-1dB at 20KHz does not matter for me at all because different speakers has way too much variation in this region.

What I am really interested in knowing is the phase response for both the amps across the bandwidth.

One is class D and the other is class AB right? So I am not sure if you can compare their specs directly. If yes, then I wouldn't touch the XLS either because of their relatively high THD and IMD.