Kef LS50 versus Bose 901 Series VI

[shadyJ]

It's funny looking back at old threads. Sometimes I find myself disagreeing with my old posts.

If we were to look back 2 years from now in 2020, I may change my mind again.

But as of now, March 2018, I would say that I agree with my old posts here from 2 years ago.

If I'm just talking to strangers on the street who love Bose, then I'll just keep my mouth shut.


But there is no way in hell I would tell my family, relatives, or friends that it's okay to buy any Bose.

When I say that people should listen to the speakers and base their decisions on what they hear, I wasn't talking about speakers that measure almost +/- 10dB on-axis!

I was assuming the speakers in question were no worse than +/-5dB from 200Hz-10kHz.

In bose's defense, that speaker probably has a huge amount of diffraction when measured in a quasi-anechoic setting that might average out quite a bit in room. Interesting design choices for something made in 1969, but just a tad long in tooth versus today's speakers.

 

[KenM10759]

That plot of the Bose 901 is hilarious to me. Giant swings, big holes. Exactly what I've heard...junk.

 

[KEW]

It's funny looking back at old threads. Sometimes I find myself disagreeing with my old posts.

If we were to look back 2 years from now in 2020, I may change my mind again.

But as of now, March 2018, I would say that I agree with my old posts here from 2 years ago.

If I'm just talking to strangers on the street who love Bose, then I'll just keep my mouth shut.


But there is no way in hell I would tell my family, relatives, or friends that it's okay to buy any Bose.

When I say that people should listen to the speakers and base their decisions on what they hear, I wasn't talking about speakers that measure almost +/- 10dB on-axis!

I was assuming the speakers in question were no worse than +/-5dB from 200Hz-10kHz.

You pulled this from the NoAudiophile review, but failed to include his comment accompanying the measurements:

The jagged response is probably due to baffle reflections, and comb filtering from the 9 drivers all doing the same thing.

Given the speaker is designed to be 1 part direct and 8 parts reflected sound, an outdoor on-axis measurement is not a good reflection of what you will hear.
Noaudiophile is up front about saying he is not sure how to interpret his measurements and, regarding his off axis FR curves, states:

The one in the middle is the interesting one. It's an average of all of the off axis measurements, or the total power response of the speakers, and it's flat. We are talking +-2dB from 200Hz up to 12k. Normally a power response would be tilted to show a roll off of the treble, but it's hard to say that it's wrong given the strange dispersion pattern. Maybe this was the intended goal of the speaker, or maybe it's just a coincidence.

You may think I am trying to make a case for the Bose 901. I'm not; I certainly believe the ls50 is a much better speaker, but I am used to listening to those things we audio-geeks listen for.

I am just trying to prevent misinformation from being spread and using that lone on-axis FR to define the 901's is grossly misleading!

I linked the noaudiophile review below so people can see all he had to say in his review.

Personally (and not too far from NoAudiophile's opinion, as I read it), the 901's are not very good. I bought a pair and sold them before I properly installed them in my system because of their obvious short comings. However, there is no denying that they do have a unique and impressive way of providing an amazing sound stage!

I am not the only one to believe this.

Here is a quote from the designer of the RAAL tweeter (taken from the linked review):

That speaker, with it's dedicated EQ box, kicks ass big time in recreating the proper size of the orchestra and all that it contains.

I'll take the ls50's, but if was given a free pair of 901's today, I would keep them and try what Noaudiophile suggests, which is cross them to a sub at 90Hz and to a tweeter at 3kHz. Actually, instead of setting up a dedicated tweeter, I would probably just cross them to my Mirage OMD-5's at 3kHz, that way I would retain some of the omni-directional dispersion characteristic!

http://noaudiophile.com/Bose_901/

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You pulled this from the NoAudiophile review, but failed to include his comment accompanying the measurements:

Given the speaker is designed to be 1 part direct and 8 parts reflected sound, an outdoor on-axis measurement is not a good reflection of what you will hear.
Noaudiophile is up front about saying he is not sure how to interpret his measurements and, regarding his off axis FR curves, states:


You may think I am trying to make a case for the Bose 901. I'm not; I certainly believe the ls50 is a much better speaker, but I am used to listening to those things we audio-geeks listen for.

I am just trying to prevent misinformation from being spread and using that lone on-axis FR to define the 901's is grossly misleading!

I linked the noaudiophile review below so people can see all he had to say in his review.

Personally (and not to far from NoAudiophile's opinion as I read it), the 901's are not very good. I bought a pair and sold them before I properly installed them in my system because of their obvious short comings. However, there is no denying that they do have a unique and impressive way of providing an amazing sound stage!

I am not the only one to believe this.

Here is a quote from the designer of the RAAL tweeter (taken from the linked review):


I'll take the ls50's, but if was given a free pair of 901's today, I would keep them and try what Noaudiophile suggests, which is cross them to a sub at 90Hz and to a tweeter at 3kHz. Actually, instead of setting up a dedicated tweeter, I would probably just cross them to my Mirage OMD-5's at 3kHz, that way I would retain some of the omni-directional dispersion characteristic!

http://noaudiophile.com/Bose_901/

So after all that explanation, the bottom line is still the KEF LS50 is a much better speaker.

And if someone were to buy one with their hard-earned money, they should not buy the Bose because there are much better speakers available for the same amount of money.

I think my Lexus LX570 is a much better SUV than a Jeep Patriot. But hey, if someone wants to give me a free brand new Jeep, I'll take it.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Who needs the 901 when you can diy these ssssweeet boxes?

 

[KEW]

So after all that explanation, the bottom line is still the KEF LS50 is a much better speaker.

And if someone were to buy one with their hard-earned money, they should not buy the Bose because there are much better speakers available for the same amount of money.

I think my Lexus LX570 is a much better SUV than a Jeep Patriot. But hey, if someone wants to give me a free brand new Jeep, I'll take it.

As I said before:
I am just trying to prevent misinformation from being spread and using that lone on-axis FR to define the 901's is grossly misleading!

You know better.

Yes, as I said, I would advise someone to get the ls50, but you are giving false reasons for this decision.
Give good advice, but stick to the truth. You should not need to engage in misinformation!

 

[shkumar4963]

As I said before:
I am just trying to prevent misinformation from being spread and using that lone on-axis FR to define the 901's is grossly misleading!

You know better.

Yes, as I said I would advise someone to get the ls50, but you are giving false reasons for this decision.
Give good advice, but stick to the truth. You should not need to engage in misinformation!

Thanks. Let's keep it honest and educational.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[PENG]

It's funny looking back at old threads. Sometimes I find myself disagreeing with my old posts.

If we were to look back 2 years from now in 2020, I may change my mind again.

But as of now, March 2018, I would say that I agree with my old posts here from 2 years ago.

If I'm just talking to strangers on the street who love Bose, then I'll just keep my mouth shut.


But there is no way in hell I would tell my family, relatives, or friends that it's okay to buy any Bose.

When I say that people should listen to the speakers and base their decisions on what they hear, I wasn't talking about speakers that measure almost +/- 10dB on-axis!

I was assuming the speakers in question were no worse than +/-5dB from 200Hz-10kHz.

Wow, I didn't know it could be that bad. Outdoor 1 meter should be pretty close to anechoic 1 meter, something's wrong about this picture, would you mind sharing the source that may tell us things like who did it, using what software/hardware etc?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wow, I didn't know it could be that bad. Outdoor 1 meter should be pretty close to anechoic 1 meter, something's wrong about this picture, would you mind sharing the source that may tell us things like who did it, using what software/hardware etc?

http://noaudiophile.com/Bose_901/

Okay, so it's most likely not THAT bad if you look at the whole story. Still not going to convince me to buy any Bose or give them any awards.

 

[Ponzio]

I owned the Bose 901's for 20 some years and currently own a pair of KEF LS50's. Not even close, the LS50's in a landslide. Find a local brick & mortar shop and demo the LS50's to verify this for yourself.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I owned the Bose 901's for 20 some years and currently own a pair of KEF LS50's. Not even close, the LS50's in a landslide. Find a local brick & mortar shop and demo the LS50's to verify this for yourself.

Yeah, I think most of us have been suckered at least once in our life into buying Bose.

A lot of my relatives also have the 901 and other Bose speakers, which all sound like crap to me.

I guess that happens after you've listened to Salon2, 802D2, KEF 201/2, Linkwitz Orion, Phil3, RBH, etc., and other good speakers.

 

[PENG]

http://noaudiophile.com/Bose_901/

Okay, so it's most likely not THAT bad if you look at the whole story. Still not going to convince me to buy any Bose or give them any awards.

After I posted I went back up a little and saw the link provided by KEW, but thanks anyway.

 

[shkumar4963]

I owned the Bose 901's for 20 some years and currently own a pair of KEF LS50's. Not even close, the LS50's in a landslide. Find a local brick & mortar shop and demo the LS50's to verify this for yourself.

Unfortunately, Bose does not allow its retailers to demo its speakers against any other speaker. That is why they are set in a separate section of the shop. Also, Bose does not allow its retailers to play any other material on it other than what is provided by Bose and that material cannot be played on any other speaker ( Bose copyright material).

So not easy to compare Bose with any other, except to buy them first and then demo at home.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Ponzio]

Yeah, I think most of us have been suckered at least once in our life into buying Bose.

A lot of my relatives also have the 901 and other Bose speakers, which all sound like crap to me.

I guess that happens after you've listened to Salon2, 802D2, KEF 201/2, Linkwitz Orion, Phil3, RBH, etc., and other good speakers.

in my case the missus won them in a work contest in '85 and for the times they weren't shabby either, i guess. free is free, right? i also had a pair of Polk LS-70's in my office too.


meanwhile life was going on; family & work.

i didn't realize what a quantum jump had occurred meanwhile in speaker technology till 2011 when i had some forced time on my hands and started haunting the brick & mortar shops when i had the energy for the next year & a half literally demoing a ton of speakers.

thanks to guys like u and others on this site I've taken a significant jump in my aural pleasure and knowledge in choosing my ultimate choices now, from the Focal's to the Salk's ... tip of the hat to Swerd ... and the others.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

This OP has got to be a contender for "funniest topic of the year"

 

[Art Vandelay]

901's were something of a novelty in the 70's. I knew few people who actually liked them and even less who saw merit in the concept. Dr Bose might have been a clever man and a competent engineer but his real talent was sales & marketing.