Marantz SR 6012 for $750.00 open box

[Jason55]

I just bought a new Sony OLED TV. I have an 11 year old Pioneer VSX 84TXSi, Magnepan 1.6 QR for front speakers and Magnepan CC 5 center. Room is 24x13, height is 8’

I might get a sub and surrounds at some point but very unlikely to be more than 5.1.

I’m assuming I need a new AVR, and was planning to buy a Denon for 700.00 or so since Denon seems to be the #1 recommendation on this site in this price range.

BB has the Marantz SR 6012 open box for 750.00 which is 50% off

What AVR should I Get? Main use is movies from Netflix, iTunes and music from Spotify

Thanks

 

[PENG]

BB has the Marantz SR 6012 open box for 750.00 which is 50% off

What AVR should I Get? Main use is movies from Netflix, iTunes and music from Spotify

Thanks

$750 for the SR 6012 is a good price if it is just an open box, but there is a good chance that the unit was used and returned within the returnable period. IMO it is better to get a brand new equivalent Denon, the AVR-X3400H that often goes on sale for $799 or less from authorized online dealers. Or $599 for the X3300H if you don't mind last year's model.

Denon seems to be the #1 recommendation on this site in this price range.

That's only because Denon often goes on sale with deep discounts shortly after the newer models are out. In North America (apparently not in the other side of the earth), hearsay from the old days keep perpetuating the belief (not fact) that Marantz has "better" sound quality, a "warmer" sound etc. I think that could be the reason why the discounts on their last year models and used units tend to cost more. So well researched shoppers would be pushed to the Denon camp, except those who really like Marantz distinctly different front view, such as the port hole or they firmly believe Marantz has the so called "warm" sound.

I’m assuming I need a new AVR

Hard to say, it would seem that if you are "assuming" you need a new AVR then you may actually not need one!! If the Pioneer is still serving you well with all the features you need, I would say keep it. It is much more powerful than the SR6012 and is therefore a better match to you Magnepan 1.6 QR that has low sensitivity and impedance (4 ohm rated). If you go with the SR6012 or the AVR-X3400H, you should get an external fan, and go easy on the volume key.

 

[KEW]

In North America (apparently not in the other side of the earth), hearsay from the old days keep perpetuating the belief (not fact) that Marantz has "better" sound quality, a "warmer" sound etc. I think that could be the reason why the discounts on their last year models and used units tend to cost more. So well researched shoppers would be pushed to the Denon camp, except those who really like Marantz distinctly different front view, such as the port hole or they firmly believe Marantz has the so called "warm" sound.

I think D&M's marketing is at play here as well. Marantz made a big deal out of it's HDAM technology as if it were an audio breakthrough.
It makes sense - if you make/sell both Denon and Marantz, you don't want your own models competing against each other.
I'm pretty sure a phono input was more common on Marantz than Denon (though they may be more common on Denon now that they have become a "thing" again). Also seems like marantz is more likely to offer pre-outs - even their slim-line AVR has stereo pre-outs. Both of these present it as more of an audio product despite most likely having the same build otherwise.
It seems that Marantz is "premium audio product" and Denon is "value HT AVR" in D&M's projected sales marketing.
Kind of like Pontiac and Chevrolet used to be.

 

[Jason55]

$750 for the SR 6012 is a good price if it is just an open box, but there is a good chance that the unit was used and returned within the returnable period. IMO it is better to get a brand new equivalent Denon, the AVR-X3400H that often goes on sale for $799 or less from authorized online dealers. Or $599 for the X3300H if you don't mind last year's model.

Thanks, this is the feedback I’m looking for. I’ll clarify the condition of the Marantz ie whether it’s been used or not


Hard to say, it would seem that if you are "assuming" you need a new AVR then you may actually not need one!! If the Pioneer is still serving you well with all the features you need, I would say keep it. It is much more powerful than the SR6012 and is therefore a better match to you Magnepan 1.6 QR that has low sensitivity and impedance (4 ohm rated). If you go with the SR6012 or the AVR-X3400H, you should get an external fan, and go easy on the volume key.

Yes I am assuming I need a new AVR in order to fully benefit from the new tech of my new TV (4K, hdr etc). If I don’t need to replace it that’s great news. Also I didn’t realize the Pionner is much more powerful - bought it 11 years ago and haven’t paid much attention to my AV system for many years!

 

[Jason55]

One more question, which is pretty important for me: is the Denon easier to use than the Marantz, or vice-versa? It’s a moot point if I don’t have to replace the pioneer but I get easily confused by some of this stuff (setup and ongoing use)

Thanks for the feedback

 

[PENG]

Both are easy enough to use, no difference.

 

[Jason55]

Both are easy enough to use, no difference.

Thanks PENG, do I need a new AVR to take advantage of 4k HDR etc on my new TV? My old TV is 11 years old!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would rather take a brand new Denon X3300 right now on Amazon for $599.

Or see if you can find a Denon X4300 brand new for $799 (usual price when on sale).

 

[lovinthehd]

If you want to enjoy 4k or immersive tech with the avr (utilizing the newer HDMI/HDCP requirements) then replacing the Pioneer would be in order. The Pioneer may be slightly more powerful than the Denon/Marantz units being considered from what I see, but not significantly so IMO (a handfiul of watts which won't likely make much difference to volume level) but maybe @PENG can share some more info on the amp sections' comparison. I'd agree the Denon 3300 would be a good way to go for less $ (and it still has the necessary 4k/immersive tech as the others).

 

[PENG]

If you want to enjoy 4k or immersive tech with the avr (utilizing the newer HDMI/HDCP requirements) then replacing the Pioneer would be in order. The Pioneer may be slightly more powerful than the Denon/Marantz units being considered from what I see, but not significantly so IMO (a handfiul of watts which won't likely make much difference to volume level) but maybe @PENG can share some more info on the amp sections' comparison. I'd agree the Denon 3300 would be a good way to go for less $ (and it still has the necessary 4k/immersive tech as the others).

My comments on the power output was based on the S&V measurements.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-elite-vsx-84txsi-audio-video-receiver-measurements

"The clipping point, with all seven channels driven into 4 ohms, was reached at 178W at 1kHz. A fuse blew at the end of the 1 kHz test.

With two channels driving 8 ohms, clipping was reached at 191W at 1kHz.

With two channels driving 4 ohms, clipping was reached at 332W at 1kHz."


That kind of performance is roughly in par with the Denon flag ship models and beat a lot of integrated amps or even power amps. It did blow a fuse in the ACD 4 ohm test but why they would even bother (and they typically don't) putting that avr through such a torture test is beyond me.

Regarding 4k contents, he can simply connect his source players, cable box etc., directly to the TV via HDMI and use the second HDMI port (some players have 2) to feed audio to the Pioneer. Some media players don't have 2 HDMI ports but I understand 4K capable splitters are now available. In fact I plan on getting one for my PS4 pro.

 

[Jason55]

I would rather take a brand new Denon X3300 right now on Amazon for $599.

Or see if you can find a Denon X4300 brand new for $799 (usual price when on sale).

Thanks, looks like the Denon X3300 is more than enough for my needs

 

[Jason55]

If you want to enjoy 4k or immersive tech with the avr (utilizing the newer HDMI/HDCP requirements) then replacing the Pioneer would be in order. The Pioneer may be slightly more powerful than the Denon/Marantz units being considered from what I see, but not significantly so IMO (a handfiul of watts which won't likely make much difference to volume level) but maybe @PENG can share some more info on the amp sections' comparison. I'd agree the Denon 3300 would be a good way to go for less $ (and it still has the necessary 4k/immersive tech as the others).

Thanks, if I have to get a new avr, then I will, but I’d rather save my money if I don’t have to

 

[lovinthehd]

My comments on the power output was based on the S&V measurements.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-elite-vsx-84txsi-audio-video-receiver-measurements

"The clipping point, with all seven channels driven into 4 ohms, was reached at 178W at 1kHz. A fuse blew at the end of the 1 kHz test.

With two channels driving 8 ohms, clipping was reached at 191W at 1kHz.

With two channels driving 4 ohms, clipping was reached at 332W at 1kHz."


That kind of performance is roughly in par with the Denon flag ship models and beat a lot of integrated amps or even power amps. It did blow a fuse in the ACD 4 ohm test but why they would even bother (and they typically don't) putting that avr through such a torture test is beyond me.

Regarding 4k contents, he can simply connect his source players, cable box etc., directly to the TV via HDMI and use the second HDMI port (some players have 2) to feed audio to the Pioneer. Some media players don't have 2 HDMI ports but I understand 4K capable splitters are now available. In fact I plan on getting one for my PS4 pro.

Those tests are better than I expected from the Pio's spec sheet. As to bypassing the avr for some functions agreed, but that's why I said "with the avr" particularly.

 

[Jason55]

My comments on the power output was based on the S&V measurements.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-elite-vsx-84txsi-audio-video-receiver-measurements

"The clipping point, with all seven channels driven into 4 ohms, was reached at 178W at 1kHz. A fuse blew at the end of the 1 kHz test.

With two channels driving 8 ohms, clipping was reached at 191W at 1kHz.

With two channels driving 4 ohms, clipping was reached at 332W at 1kHz."


That kind of performance is roughly in par with the Denon flag ship models and beat a lot of integrated amps or even power amps. It did blow a fuse in the ACD 4 ohm test but why they would even bother (and they typically don't) putting that avr through such a torture test is beyond me.

That seems impressive. I had no idea

Regarding 4k contents, he can simply connect his source players, cable box etc., directly to the TV via HDMI and use the second HDMI port (some players have 2) to feed audio to the Pioneer. Some media players don't have 2 HDMI ports but I understand 4K capable splitters are now available. In fact I plan on getting one for my PS4 pro.

My only source is an old Apple TV. The HDMI for the Apple TV is connected to the TV, and there’s an optical audio cable between the TV and the receiver. I just duplicated the connections I had for the old TV but now I don’t have audio through the receiver so not sure what I need to do there. Will getting a 4k Apple TV solve that problem?

 

[PENG]

My only source is an old Apple TV. The HDMI for the Apple TV is connected to the TV, and there’s an optical audio cable between the TV and the receiver. I just duplicated the connections I had for the old TV but now I don’t have audio through the receiver so not sure what I need to do there. Will getting a 4k Apple TV solve that problem?

You old AppleTV is not 4k capable anyway so why not just connect it to the receiver. You 4K TV must have multiple HDMI inputs so other 4K sources can connect to that directly.

For audio, the optical audio output from the TV to the receiver should work. If you don't have sound then you need to check you receiver's settings. AppleTV also has an optical audio output so you can use that too. If you want to watch 4K program from AppleTV then yes you need to get a new one.

 

[PENG]

I think D&M's marketing is at play here as well. Marantz made a big deal out of it's HDAM technology as if it were an audio breakthrough.
It makes sense - if you make/sell both Denon and Marantz, you don't want your own models competing against each other.
I'm pretty sure a phono input was more common on Marantz than Denon (though they may be more common on Denon now that they have become a "thing" again). Also seems like marantz is more likely to offer pre-outs - even their slim-line AVR has stereo pre-outs. Both of these present it as more of an audio product despite most likely having the same build otherwise.
It seems that Marantz is "premium audio product" and Denon is "value HT AVR" in D&M's projected sales marketing.
Kind of like Pontiac and Chevrolet used to be.

If they don't want to compete with Marantz on the higher end/audiophile stuff, that would make sense, but why only in the Americas. They still sell/market their ridiculously expensive 50 WPC $6000 integrated amp outside of the Americas. They also still have 1.5 AVR (X8500H, X6400H) that tops the Marantz flag ship AVRs

 

[KEW]

If they don't want to compete with Marantz on the higher end/audiophile stuff, that would make sense, but why only in the Americas. They still sell/market their ridiculously expensive 50 WPC $6000 integrated amp outside of the Americas. They also still have 1.5 AVR (X8500H, X6400H) that tops the Marantz flag ship AVRs

I'd assume they are playing on the reputation in the Americas. Marantz was an established name here long before Denon made its presence know. I think they have been around for a long time, but they were pretty obscure.
I have a High Fidelity's Test Reports, 1977 edition which is a compendium of over 180 reviews I revisit on occasion for reference/nostalgia. There are Seven Marantz units reviewed and Zero Denon. Do you have any idea if they were more present in Europe (or Canada for that matter) in the mid-late 70's?

 

[PENG]

I'd assume they are playing on the reputation in the Americas. Marantz was an established name here long before Denon made its presence know. I think they have been around for a long time, but they were pretty obscure.
I have a High Fidelity's Test Reports, 1977 edition which is a compendium of over 180 reviews I revisit on occasion for reference/nostalgia. There are Seven Marantz units reviewed and Zero Denon. Do you have any idea if they were more present in Europe (or Canada for that matter) in the mid-late 70's?

Not really, they do made a lot of separates including tube amps, class A mono blocks etc. in the 70's, but not in the Americas and probably very limited in Europe. I remember the days in Hong Kong when Denon was a big name, popular, and perceived as higher end than Sansui, Pioneer and Kenwood etc., about in par with Marantz. I just don't know why they don't seem to even try to market their audiophile products on this side of the world. If any one happens (I wouldn't know why either..) to want one of those still available Denon integrated amps, they would have to shop e-Bay, and most of them are used and being sold from Japan. The 2007 Denon AVP and POA were favorably reviewed right here on AH, yet they did not follow up despite the occasional rumors. I think you are right, except they did not seem to use the strategy in Japan and the nearby countries but the reason could simply be that they are firmly established there so there is no need to give up the space to Marantz.

 

[Kai]

Today's AVR's have come a long way since your 11 year old Pioneer.
Within your price point all brand new, major brand, units will offer similar qualities with each brand trying to use something...Marantz, HDAM?...to highlight it over competing brands/models within the same price range but at the msrp you're not going to see one brand/model heads above another...

A new/newer model will be easier to set up and use...within reason...over yours as the graphic user interface has dramatically improved over the years, mainly due to loud and numerous complaints from the consumers. Especially set up and room correction software.

A new model will "play" better with your new TV...you will also take advantage of video/audio signal communications between the two devices with fewer cables depending on set up and use.
Depending on room correction software Marantz offer Audyssey while Yamaha and Pioneer offer their own in house systems. I've used all 3 and prefer the current Audyssey system because of ease of use interface, adjustability via the smart phone app.

I currently own a Marantz SR5011 which I bought as an open box at BB back in '16. It is a great purchase and at a great price but not as good as what you describe...were it me I'd jump on that in a heart beat.

I've owned Pioneer, Elite SX-21THX and a similar quality Yamaha. I've never had a problem with them and the Yamaha is currently being used without problem by my son while the Pioneer is waiting for use in the near future when we move and will likely wind up in my work shop as the brain of a 2 way system.

The major brands offer quality kit and there are very few complaints. You won't go wrong with any of the major brands but try to listen to them first and look at what they offer so you get what you want/need for today and the future...as far as that goes, maybe 5+ years...
Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[KEW]

Not really, they do made a lot of separates including tube amps, class A mono blocks etc. in the 70's, but not in the Americas and probably very limited in Europe. I remember the days in Hong Kong when Denon was a big name, popular, and perceived as higher end than Sansui, Pioneer and Kenwood etc., about in par with Marantz. I just don't know why they don't seem to even try to market their audiophile products on this side of the world. If any one happens (I wouldn't know why either..) to want one of those still available Denon integrated amps, they would have to shop e-Bay, and most of them are used and being sold from Japan. The 2007 Denon AVP and POA were favorably reviewed right here on AH, yet they did not follow up despite the occasional rumors. I think you are right, except they did not seem to use the strategy in Japan and the nearby countries but the reason could simply be that they are firmly established there so there is no need to give up the space to Marantz.

I actually found one on Amazon!
I have no use for it, but it does look nice. Interestingly you can buy with 5 day shipping for $485 or you can buy for $400 if you are willing to wait ~3 weeks for it to arrive from Japan:
https://www.amazon.com/Integrated-Amplifier-50-60Hz-PMA-390RESP-Japanese/dp/B0089K5KIK/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1520117030&sr=1-3&keywords=denon+pma-50#customerReviews