sub for music only

[bradymartin]

been looking at the hsu vtf1 mk3. i like the idea of the hybrid tuning. on sale and with tax around $400
emotiva basx 12
svs sb12 if it goes back down to $400

klipsch rp160 speakers

wondering whats the best option
i think the hsu goes deeper though so leaning towards that especially with the valentines day sale

 

[bradymartin]

also quick question

denon x1400 with the klipsch rp160s on computer desktop
didnt run audyssey because its a computer setup
i checked speaker settings.
default speakers are large. subwooer = no
bass option, lpf for lfe is set to 250. is that correct?
should i change it to 120?

 

[lovinthehd]

Can't help you really with the sub selection. The Hsu if $400 delivered sounds like a great deal, but not sure what the Emotiva is going for and if you're referring to the SB1000 or the SB12NSD? What do you mean for music only, what extension does that translate to? You good with a sub to 30hz for much musical content or do you listen to music with lower frequency content ? How loud do you want it? What volume space is this going to play in?

 

[shadyJ]

The Hsu and Emotiva subs run fairly close in performance, at least with the VTF-1 in 1 port mode. In 2 ports mode, doesn't have as much extension as the Emotiva but it does have significantly more mid bass. The SVS SB12 doesn't have an SPL advantage against either of these subs, but it does have less distortion when run up against its limit. The Emotiva and Hsu subs permit more output, but at those high SPL levels there can also be a bit more distortion. The Emotiva sub seems to run into more distortion overall than the Hsu VTF-1. Detailed measurements can be seen for each one: Hsu VTF-1 mk3, Emotiva BasX S12, SVS SB12-NSD.

There is no reason not to run Audyssey just because you are using it with a desktop PC setup. It still may assist in EQ'ing out low frequency problems. As for the speaker configuration, since you are not using a sub, the LPF for the LFE doesn't matter at the moment. When you get your subwoofer, set the speakers to "small", subwoofer to "yes", and use whatever LPF setting sounds best to you. I would experiment in the range between 60 Hz to 100 Hz.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Good advice guys. @shadyJ, I think he’s looking at lpf of lfe not the XO. I don’t think you meant for him to set that as low as mentioned. Se’?

 

[shadyJ]

Good advice guys. @shadyJ, I think he’s looking at lpf of lfe not the XO. I don’t think you meant for him to set that as low as mentioned. Se’?

The LPF for the LFE in the Denon X1400 looks like just a crossover, if I am reading the manual correctly.

For desktop PC setups, in my experience, subwoofer localization can be more prevalent since the speakers and subwoofer are so much closer than in a room. A way to reduce localization effects is to use a lower crossover point (or multiple, spaced-apart subs). I would say he should experiment with different frequencies and just keep whatever sounds best to him. Bass localization might be an issue for him or it might not be.

 

[lovinthehd]

The LPF of LFE only affects content in the LFE channel (for content that has such, like a 5.1 or 7.1 recording) is my understanding despite the wording used (and normally you'd let LFE content go to 120, the usual limit of recorded content). Only way it makes sense to have a separate adjustment aside from using the crossover, too....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

The LPF for the LFE in the Denon X1400 looks like just a crossover, if I am reading the manual correctly.

For desktop PC setups, in my experience, subwoofer localization can be more prevalent since the speakers and subwoofer are so much closer than in a room. A way to reduce localization effects is to use a lower crossover point (or multiple, spaced-apart subs). I would say he should experiment with different frequencies and just keep whatever sounds best to him. Bass localization might be an issue for him or it might not be.

I actually didn’t read the manual, I just assumed(mistakenly?) that it had both like usual. Seems unusual in my mind not to. I agree for localization to lower the XO, but I wasn’t thinking of a global kind of adjustment.

The LPF of LFE only affects content in the LFE channel (for content that has such, like a 5.1 or 7.1 recording) is my understanding despite the wording used (and normally you'd let LFE content go to 120, the usual limit of recorded content). Only way it makes sense to have a separate adjustment aside from using the crossover, too....

Exactly what I was thinking. If I understood shady correctly, there is not a separate lpf for lfe.

 

[lovinthehd]

I actually didn’t read the manual, I just assumed(mistakenly?) that it had both like usual. Seems unusual in my mind not to. I agree for localization to lower the XO, but I wasn’t thinking of a global kind of adjustment.


Exactly what I was thinking. If I understood shady correctly, there is not a separate lpf for lfe.

Shady linked to the page of the manual talking about both subwoofer modes (LFE & LFE+Main) and the LPF of LFE setting and is typical of Denon avrs at least. The wording on the LPF of LFE setting is "Set LFE signal playback range. Set this when you want to change the playback frequency (low pass filter point) of the subwoofer."

I really am not sure what @shadyJ means by "looks just like a crossover" since it's only an LPF that's somewhat confusing....altho certainly many people take crossover and an lpf to mean the same thing as it's often mislabeled as such on a sub.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Shady linked to the page of the manual talking about both subwoofer modes (LFE & LFE+Main) and the LPF of LFE setting and is typical of Denon avrs at least. The wording on the LPF of LFE setting is "Set LFE signal playback range. Set this when you want to change the playback frequency (low pass filter point) of the subwoofer."

I really am not sure what @shadyJ means by "looks just like a crossover" since it's only an LPF that's somewhat confusing....altho certainly many people take crossover and an lpf to mean the same thing as it's often mislabeled as such on a sub.

Holy $}{it that manual is clear as mud. No wonder people get confused!

 

[lovinthehd]

Holy $}{it that manual is clear as mud. No wonder people get confused!

It wasn't all that long ago Batpig's Denon-to-English dictionary was needed?

 

[MrBoat]

The LPF for the LFE in the Denon X1400 looks like just a crossover, if I am reading the manual correctly.

For desktop PC setups, in my experience, subwoofer localization can be more prevalent since the speakers and subwoofer are so much closer than in a room. A way to reduce localization effects is to use a lower crossover point (or multiple, spaced-apart subs). I would say he should experiment with different frequencies and just keep whatever sounds best to him. Bass localization might be an issue for him or it might not be.

For smaller subs and desktop setups, I have always found it best with the subwoofer firing either under, or at least part way under the desk, if one is to actually sit at the desk listening. Not a big executive desk so much as the partially open PC desks. It seems counterintuitive to trap a sub like that but all I have used here have worked out that way.

 

[Irvrobinson]

For smaller subs and desktop setups, I have always found it best with the subwoofer firing either under, or at least part way under the desk, if one is to actually sit at the desk listening. Not a big executive desk so much as the partially open PC desks. It seems counterintuitive to trap a sub like that but all I have used here have worked out that way.

Interesting. I haven't found that to be the case at all with my desktop system. In two locations now I just put the sub on the side of my desk, the side relatively close to a room corner, and I've been pleasantly surprised by how there's no localization of the bass whatsoever. It's actually sort of eerie to hear ~30-40Hz bass apparently originating seamlessly from my little Audioengine speakers. Perhaps it has something to do with my desk being completely open under the desk top.

 

[MrBoat]

Interesting. I haven't found that to be the case at all with my desktop system. In two locations now I just put the sub on the side of my desk, the slide relatively close to a room corner, and I've been pleasantly surprised by how there's no localization of the bass whatsoever. It's actually sort of eerie to hear ~30-40Hz bass apparently originating seamlessly from my little Audioengine speakers. Perhaps it has something to do with my desk being completely open under the desk top.

The completely open table was the instances I found that firing partly under the desk with the sub outside it or half outside it. I am sure room type has something to do with this. I figured my body would block it somehow but it does not. Same experience though. Seems weird with what often amounts to two, tiny, full range speakers, seemingly putting out large bass.

 

[bradymartin]

change of plan. dont need to spend that much for a computer desktop.
at frys with coupon code the klipsch sub-12hg is at $197 and goes down to 24

the monoprice 9723 is $85 but goes down to only 50. the klipsch rp160s rated down to 45
so why get the monoprice then, but still its only $85

 

[PENG]

also quick question

denon x1400 with the klipsch rp160s on computer desktop
didnt run audyssey because its a computer setup
i checked speaker settings.
default speakers are large. subwooer = no
bass option, lpf for lfe is set to 250. is that correct?
should i change it to 120?

HD is right, LPF affects the LFE (the .1) channel only. 120-150 hz is good, no point setting it higher.

 

[bradymartin]

HD is right, LPF affects the LFE (the .1) channel only. 120-150 hz is good, no point setting it higher.

ok. never ran audyssey. default setting is 250. should i change lpf to lfe to 120?

 

[lovinthehd]

It matters little but no real reason not to set it to 120, the usual limit of such content recorded
in the LFE channel.

 

[bradymartin]

It matters little but no real reason not to set it to 120, the usual limit of such content recorded
in the LFE channel.

ahh i get it. default of 250 is denon just playing it safe.

 

[lovinthehd]

ahh i get it. default of 250 is denon just playing it safe.

Dunno why they would do that, pretty sure my current avrs all defaulted to 120. I think mine will go higher, tho see no reason to check....