High levels dangerous to receiver/speakers?

[yepimonfire]

Your statement is just plain off. Each setup and room is different. I have my subs crossed high, and it’s the best operation for my room. Why is everything “reference level” with every post?

I stated "room acoustics permitting". All I said was start at 60-80hz, which is a fairly well accepted starting point for xovers to subs. High crossover points can cause issues with localization I mentioned in the other post, which is, again, pretty common knowledge.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

 

[highfigh]

I doubt you will damage the receiver, but the speaker you might.

I really think some research before purchase is required. That s35 looks absolutely awful and I would expect it to have poorer speech clarity then a half century old portable or table radio. The thing has 3" drivers for Heaven's sake. We are awash in this sort of product as the high heeled interior designers have the whip hand and not the engineers.

Well, how can an interior detonator build a monument to their design abilities if they can't dictate every aspect of the furnishings? They HATE to see ANY AV equipment and it's one of the reasons I'll be glad to leave the business. Then, they want to tell the cabinetmaker how to build things that house equipment that A) won't fit, B) will cause overheating and C) can't be wired by someone with normal-sized hands.

One desecrator looked at a house where I was working and when he saw the Walnut-veneered KEF 107 speakers, asked "Can those be painted?".

 

[highfigh]

lol yea wife watches alot of British shows & figuring out what their saying is horrible..bluray is better than tv but still not good. yea trim levels are all the way up. center level much higher than others. treble all the way up, & 80% crossover. I just think their entry level warm speakers & there's not a lot I can do about it. system can get uncomfortably loud if i want, but no clarity. I'll probably audition the klipsch 250c next.

First, NEVER jack the levels to their maximum- it will sound bad and if the program material has loud bursts of sound, you can damage the speakers if the duration is long.

I would start over- clear the YPAO, reset all of the audio settings to their defaults and listen- if it sounds better, it's obviously a matter of how the settings were implemented. The main thing the 3" drivers won't deliver is fullness and body to male voices and anything in the bass region. Also, you need to understand that reducing the level of some frequencies will do more to help than boosting anything. As you found, you're at the maximum levels, it still sounds bad and you have nowhere to go but down.

Human hearing is most sensitive in the mid-range. It's necessary because it was critical for our survival as a specie, not so we could listen to music. That being the case, if dialog is hard to understand, it would be good to make sure your hearing is normal. If you have hearing loss in the mid or upper-midrange, you'll need to make some changes to the equalization- bump 1KHz and 3KHz a couple of notches and listen-if it works, great. If not, you might want to find out why it's hard to understand dialog.

 

[highfigh]

So got the 450 today. So far I think it’s a noticeable bump in clarity at low volumes. But I have a question, I did the yapo? Calibration, and of course it had to lower the level of the center considerably to blend with the towers. But it had set all 3 to large. With a 110 crossover. I thought no matter what size most speakers should be set at small. Does the crossover sound about right? I can’t complain about the sound, I may take the crossover down to 100 tho.

Set the center channel to Small and if you're using 60-80Hz crossover for the towers, set them to Small, too. Also, set the sub to LFE+Main.

 

[1313stang]

Yea redid everything. All set to small. 80 crossover. All seems to be good. I think we get blade runner today from Netflix. So I’m curious what it’s going to sound like with a blu Ray.....do when setting everything up do you set things up as your listening to what you mostly listen to? Ie tv, iPod, cd, or mostly watch dts movies, so that’s what you put on while making adjustments?...also do they make a simple reveiver? Turn it on, and it recognizes what codec is needed & just switches to it automatically? Or is that what “straight” is?

 

[highfigh]

Yea redid everything. All set to small. 80 crossover. All seems to be good. I think we get blade runner today from Netflix. So I’m curious what it’s going to sound like with a blu Ray.....do when setting everything up do you set things up as your listening to what you mostly listen to? Ie tv, iPod, cd, or mostly watch dts movies, so that’s what you put on while making adjustments?...also do they make a simple reveiver? Turn it on, and it recognizes what codec is needed & just switches to it automatically? Or is that what “straight” is?

Recognizing the codec makes a receiver 'smart', not 'simple'.

Read the manual- it sucks, but it's a necessary step. Go to the section that explains setting up the inputs- it will include how to use DTS, DTSII, AUTO mode, etc. If it has an ethernet port, it's easier to set it up using a computer- you can see whole screens, rather than one window at a time.

Find the AVR's IP address, then add /setup a the end. If its address is 192.168.0.112, it will be 192.168.0.112/setup

 

[lovinthehd]

For one, it isn't necessary, if I can get reference level output in a 2000 cu ft room with a 50hz xover using the smaller 250c, the larger one will certainly be just fine.

Second, it's too easy to localize subs past 80hz, and actually, I was having some issues with being able to localize my sub at 80hz until I added a second one on the opposite wall.

Third, above 60hz, unless the sub is placed along the front wall with the LCR, the path length differences at 80hz can be large enough to cause uneven responses around the room at the xover point. An 80hz wavelength is 14' long, above 1/4 wavelength, or worse even, 1/2 wavelength difference, there will be areas of cancelation.

Using multiple subs can largely solve this problem, but AFAIK, op doesn't have multiples.

Personally, I am if the opinion one should use the lowest xover permitted by room acoustics and speakers possible. This is coming from experience.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

Mostly I wanted you to explain your position to the OP. In his case the avr/ypao set crossover at 110 the way I read it and generally lowering the crossover in such a case may leave gaps in the filtering. Perhaps a review of speaker placement and another YPAO run may be in order, but not knowing what the speakers are or how they are placed....

He may or may not have localization issues, he doesn't mention. I'm more of the opinion that many speakers aren't very capable in the lowest range and would rather use the sub(s) with as high a crossover as possible. I'd start at 80 in most cases, and go both above and below to judge effect. Personally I use no less than 80 in any of my setups, more commonly 100/110. I also use multiple subs in each setup and don't have localization issues, but even with a single sub I have had rooms where higher than 80 worked. YMMV.

As to the intelligibility of the audio, could be other reasons at play with the source recording and how its being handled by delivery services. One thing I do with brit shows is to turn on the closed captioning so I can read what they're saying as the accent/slang often have me scratching my head otherwise...

 

[yepimonfire]

Yea redid everything. All set to small. 80 crossover. All seems to be good. I think we get blade runner today from Netflix. So I’m curious what it’s going to sound like with a blu Ray.....do when setting everything up do you set things up as your listening to what you mostly listen to? Ie tv, iPod, cd, or mostly watch dts movies, so that’s what you put on while making adjustments?...also do they make a simple reveiver? Turn it on, and it recognizes what codec is needed & just switches to it automatically? Or is that what “straight” is?

It sounds much better if you mount a couple of speakers overhead

I'm a big proponent of manual calibration, both with measurements and further fine tuning that by ear. I've never had luck with automatic setup routines, they get pretty close, but always seem to muck something up. If you're interested, shoot me a PM and I'll help you get a damn near perfect manual calibration.

First, NEVER jack the levels to their maximum- it will sound bad and if the program material has loud bursts of sound, you can damage the speakers if the duration is long.

I would start over- clear the YPAO, reset all of the audio settings to their defaults and listen- if it sounds better, it's obviously a matter of how the settings were implemented. The main thing the 3" drivers won't deliver is fullness and body to male voices and anything in the bass region. Also, you need to understand that reducing the level of some frequencies will do more to help than boosting anything. As you found, you're at the maximum levels, it still sounds bad and you have nowhere to go but down.

Human hearing is most sensitive in the mid-range. It's necessary because it was critical for our survival as a specie, not so we could listen to music. That being the case, if dialog is hard to understand, it would be good to make sure your hearing is normal. If you have hearing loss in the mid or upper-midrange, you'll need to make some changes to the equalization- bump 1KHz and 3KHz a couple of notches and listen-if it works, great. If not, you might want to find out why it's hard to understand dialog.

+1 if you listen at - 10, and crank the center to +12, you'd be getting peaks of 108dB during loud passages. Bye bye speaker.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

 

[yepimonfire]

Mostly I wanted you to explain your position to the OP. In his case the avr/ypao set crossover at 110 the way I read it and generally lowering the crossover in such a case may leave gaps in the filtering. Perhaps a review of speaker placement and another YPAO run may be in order, but not knowing what the speakers are or how they are placed....

He may or may not have localization issues, he doesn't mention. I'm more of the opinion that many speakers aren't very capable in the lowest range and would rather use the sub(s) with as high a crossover as possible. I'd start at 80 in most cases, and go both above and below to judge effect. Personally I use no less than 80 in any of my setups, more commonly 100/110. I also use multiple subs in each setup and don't have localization issues, but even with a single sub I have had rooms where higher than 80 worked. YMMV.

As to the intelligibility of the audio, could be other reasons at play with the source recording and how its being handled by delivery services. One thing I do with brit shows is to turn on the closed captioning so I can read what they're saying as the accent/slang often have me scratching my head otherwise...

I always prefer to verify it with measurements. Ever auto setup routine I've used thus far always sets my center channel to 40hz, it's almost useless that low, and really only extends to 50hz and my own tests with bursts shows it does better at 60hz. Obviously setting it higher isn't the same thing, but automatic setup routines don't always get it right. Outside of measurements, listening and fine tuning by ear is a good idea too. Maybe it sounds better higher or lower.

One could also end up with a gap by setting it ABOVE 80hz, a good deal of subs tank above 100hz.

That's not to say 110hz is good or bad, just that it's best to start at 60-80hz (if the speakers extend that low) and adjust from there.



Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

 

[highfigh]

+1 if you listen at - 10, and crank the center to +12, you'd be getting peaks of 108dB during loud passages. Bye bye speaker.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

Not necessarily, but the amplifier will run out of headroom.