Why didn't they choose an AVR?

[Mikado463]

@Mikeado, Now your after my heart! What class Pass do you have?

X260.8 monoblocks

as for the bologna, try it on a slice of bread (buttered) under the broiler and at the last minute throw a slice of you favorite cheese on top, let it (cheese) start to bubble, turn brown around the edges then remove .......ahhhh !

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Jokes aside, while that is true but no AVRs will come close to the ABH2's pristine SNR/THD+N specs, audible or not is a different story for a different thread. The only AVR that could come close is the Denon AVR-5805MKII. That AVR actually doubled down on Gene's bench too, but the ABH2 still beat it in THD+N in significant way.

At this point, anyone who has followed the OP’s raving of the Benchmark amp realizes this amp does have among the best SNR academically.

At least Eargiant has accomplished that mission.

Okay, we get it.

But hopefully everyone also realizes that all these SNR from all these amps and even $300 AVRs are inaudible, especially when other things like Speakers, Rooms, Recordings can have more significant audible noises!

So at the end of the day, since all these amps and AVRs have inaudible SNR, the salient point is power output for your money.

Again, who cares if your amp has a 130dB SNR if Your amp clips at 108W when you play some music?

If I need a more powerful amp, there are other more powerful amps for $3K or less that will sound as mellifluous as any amp in the world.

 

[Mikado463]

If I need a more powerful amp, there are other more powerful amps for $3K or less that will sound as mellifluous as any amp in the world.

yeah....right.....your definition of 'sweet and musical' is not as cut and dry as you may think, but that's Ok, to each his own !

 

[TechHDS]

X260.8 monoblocks

as for the bologna, try it on a slice of bread (buttered) under the broiler and at the last minute throw a slice of you favorite cheese on top, let it (cheese) start to bubble, turn brown around the edges then remove .......ahhhh !

Mikado, I do believe Mike you are the first enthusiast that I have come across with Pass monoblocks and love's a good bologna sandwich. Thank you for sharing that recipe I will definitely try that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

yeah....right.....your definition of 'sweet and musical' is not as cut and dry as you may think, but that's Ok, to each his own !

Oh well yeah, of course, some amp sounds more chocolaty, some amp sound more minty, some amp sound more forward, some laid back, some more clinical, some more airy, some are warmer, some opens up, and some have faster bass or slower bass like some people claim. I’ve heard most brands of amps.

My amps are perfectly accurate and neutral, and they allow my speakers and pre-pro to shine.

To each his own.

 

[PENG]

But hopefully everyone also realizes that all these SNR from all these amps and even $300 AVRs are inaudible, especially when other things like Speakers, Rooms, Recordings can have more significant audible noises!

So at the end of the day, since all these amps and AVRs have inaudible SNR, the salient point is power output for your money.

Again, who cares if your amp has a 130dB SNR if Your amp clips at 108W when you play some music?

If I need a more powerful amp, there are other more powerful amps for $3K or less that will sound as mellifluous as any amp in the world.

Actually my newest addition, the US$240 QSC RMX850a amp (-100 dB SNR) sounds as good as my $3000 Halo amp and is silent when the furnace fan is on, or off when it's own internal fan is on. Seriously if one needs a low cost 200/300 W amp 8/4 ohm amp that has inaudible noise as long as you cut the fan wire. Yet there is still a better than 50/50 chance I may end up with an ABH2, especially if RichB get his first and then tells me to get one too. The question then is, why wouldn't I just get another AVR? Sorry OP, just kidding!!

 

[PENG]

Oh well yeah, of course, some amp sounds more chocolaty, some amp sound more minty, some amp sound more forward, some laid back, some more clinical, some more airy, some are warmer, some opens up, and some have faster bass or slower bass like some people claim. I’ve heard most brands of amps. To each his own.

To be fair to the OP, if you are not going to stay on topic, shouldn't you start a new thread on subjective review or something like that, or you want me to do it for you?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

To be fair to the OP, if you are not going to stay on topic, shouldn't you start a new thread on subjective review or something like that, or you want me to do it for you?

What is the topic again?

Why didn't SEAS choose an AVR?

Because amps are cooler and amps sell better to audiophiles.

That's why we all have amps, right?

You won't see me getting rid of my fully balanced AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro and fully balanced ATI amps.

 

[RichB]

Actually my newest addition, the US$240 QSC RMX850a amp (-100 dB SNR) sounds as good as my $3000 Halo amp and is silent when the furnace fan is on, or off when it's own internal fan is on. Seriously if one needs a low cost 200/300 W amp 8/4 ohm amp that has inaudible noise as long as you cut the fan wire. Yet there is still a better than 50/50 chance I may end up with an ABH2, especially if RichB get his first and then tells me to get one too. The question then is, why wouldn't I just get another AVR? Sorry OP, just kidding!!

I have an opportunity to buy an AHB2 used for $2400 or an ATI AT523NC for $1200. I'd love to play with the AHB2 but half the cost for twice. Decisions decisions.

- Rich

 

[TechHDS]

X260.8 monoblocks

as for the bologna, try it on a slice of bread (buttered) under the broiler and at the last minute throw a slice of you favorite cheese on top, let it (cheese) start to bubble, turn brown around the edges then remove .......ahhhh !

Mikado, You have any photos you would like to share of them fine monoblocks? Also would like to hear your thoughts on their performance. I went looking on Pass Labs site found them but couldn't find any photos with the hood off.

 

[PENG]

I have an opportunity to buy an AHB2 used for $2400 or an ATI AT523NC for $1200. I'd love to play with the AHB2 but half the cost for twice. Decisions decisions.

- Rich

$1,200 for that one? Brand new with warranty? If yes, that seems like a no brainer. It is much better looking too, than the class D Crown audio equivalents.

 

[RichB]

$1,200 for that one? Brand new with warranty? If yes, that seems like a no brainer. It is much better looking too, than the class D Crown audio equivalents.

Used but these are new so it is still under warranty.
In any event, ATI service is one of the best.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

Used but these are new so it is still under warranty.
In any event, ATI service is one of the best.

- Rich

By the way, did you read Kal's (Stereophile) subjective review on the AHB1? He seemed to have changed his mind somewhat in the end about the AHB2, something about the voice not right, I have to re-read it. I typically ignore subjective reviews, but I do enjoy reading Kal's. Another thing, S&V review the ATI, the multi channel one, and the reviewer (Vaugh I think) subsequently replaced his beloved Halo A51. I thought that may influence your decision somewhat..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

"That's where I discovered that my new hero amp wasn't quite perfect. Oh, its power and resolution were still not to be faulted, but through a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 8 speakers, the sound was somewhat hard and thin. Could it have had something to do with the Silver 8s themselves? While that speaker's minimum impedance is 3.5 ohms at 165Hz, but with a benign phase angle, JA points out that "there is a combination of –34° and 4.5 ohms at 100Hz, a frequency where music can have high energy." Still, he says, "A 4 ohm–rated amplifier or receiver will have no problems driving this speaker to high levels." If so, I would expect the Benchmark AHB2 to be more than up to the task.

But here's how it played out. A 16/44.1 PCM file ripped from the above-mentioned Theessink CD seemed robbed of some of its warmth and resonance. Familiar recordings of women's voices, such as Marianne Beate Kielland singing Finzi's "Come Away, Death" (with pianist Sergei Osadchuk; 24-bit/192kHz PCM download from SACD/CD, 2L 2L-064-SACD), and Sara K.'s cover of "Can't Stand the Rain" from her Hell or High Water (CD, Stockfisch SFR 357.4039.2), sounded strange. Both voices were higher, not in pitch but in tonal range, as if they'd been transformed from mezzo-sopranos (which Kielland is) to sopranos. Again, I would describe it as a loss of warmth and resonance in the fundamentals of their voices. Unfortunately for the AHB2, this loss pervaded the sound of whatever recording I played...

...Back in Manhattan, all seemed better again with the AHB2—except for one troubling event. I've been ripping my CD collection to my 16TB NAS for a couple weeks (already it seems like months), and have become randomly reacquainted with some old favorites—such as the marvelous Emma Kirkby singing Mozart's "Exsultate, Jubilate" (with Christopher Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music; CD, L'Oiseau-Lyre 168055), which I hadn't played in ages. Sadly, the divine Dame Emma sounded to have aged badly on this 1984 CD. Akin to what I'd experienced in Connecticut, her voice was robbed of its bell-like richness by the AHB2, only to have it restored when switching to my other amps."

https://www.stereophile.com/content/benchmark-media-systems-ahb2-power-amplifier-page-2#LMgAqtmbYK72m5zt.99

 

[RichB]

By the way, did you read Kal's (Stereophile) subjective review on the AHB1? He seemed to have changed his mind somewhat in the end about the AHB2, something about the voice not right, I have to re-read it. I typically ignore subjective reviews, but I do enjoy reading Kal's. Another thing, S&V review the ATI, the multi channel one, and the reviewer (Vaugh I think) subsequently replaced his beloved Halo A51. I thought that may influence your decision somewhat..

Yes, but you have to consider his associated equipment.

- Rich

 

[Irvrobinson]

"That's where I discovered that my new hero amp wasn't quite perfect. Oh, its power and resolution were still not to be faulted, but through a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 8 speakers, the sound was somewhat hard and thin. Could it have had something to do with the Silver 8s themselves? While that speaker's minimum impedance is 3.5 ohms at 165Hz, but with a benign phase angle, JA points out that "there is a combination of –34° and 4.5 ohms at 100Hz, a frequency where music can have high energy." Still, he says, "A 4 ohm–rated amplifier or receiver will have no problems driving this speaker to high levels." If so, I would expect the Benchmark AHB2 to be more than up to the task.

But here's how it played out. A 16/44.1 PCM file ripped from the above-mentioned Theessink CD seemed robbed of some of its warmth and resonance. Familiar recordings of women's voices, such as Marianne Beate Kielland singing Finzi's "Come Away, Death" (with pianist Sergei Osadchuk; 24-bit/192kHz PCM download from SACD/CD, 2L 2L-064-SACD), and Sara K.'s cover of "Can't Stand the Rain" from her Hell or High Water (CD, Stockfisch SFR 357.4039.2), sounded strange. Both voices were higher, not in pitch but in tonal range, as if they'd been transformed from mezzo-sopranos (which Kielland is) to sopranos. Again, I would describe it as a loss of warmth and resonance in the fundamentals of their voices. Unfortunately for the AHB2, this loss pervaded the sound of whatever recording I played...

...Back in Manhattan, all seemed better again with the AHB2—except for one troubling event. I've been ripping my CD collection to my 16TB NAS for a couple weeks (already it seems like months), and have become randomly reacquainted with some old favorites—such as the marvelous Emma Kirkby singing Mozart's "Exsultate, Jubilate" (with Christopher Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music; CD, L'Oiseau-Lyre 168055), which I hadn't played in ages. Sadly, the divine Dame Emma sounded to have aged badly on this 1984 CD. Akin to what I'd experienced in Connecticut, her voice was robbed of its bell-like richness by the AHB2, only to have it restored when switching to my other amps."

https://www.stereophile.com/content/benchmark-media-systems-ahb2-power-amplifier-page-2#LMgAqtmbYK72m5zt.99

Such crap. Imagine the frequency response or distortion differences (even TIM) that would be required to produce these audible effects. Or perhaps the differences are completely result of inter-sample overs, and KR was using an inferior DAC. (Not. Most likely just journalistic BS.)

 

[RichB]

There are some good measurements of the AHB2 here:

http://www.avmentor.net/reviews/2016/benchmark_dac2hgc_ahb2_2.shtml

- Rich

 

[PENG]

Such crap. Imagine the frequency response or distortion differences (even TIM) that would be required to produce these audible effects. Or perhaps the differences are completely result of inter-sample overs, and KR was using an inferior DAC. (Not. Most likely just journalistic BS.)

KR also mentioned something I found interesting:

"it was probably the AHB2's low noise level that revealed to me much more apparent low-level detail in already-familiar recordings. I qualify that statement with apparent because, after hearing the AHB2 uncover previously unheard subtle details, I found I could now hear them when I returned to my other amps. I suspect that, being newly informed of their existence, my ear/brain could more easily extract those details from the output provided all along by my other amplifiers."

That's one reason why I don't mind his subjective reviews because he's not shy to admit it when he realized Placebo effect works on him too. (Note: he didn't say that, but it seems obvious that's Placebo).

 

[RichB]

On concern I have is the high-frequency switching noise.
Here is an image from the review of the Theta Digital N-Core amp.
Could this noise be a problem for some tweeters or is the power level too low.

- Rich

 

[RichB]

That's one reason why I don't mind his subjective reviews because he's not shy to admit it when he realized Placebo effect works on him too. (Note: he didn't say that, but it seems obvious that's Placebo).

KR wrote:

Akin to what I'd experienced in Connecticut, her voice was robbed of its bell-like richness by the AHB2, only to have it restored when switching to my other amps."

It seems the AHB2 robs this recording of "its bell-like richness".

- Rich