Subwoofer suggestions?

[elf1]

The more I read from the forums regarding subs, the more I am confused. With that said, I would like to post this question. In terms of relevance what is more important for music.
Size of woofer 8, 9, 12, 15
Watts of sub amp 300, 500 or higher
Ab amp or d class
Size of sub box
One bigger sub (more expensive) or two smaller subs.
I know there are many factors like room size, budget, etc., but for argument sake let's keep that out of the suggestions.

I posed these questions because I just listened to two subs from different manufacturers and I could tell the difference in sound. The smaller 9 in woofer sounded better than the 12 in even the 12 had a 500 watt amp.

Thanks
Elf1

 

[lovinthehd]

The more I read from the forums regarding subs, the more I am confused. With that said, I would like to post this question. In terms of relevance what is more important for music.
Size of woofer 8, 9, 12, 15
Watts of sub amp 300, 500 or higher
Ab amp or d class
Size of sub box
One bigger sub (more expensive) or two smaller subs.
I know there are many factors like room size, budget, etc., but for argument sake let's keep that out of the suggestions.

I posed these questions because I just listened to two subs from different manufacturers and I could tell the difference in sound. The smaller 9 in woofer sounded better than the 12 in even the 12 had a 500 watt amp.

Thanks
Elf1

Rather than hijack this thread, you should perhaps start one; you might start by simply researching existing threads and info on the subject.

The diameter of the cone is just part of a sub's performance, relates mostly to how much air can be moved; larger diameter generally better. Wattage of an amp would depend on the sensitivity of the sub (which is rarely provided for a commercial sub in any case). Most are class D now in any case but really doesn't matter. Size of box relates to the T/S (Thiele/Small) parameters of the driver, and whether sealed (usually smaller) vs ported/vented (usually larger) let alone other box designs. Multiple subs can help smooth response through a room at multiple seats due to the way bass reacts in home-sized rooms (look up Schroeder frequency and subwoofer room modes). This may help too http://data-bass.com/data?page=knowhow&type=1 also look around the site, great source of info/testing for subs.

Auditioning subs can be hard in a store, really depends how well the sub was integrated with the speakers and room....and what you're listening for and what your expectations are.

 

[elf1]

Thanks for the response. I am new to forums, so I am not certain what high jacking the thread means. I simply looked for subwoofer recommendations and posted there. Apparently this was the wrong place. Lesson learned. I will definitely check out the link you sent.
So if testing subs at store is difficult do to their setup, what do you suggest? I need the sub - subs to pair with Magnepan speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the response. I am new to forums, so I am not certain what high jacking the thread means. I simply looked for subwoofer recommendations and posted there. Apparently this was the wrong place. Lesson learned. I will definitely check out the link you sent.
So if testing subs at store is difficult do to their setup, what do you suggest? I need the sub - subs to pair with Magnepan speakers.

LOL no worries and welcome to the forums by the way. Hi-jacking means taking an existing thread and re-directing it with your particular questions/issues (vs starting your own). No big deal, especially if the thread starter has no objection, but you might get better response in a thread dedicated to what you're looking for in terms of knowledge, but there are also existing threads asking basically the same things you are. Check out the various articles on this site in the AV Research and Home Theater Setup tabs above.

I don't "listen" to subs particularly but rather judge them on their accuracy, i.e. performance in terms of extension, spl capabilities, distortion, etc....they're different from speakers operating at higher frequencies. I have several subs I've purchased, and have built as many more now, and didn't audition any of them prior to purchase; even when I lived in the SF bay area there weren't many places to do that in and the selection was extremely limited too. For shopping I'd look to the sub specialists like Hsu Research, SVS, Power Sound Audio, Rythmik, Seaton Sound, JTR, Funk, etc...all put out very good product, some have better in-home trial offers than others, just somewhat depends on your budget

If you have diy/aiy skills that may be a great way for you to go, too. Check out the diy sub-forum on this site or avsforum.com for some ideas there.

Another consideration for a sub is what gear do you have to properly integrate one with?

 

[elf1]

Well at 70 I guess I am not up on the new lingo. In my day you high jacked a plane or car, not a thread. I learn something everyday. I am testing Rythmik L12's. Although I don't know what to listen for, they do seem to complement my Maggie's.

I have built several pieces of furniture, so I have no doubt I can build a box out of mdf. That's the easy part. Adding electronics is another story.
Anyway, thanks for the advice.

By the way - the only people I know that say "No Worries", are from Canada.
Regards
Elf1

 

[lovinthehd]

Well at 70 I guess I am not up on the new lingo. In my day you high jacked a plane or car, not a thread. I learn something everyday. I am testing Rythmik L12's. Although I don't know what to listen for, they do seem to complement my Maggie's.

I have built several pieces of furniture, so I have no doubt I can build a box out of mdf. That's the easy part. Adding electronics is another story.
Anyway, thanks for the advice.

By the way - the only people I know that say "No Worries", are from Canada.
Regards
Elf1

Oh I'm no social media master and less than ten years behind you....just some forum experiences and a bit on FB.

Rythmiks could be good. How are you choosing placement/integrating them? Any sub can complement your Maggies, it's more in how you integrate the sub than what the sub is particularly. Complement is a good word, you don't really want to localize your subs as a separate speaker particularly.

MDF is messy, prefer plywood (baltic birch, high ply count, voidless if possible). Stick to a proven box design for a given driver and it's like following a recipe; you can even buy a flatpack of a precut sub box with a driver from parts-express, or just the flatpack knocked down box from diysoundgroup.com. Not much electronics to add to a basic sealed sub, not in the box at least, just a terminal for the cable from your amp (at least I prefer an external amp, and one that can power two subs). Some amps can provide all the dsp needed for crossover/delay/eq, or use another box like a miniDSP 2x4 for such (and that minidsp unit might help you integrate any sub with your speakers if you only have old 2ch gear with no bass management). Measurement mic and REW software are good tools to have. A lot of free time is a good thing, too. Depends on how deep in the rabbit hole you want to go

I got my no worries from my Aussie friends. Good commonwealth slang?

 

[elf1]

Once again thank you for the information.

 

[MrBoat]

The more I read from the forums regarding subs, the more I am confused. With that said, I would like to post this question. In terms of relevance what is more important for music.
Size of woofer 8, 9, 12, 15
Watts of sub amp 300, 500 or higher
Ab amp or d class
Size of sub box
One bigger sub (more expensive) or two smaller subs.
I know there are many factors like room size, budget, etc., but for argument sake let's keep that out of the suggestions.

I posed these questions because I just listened to two subs from different manufacturers and I could tell the difference in sound. The smaller 9 in woofer sounded better than the 12 in even the 12 had a 500 watt amp.

Thanks
Elf1

I have tried subwoofers from 4.5" - 15" in my listening room. The 4.5" actually added a noticeable amount of bass to the desktop system it was implemented with, at least with near field use.

The first real subwoofer was a 15" that my friend let me try. It was ridiculous overkill and mostly just idled barely flexing it's fat rubber surround at the sound levels I listen at, even when I listened loudly. The box was huge to the point I would have had to put a table cloth on it.

Second I tried was a 12" Ultimax driver in a 2 cu. ft. sealed box. Still a powerful driver and still capable of overkill in my room. It really only sounded great at higher listening levels. A bit much for a music only system. Still kind of on the fence with that one. I could get by with it and make it work and it could be musical enough.

Then I tried (recommended on this forum) a single "Hi-fi" designated (Dayton RSS315HF-4) driver in the same sealed box as the Ultimax mentioned above. Much more refined sound for music, in my opinion. Or at least the music I listen to and happened to end up well matched with the lower frequencies I would be concerned with. Mostly with regard to electric bass guitar, stand up bass, bass notes on acoustic instruments etc., and up to around 150hz+.

Recently I built two 8" Peerless subs in small, sealed boxes, to match some full range driver speakers I built. A system for a desktop or small room. Really turned out to be a nice sounding system. To be honest, at the levels I normally listen at, I could be happy with this setup and it is the most convenient and efficient, really, with regard to room size.

Still, it was the "Hi-fi" 12" that really showed it could cover all my needs being that I use multiple types of speakers and my listening moods change. Sometimes I get into 'louder' moods and want real power. Between that, my experience between the single, and then dual 8" experiments, I landed on dual 12" HF drivers in custom sized boxes that will fit in the available spaces in my room. This should be as capable as at least a 15", but with the efficiency of dual subs. Which should, by effect, place it around the best of those two options.

I could have put an 18" in here, but that would have been awkward. A 15" would have been too. I was not happy about that if that was what it was going to take to get realistic bass performance. These dual 12's, on the other hand, I am excited about. After listening to one and putting it thru it's paces for a few weeks, duals ought to be a stunning upgrade to something that was already quite good.