Which AVR would you go with ...

[ThunderClap]

Funny,

I like the Marantz look better and I do get a feeling Marantz is higher end ...even the 5010 vs the 3300W ..... I feel like Marantz is aimed at the audiophile and the Denon is a ham and egger ...

Now , I know the 3300W is kickass don't get me wrong but the Marantz units look more upscale.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, Denon make High-end also, but not frequently enough to “maintain” that “image”. The last high-end from Denon were the AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro, 10Ch matching amp, and Denon AVR-5308CI. And that was like 5 years ago?

Marantz always have high-end products available to sell any day.

Right now you could buy the $8K Marantz Integrated amp, $7K Marantz SACD player, and $4K Marantz prepro. Any day.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Funny,

I like the Marantz look better and I do get a feeling Marantz is higher end ...even the 5010 vs the 3300W ..... I feel like Marantz is aimed at the audiophile and the Denon is a ham and egger ...

Now , I know the 3300W is kickass don't get me wrong but the Marantz units look more upscale.

You’re definitely not the only one. I think most audiophiles think this way.

Just like most audiophiles think that separates (including integrated amps and prepro) sound better than any AVR.

Most people just can’t help it. Only a selected few people can resist.

 

[Hetfield]

I had a Marantz HT processor once that sounded absolutely gorgeous. One of there best pieces of equipment I ever bought.

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[PENG]

Yeah, Denon make High-end also, but not frequently enough to “maintain” that “image”. The last high-end from Denon were the AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro, 10Ch matching amp, and Denon AVR-5308CI. And that was like 5 years ago?

Marantz always have high-end products available to sell any day.

Right now you could buy the $8K Marantz Integrated amp, $7K Marantz SACD player, and $4K Marantz prepro. Any day.

You can buy those 50w/100w 8/4 ohms Denon integrated for more too, just in the Americas. You can order them from overseas.

Found some great deals on used Denon integrated for you:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DENON-PMA-SX-Integrated-Amplifier-Free-Shipping-Tracking-Number-Audio-Japan-/263394996049

 

[PENG]

Funny,

I like the Marantz look better and I do get a feeling Marantz is higher end ...even the 5010 vs the 3300W ..... I feel like Marantz is aimed at the audiophile and the Denon is a ham and egger ...

Now , I know the 3300W is kickass don't get me wrong but the Marantz units look more upscale.

I also prefer the Marantz look, except I wish they don't use so much plastic in the front.

 

[KEW]

Funny,

I like the Marantz look better and I do get a feeling Marantz is higher end ...even the 5010 vs the 3300W ..... I feel like Marantz is aimed at the audiophile and the Denon is a ham and egger ...

Now , I know the 3300W is kickass don't get me wrong but the Marantz units look more upscale.

The power of marketing... and I say that as someone who bought into it, but I have to say that I think my Denon 4520 is still my best AVR when it comes to capability (I'm not so interested in the latest gee whiz features)

 

[PENG]

The power of marketing... and I say that as someone who bought into it, but I have to say that I think my Denon 4520 is still my best AVR when it comes to capability (I'm not so interested in the latest gee whiz features)

And I really missed my 4308, at the time I didn't know it had the highest 8/4 ohm output on the S&V test bench, among all 4000 series Denon. The 4520 probably was 2nd or 3rd between it and the 4810.

 

[ThunderClap]

I have read in many spot that the Marantz Hdam makes the world of difference and gives it the edge ...

Lemme ask you brilliant Audionuts this - you buy a Marantz, Yamaha, Denon etc each sound different no question , maybe you love the sound etc ....then you run the cables to an Amp ....right?
Is the signature sound changed? is it now the sound of the amp? the booster piece? I mean what the hell does that make any sense?? Why buy an AVR to begin with? And if you need big power buy a bigger AVR - right? what taint that signature sound?

I'm beginning to think there's a lotta bullshat here.... I'm thinking a Marantz 5011 - 12 etc whatever - Denon 3300 etc used as 2.1 simply by hitting the stereo button on your remote is BETTER or just as good as a Dedicated Stereo only receiver .... it's overkill.... now if you're talking separate rooms or whatever fine ....but I can't see having two devices that do the same thing in the same room ....

I'm sure that 3300 is POWERFUL in 2.1 to the point your ears would hurt for a day or three...easily.

BTW after a long bit of speaker testing my ears were hurting for a week or so, clog feeling - not good.

I learned a lot in my testing most of all music at loud db level at close distance is asinine.

 

[Verdinut]

Yes, there is a lot of bullshit when you imply that Denon, Marantz and Yamaha AVRs sound different.

If they're not driven past their limits or into clipping, you won't be able to hear a difference. Where is your reliable info and serious test results to prove a difference in sound?

 

[lovinthehd]

I have read in many spot that the Marantz Hdam makes the world of difference and gives it the edge ...

Lemme ask you brilliant Audionuts this - you buy a Marantz, Yamaha, Denon etc each sound different no question , maybe you love the sound etc ....then you run the cables to an Amp ....right?
Is the signature sound changed? is it now the sound of the amp? the booster piece? I mean what the hell does that make any sense?? Why buy an AVR to begin with? And if you need big power buy a bigger AVR - right? what taint that signature sound?

I'm beginning to think there's a lotta bullshat here.... I'm thinking a Marantz 5011 - 12 etc whatever - Denon 3300 etc used as 2.1 simply by hitting the stereo button on your remote is BETTER or just as good as a Dedicated Stereo only receiver .... it's overkill.... now if you're talking separate rooms or whatever fine ....but I can't see having two devices that do the same thing in the same room ....

I'm sure that 3300 is POWERFUL in 2.1 to the point your ears would hurt for a day or three...easily.

BTW after a long bit of speaker testing my ears were hurting for a week or so, clog feeling - not good.

I learned a lot in my testing most of all music at loud db level at close distance is asinine.

Oh but Denon has ALS 24 or 32 to counter Marantz HDAM marketing.

Did you learn in your speaker testing there's nothing like trying them at home?

 

[KEW]

I'm beginning to think there's a lotta bullshat here.... I'm thinking a Marantz 5011 - 12 etc whatever - Denon 3300 etc used as 2.1 simply by hitting the stereo button on your remote is BETTER or just as good as a Dedicated Stereo only receiver .... it's overkill.... now if you're talking separate rooms or whatever fine ....but I can't see having two devices that do the same thing in the same room ....

Bingo!

If you want to have a great stereo in the same room as HT, this is how I would do it:
1) Get the best speakers you can find for your R&L.
2) Find a center that is a reasonable timbre match for the R&L. If SQ of HT is not critical to you, save some money here.
3) Buy surrounds according to your budget, but do save money here and put it into your R&L. These don't need to timbre match your front speakers very closely and you don't need any deep bass out of them (which also makes life easier if you plan to wall mount them - something like NHT Super Zeros are very accurate and light weight with no port so you can mount straight onto wall). A lot depends on your budget, but let us help you with selection ideas.
4) Use different sources for HT and music. For example, I play both cd's and DVD/BD on my Oppo player. However, I have a Toslink optical connection between the Oppo and my AVR's CD input and an HDMI from the Oppo to my AVR's BD input. This matters because the better Marantz and Denon (and probably others) have a feature where the settings are different for each input (less expensive AVR's may not have, I don't know). Consequently, when I use the CD input, I have it set to stereo and have my subs turned down 2dB fro the Audyssey settings. When I select BD, it goes to 5 channels (I have 5.2 setup) and I have the sub running 6dB hot because that is the way I like my action flicks. Technically, I guess I could use the second HDMI output of the Oppo to the DVD input and set the sub's to their audyssey settings. In that case, I would select BD for action movies and DVD for music videos. But I don't watch many music videos and when I do, I am willing to manually adjust the sub levels.

However, to your point, if you intend to use a sub, an AVR does a much, much better job of integrating it into your stereo system than the stereo receivers do.
The one quasi-exception to this is the Yamaha RN-803 which is a stereo integrated amp that uses Yamaha's YPAO system. I'd want to research it more, but I suspect it has the same bass management as their AVR's
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RN803/Yamaha-R-N803.html?tp=47041&awkw=367494928958&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=223886368442&awdv=c&awug=9010826

But, even in this case, the 803 has nothing on a good AVR, it only equals it...and you must navigate the menu systems without on screen display!

 

[ThunderClap]

Yes, there is a lot of bullshit when you imply that Denon, Marantz and Yamaha AVRs sound different.

If they're not driven past their limits or into clipping, you won't be able to hear a difference. Where is your reliable info and serious test results to prove a difference in sound?

Disagree - Yamaha is significantly weaker = power wise.
Marantz has a Merlot smell swirl of music .
Denon leans metallic


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[lovinthehd]

Disagree - Yamaha is significantly weaker = power wise.
Marantz has a Merlot smell swirl of music .
Denon leans metallic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL.

 

[ThunderClap]

Bingo!

If you want to have a great stereo in the same room as HT, this is how I would do it:
1) Get the best speakers you can find for your R&L.
2) Find a center that is a reasonable timbre match for the R&L. If SQ of HT is not critical to you, save some money here.
3) Buy surrounds according to your budget, but do save money here and put it into your R&L. These don't need to timbre match your front speakers very closely and you don't need any deep bass out of them (which also makes life easier if you plan to wall mount them - something like NHT Super Zeros are very accurate and light weight with no port so you can mount straight onto wall). A lot depends on your budget, but let us help you with selection ideas.
4) Use different sources for HT and music. For example, I play both cd's and DVD/BD on my Oppo player. However, I have a Toslink optical connection between the Oppo and my AVR's CD input and an HDMI from the Oppo to my AVR's BD input. This matters because the better Marantz and Denon (and probably others) have a feature where the settings are different for each input (less expensive AVR's may not have, I don't know). Consequently, when I use the CD input, I have it set to stereo and have my subs turned down 2dB fro the Audyssey settings. When I select BD, it goes to 5 channels (I have 5.2 setup) and I have the sub running 6dB hot because that is the way I like my action flicks. Technically, I guess I could use the second HDMI output of the Oppo to the DVD input and set the sub's to their audyssey settings. In that case, I would select BD for action movies and DVD for music videos. But I don't watch many music videos and when I do, I am willing to manually adjust the sub levels.

However, to your point, if you intend to use a sub, an AVR does a much, much better job of integrating it into your stereo system than the stereo receivers do.
The one quasi-exception to this is the Yamaha RN-803 which is a stereo integrated amp that uses Yamaha's YPAO system. I'd want to research it more, but I suspect it has the same bass management as their AVR's
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RN803/Yamaha-R-N803.html?tp=47041&awkw=367494928958&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=223886368442&awdv=c&awug=9010826

But, even in this case, the 803 has nothing on a good AVR, it only equals it...and you must navigate the menu systems without on screen display!

$749 - wow
I mean the Denon or Marantz is $200
Cheaper.

That’s really getting obsessive...

Pioneer makes this - for a very reasonable $

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Press/PIONEER+ANNOUNCES+NEW+‘SX-10AE+STEREO+RECEIVER

With Sub out not sure it has maac speaker measurement


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[PENG]

I learned a lot in my testing most of all music at loud db level at close distance is asinine.

You are learning fast!! The top 3 influential factors on sound quality are recording/mastering, speakers, room acoustics; and preamps, amps, source players are important too but it does not take much for them to get pass the point of diminishing return.

 

[KEW]

$749 - wow
I mean the Denon or Marantz is $200
Cheaper.

That’s really getting obsessive...

Pioneer makes this - for a very reasonable $

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Press/PIONEER+ANNOUNCES+NEW+‘SX-10AE+STEREO+RECEIVER

With Sub out not sure it has maac speaker measurement


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Unless they state otherwise, it is a safe bet on any stereo gear that the sub output is merely a full range output of the R&L channels combined. IOW, no bass management at all. You would be attempting to match the natural roll-off of your speakers to the best setting you can determine of the subwoofer's crossover knob. It can work okay, but by controlling the roll-off of both the speakers and the sub, the AVR has the ability to match their roll-offs very accurately.

Yeah, I definitely do not consider the RN-803 a good deal as compared to an AVR. Only mentioning it as a rare case of a stereo unit that has bass management on par with an AVR (I think).

 

[lovinthehd]

$749 - wow
I mean the Denon or Marantz is $200
Cheaper.

That’s really getting obsessive...

Pioneer makes this - for a very reasonable $

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Press/PIONEER+ANNOUNCES+NEW+‘SX-10AE+STEREO+RECEIVER

With Sub out not sure it has maac speaker measurement


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They don't even have a proper manual for that thing. I seriously doubt it has either MCACC let alone other than a full range signal on the sub pre-out. Generally if you want to find out check the manual, search for words like subwoofer, crossover, high pass filter....

 

[ThunderClap]

Unless they state otherwise, it is a safe bet on any stereo gear that the sub output is merely a full range output of the R&L channels combined. IOW, no bass management at all. You would be attempting to match the natural roll-off of your speakers to the best setting you can determine of the subwoofer's crossover knob. It can work okay, but by controlling the roll-off of both the speakers and the sub, the AVR has the ability to match their roll-offs very accurately.

Yeah, I definitely do not consider the RN-803 a good deal as compared to an AVR. Only mentioning it as a rare case of a stereo unit that has bass management on par with an AVR (I think).

So in theory a set of bookshelves and a stereo receiver should be the way to go ... or a set of towers ....

In your opinion - matching a sub run thru speaker “B” is half ass guessing .

Steve Guttenberg “ the Audiophilliac “
Loved this : straight , cheap , no sub
No speaker correction - and people rave about its sound.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/this-149-yamaha-rs-202-stereo-receiver-wowed-the-audiophiliac/

$99 A4L


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[lovinthehd]

If the speakers have sufficient range and output to not use a sub great but that usually takes some serious money for those speakers....and few bookshelves even get close IMO.

If you're happy with all that S202 can do, great. Cant stand listening to Guttenberg for the most part, tho.