Stands for Philharmonic BMR?

[MR.MAGOO]

I've got these for my Studio Monitor 65's

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_735SMSTND/Definitive-Technology-StudioMonitor-Stand.html?tp=72862

 

[TheWarrior]

He came by the other day and we discussed the speaker stands. He would like them to store DVDs as well.

Seated in a metal folding chair his ear was 46" high, slouched. The BMR is 20" tall, so I would guess the approximate center of the tweeter would be found 17 inches high.

While I still want to double check these measurements in his home, that means a +/- 30" tall speaker stand.

The height will be fine tuned, and hey, maybe even made adjustable, but the key aspect to discuss is the fillable mass Kurt would like to have incorporated:

Kurt believes that mass loading should occur within the top the speaker sits on to ensure it is given a solid, non resonant 'stage' from which to perform.

My thought is to have the sides slant inwards to eliminate parallel surfaces, and this would allow for at least 3 shelves of movies, and should limit any effect of the high center of gravity (assuming more mass isn't added to the bottom).

Does anyone have comments, experience, recommendations that pertain to this mass loaded speaker 'platform' concept? Or should I run up the street and see if I can find some marble/quartz scraps from the fancy countertop place? (Kurt, the marble idea just popped in my head... I'll try n check that out this week)

 

[KEW]

He came by the other day and we discussed the speaker stands. He would like them to store DVDs as well.

Seated in a metal folding chair his ear was 46" high, slouched. The BMR is 20" tall, so I would guess the approximate center of the tweeter would be found 17 inches high.

While I still want to double check these measurements in his home, that means a +/- 30" tall speaker stand.

The height will be fine tuned, and hey, maybe even made adjustable, but the key aspect to discuss is the fillable mass Kurt would like to have incorporated:

Kurt believes that mass loading should occur within the top the speaker sits on to ensure it is given a solid, non resonant 'stage' from which to perform.

My thought is to have the sides slant inwards to eliminate parallel surfaces, and this would allow for at least 3 shelves of movies, and should limit any effect of the high center of gravity (assuming more mass isn't added to the bottom).

Does anyone have comments, experience, recommendations that pertain to this mass loaded speaker 'platform' concept? Or should I run up the street and see if I can find some marble/quartz scraps from the fancy countertop place? (Kurt, the marble idea just popped in my head... I'll try n check that out this week)

It's not so much a matter of the weight as it is a matter of the weight being loose to shift and absorb energy.
It's probably Overkill either way, but why not?

 

[shadyJ]

I wouldn't worry about mass. It's hard to imagine a speaker stand that is noisy. If the stand is light, and you are using it to store discs, I suppose that the disc cases could rattle at certain resonances, if they are loosely stored. I would just make sure that there is something soft and flat on the top so that the speaker does not move from vibration, like some kind of rubbery mat. You don't want the mass to be at the top anyway, since you wouldn't want a high center of gravity.

 

[TheWarrior]

It's not so much a matter of the weight as it is a matter of the weight being loose to shift and absorb energy.
It's probably Overkill either way, but why not?

Well, you've done quite enough for me in these few short years of knowing you, so I am happy to build whatever!

Like I said, I'll check out the stone works place and see what I can find - figure its a good way to start a relationship for when I'm ready for new counter tops, anyway!

I do also have at least 1" thick walnut that could be used as the top as well. Been saving it cause I haven't needed anything that thick. It's not stainable but would make a lovely dark brown top, the grain is a medium brown in places.

I think Shady is right and the potential for discs rattling means the cabinet should be square, not slanted. I've got plenty of hinges, let me see if I've got enough fabric and can give them wood framed doors with a cloth center so the inside of the cabinet does not resonate. (he also uses rubber feet to secure the speakers)

My other idea is to use my Festool Domino on some mdf and create a heavy base with removable 3/4" layers to make the structure height adjustable. The dominos mean no tools/adhesives to connect each layer and the cuts are tight enough that nothing should shift around. So if I stack several pieces of 3/4" mdf, you've got a couple inches of adjustability - and no sand to clean up to provide a sturdy base!

What color are the speakers? Have you given thought to stand color(s)?

 

[Touchez au grisbi]

I also use the Sanus Steel Foundations SF22 with my BMRs, though in principle I am with Rojo's suggestions...."an embarrassment of riches".

Since the curved cherry Part Express cabinets make placement finicky on the stock rubber tabs that come with the top plate of the Sanus stands, I've attached a few bad pics of how my BMRs sit on these tabs. Dennis himself has recommended sorbothane tabs for isolation, but I assumed that the stock rubber tabs would grip the bottom of the cabinets a little better, even if they isolate worse.
I don't like how far the cabinets extend off the backs of the tabs/top-plate...~1.25 inches off the front (measuring from the rubber tab, not the front edge of the top plate), and ~5 inches off the back. But I give the speaker a "wobble check" and it seems secure. The Sanus stands are rated for 35 pounds and the BMRs are ~38 pounds; but Dennis himself thought that was a non-issue.

I measured from the hardwood floor to my average ear position, and the SF22 (actually 21" from floor to the top plate surface, with no spikes used) usually puts my ears right between the mid and tweeter. The midpoint between these is 13.25" from the base.

All this blab in case anyone else is going the same route.

 

[KEW]

I also use the Sanus Steel Foundations SF22 with my BMRs, though in principle I am with Rojo's suggestions...."an embarrassment of riches".

Since the curved cherry Part Express cabinets make placement finicky on the stock rubber tabs that come with the top plate of the Sanus stands, I've attached a few bad pics of how my BMRs sit on these tabs. Dennis himself has recommended sorbothane tabs for isolation, but I assumed that the stock rubber tabs would grip the bottom of the cabinets a little better, even if they isolate worse.
I don't like how far the cabinets extend off the backs of the tabs/top-plate...~1.25 inches off the front (measuring from the rubber tab, not the front edge of the top plate), and ~5 inches off the back. But I give the speaker a "wobble check" and it seems secure. The Sanus stands are rated for 35 pounds and the BMRs are ~38 pounds; but Dennis himself thought that was a non-issue.

I measured from the hardwood floor to my average ear position, and the SF22 (actually 21" from floor to the top plate surface, with no spikes used) usually puts my ears right between the mid and tweeter. The midpoint between these is 13.25" from the base.

All this blab in case anyone else is going the same route.

Thanks, and welcome to AudioHolics!

 

[Swerd]

I also use the Sanus Steel Foundations SF22 with my BMRs…

I don't like how far the cabinets extend off the backs of the tabs/top-plate...~1.25 inches off the front, and ~5 inches off the back. But I give the speaker a "wobble check" and it seems secure.

Thanks for the photos. They help explain things.

I wouldn't worry about the 5" overhang at the back. Much of the weight is at the front. Those drivers and their heavy magnets are all attached to the front baffle.

 

[KEW]

Look for a stand about 18-20" tall.

Seated in a metal folding chair his ear was 46" high, slouched. The BMR is 20" tall, so I would guess the approximate center of the tweeter would be found 17 inches high.

Richard, what is the 18" to 20" based on? are we missing something or did you get mixed up???

 

[Swerd]

Richard, what is the 18" to 20" based on? are we missing something or did you get mixed up???

My saying 18" to 20" was based only on my (apparently poor) memory of what others had said. If you made some direct measurements, I doubt if you're missing anything.

 

[Touchez au grisbi]

Thanks for the welcome, Kurt, and the reassurance, Swerd.

By the way, my comment about Dennis Murphy "recommending" sorbothane tabs shouldn't be taken as a "strong" recommendation, i.e. something necessary for performance. It's just something he said he'd used before to isolate speakers. Nothing mandatory.

I have limited experience with good speakers, and none at all with subwoofers; but I came to the BMRs from a pair of Ascend Sierra-2s, and I love the BMRs. Both speakers seem excellent, but I have been instantly crazy about the BMRs. The bass response alone is a whole new dimension, but that's hardly all that the speaker is about. I am feeling the itch for new amplification (using an Integra 50.4 135w AVR), but I think that might be nonsense. It's not a very sensitive speaker and I'm not used to having to turn up the volume quite so high; but I don't know if going down the amplification rabbit hole is such a good idea. I am loving the sound anyway, even in my small, definitely non-optimal and basically untreated listening space; so best to resist the vile insatiable audiophiliac "upgrade" (sic) bug for at least a year.

 

[KEW]

Well, you've done quite enough for me in these few short years of knowing you, so I am happy to build whatever!

Like I said, I'll check out the stone works place and see what I can find - figure its a good way to start a relationship for when I'm ready for new counter tops, anyway!

I do also have at least 1" thick walnut that could be used as the top as well. Been saving it cause I haven't needed anything that thick. It's not stainable but would make a lovely dark brown top, the grain is a medium brown in places.

I think Shady is right and the potential for discs rattling means the cabinet should be square, not slanted. I've got plenty of hinges, let me see if I've got enough fabric and can give them wood framed doors with a cloth center so the inside of the cabinet does not resonate. (he also uses rubber feet to secure the speakers)

My other idea is to use my Festool Domino on some mdf and create a heavy base with removable 3/4" layers to make the structure height adjustable. The dominos mean no tools/adhesives to connect each layer and the cuts are tight enough that nothing should shift around. So if I stack several pieces of 3/4" mdf, you've got a couple inches of adjustability - and no sand to clean up to provide a sturdy base!

What color are the speakers? Have you given thought to stand color(s)?

Cherry.
Let's put this on hold until I get the speakers and see how they perform in my room. I may decide to add subs, and if I do, may only need ~12" stands to set atop the subs!

 

[TheWarrior]

Cherry.
Let's put this on hold until I get the speakers and see how they perform in my room. I may decide to add subs, and if I do, may only need ~12" stands to set atop the subs!

So you wanted a weighted stand to reduce vibration, and now you're putting it on top of a subwoofer?

 

[KEW]

So you wanted a weighted stand to reduce vibration, and now you're putting it on top of a subwoofer?

LOL, like I told you, I am still in the brainstorming phase?
If subs are desired, I would like to minimize the footprint by consolidating them unless it results in truly bad locations of the subs.
As a (left-handed) positive; the sand that I said was probably overkill before is no longer overkill!
I would still want the loose weight, but add sorbothane isolators like these between the sub and the stand.
Trust me, after they are built, we can sit glasses of water atop the sub and the BMR, fire up the sub, and watch for vibration! I don't plan to use these for HT, but we'll feed the sub HT to see what gets by!
https://www.amazon.com/Isolate-Sorbothane-Vibration-Isolation-Circular/dp/B019O5OUUM/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_60_lp_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=FGNY83ATAGQH2YT0C6EC#feature-bullets-btf

I'll need to figure the weight of the sand before knowing which pads to use, but these are close to right!

Call it mental masturbation if you like, but I enjoy the design process (used to teach it)! There is no rush, so let me have my fun musing about different options! I probably won't get serious about tying down the details until after I have the speakers! Figure Q2 of 2018 to start the build, lol!

 

[TheWarrior]

LOL, like I told you, I am still in the brainstorming phase?
If subs are desired, I would like to minimize the footprint by consolidating them unless it results in truly bad locations of the subs.
As a (left-handed) positive; the sand that I said was probably overkill before is no longer overkill!
I would still want the loose weight, but add sorbothane isolators like these between the sub and the stand.
Trust me, after they are built, we can sit glasses of water atop the sub and the BMR, fire up the sub, and watch for vibration! I don't plan to use these for HT, but we'll feed the sub HT to see what get's by!
https://www.amazon.com/Isolate-Sorbothane-Vibration-Isolation-Circular/dp/B019O5OUUM/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_60_lp_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=FGNY83ATAGQH2YT0C6EC#feature-bullets-btf

I'll need to figure the weight of the sand before knowing which pads to use, but these are close to right!

Call it mental masturbation if you like, but I enjoy the design process (used to teach it)! There is no rush, so let me have my fun musing about different options! I probably won't get serious about tying down the details until after I have the speakers! Figure Q2 of 2018 to start the build, lol!

Well, since you don't know which room they're going in, you might as well just bring them to my house!

I could totally build a pair of subs to be used as stands too, so you'd have a miniature RBH T2 system! (plus cost of materials

 

[KEW]

Well, since you don't know which room they're going in, you might as well just bring them to my house!

I could totally build a pair of subs to be used as stands too, so you'd have a miniature RBH T2 system! (plus cost of materials

Now that's a pretty cool idea!
But still not sure the subs are a reality (as in I would want or need them)!

 

[TheWarrior]

Now that's a pretty cool idea!
But still not sure the subs are a reality (as in I would want or need them)!

It is a very cool idea for you to leave the BMR's at my house!

You've got brand name sub models, you could offload a few and the SEAS L26's and another crown amp would pay for themselves!