Receiver vs 2ch stereo

[lovinthehd]

I'd rather have a nice integrated stereo unit myself ......

So how many of those have digital capabilities, tho? Or are you just going to add another box via an external dac in such a case? How about any future use of a sub, most integrated amps are useless in that respect....which doesn't matter if you truly have full range mains but those are relatively rare.

 

[PENG]

This is one of the questions I'm trying to get an answer to lol. The 7.8 does not look to be dsd compatible.

I'm good with power ratings I know what I need with that.
Is the 7.8 running 'old' dacs that don't support new "hi res" DSD or am I not seeing that spec listed anywhere on Integras site. Will the 40.7 be more current and up to date with audio play back on high res formats? The 40.7 looks to have higher rated dacs, dsd, or am I wrong?

According to the manual it does has a "dsd direct" mode, but I bet it is for 2.8 MHz only. The 40.1 seems to be the same.

 

[lovinthehd]

According to the manual it does has a "dsd direct" mode, but I bet it is for 2.8 MHz only. The 40.1 seems to be the same.

Which is fine for SACDs as that is what they are.....but unless you can fill us in otherwise, from what I read the 5.6 is more a theoretical thing than anything with a real world application....

 

[lovinthehd]

@pewternhrata do you even have dsd needs? Sounds like you don't even have any since you don't know your 7.8 can handle it....

 

[Mikado463]

I’ve used and owned just about every type of gears.

interesting, I always had my best performance with a set of 4.11 'gears' ......

These days, just give me a nice quality AVR like the $1,000 Denon X3000 series.

I currently use the $7,500 Denon AVP-A1 pre-pro + ATI Amps. I’m not sure they sound significantly better than the X3000 AVR.

to each his own, I'll keep my ARC pre and my PASS X260.8's .......

 

[pewternhrata]

@pewternhrata do you even have dsd needs? Sounds like you don't even have any since you don't know your 7.8 can handle it....

Not at the moment, not sure if the hi res streaming is gonna catch on more or if it's even worth it. I have a Denon DVD 2900 and do plan on getting a few sacd's to try it out.
I know most is hype, but was streaming some hi res audio, it sounded real good (192k I believe) but with those recordings its hard to tell how much better than CD quality it actually is. I keep seeing receivers/stereo amps and integrated flaunting DSD and hi res, so if I do get into a smaller amp is it something worth getting to "future proof"
I'm currently looking into streaming services now, but not 100% set on any (currently use amazon music and YouTube, I'll wait for the laughs)

 

[lovinthehd]

Not at the moment, not sure if the hi res streaming is gonna catch on more or if it's even worth it. I have a Denon DVD 2900 and do plan on getting a few sacd's to try it out.
I know most is hype, but was streaming some hi res audio, it sounded real good (192k I believe) but with those recordings its hard to tell how much better than CD quality it actually is. I keep seeing receivers/stereo amps and integrated flaunting DSD and hi res, so if I do get into a smaller amp is it something worth getting to "future proof"
I'm currently looking into streaming services now, but not 100% set on any (currently use amazon music and YouTube, I'll wait for the laughs)

Not sure why you are connecting streaming and dsd....afaik dsd is just sacd. Not a great format and it's not on the upswing. Don't really know what you have available let alone if it's worth it, but like a lot of audio, a lot of bullshit in the "hi res" area.

 

[PENG]

Not at the moment, not sure if the hi res streaming is gonna catch on more or if it's even worth it. I have a Denon DVD 2900 and do plan on getting a few sacd's to try it out.
I know most is hype, but was streaming some hi res audio, it sounded real good (192k I believe) but with those recordings its hard to tell how much better than CD quality it actually is. I keep seeing receivers/stereo amps and integrated flaunting DSD and hi res, so if I do get into a smaller amp is it something worth getting to "future proof"
I'm currently looking into streaming services now, but not 100% set on any (currently use amazon music and YouTube, I'll wait for the laughs)

I thought dsd sounded better too in the very beginning, but I eventually realize it really was the recording/mastering that made or break the final sound quality. DSD files, and SACDs are typically selling at higher prices. If you look at HDtrack.com, even DSD 2.8 MHz would go for the same price as PCM 24bit/192kHz and DSD 5.6 Mhz or higher would sell for the same or more than that for the 24bit/352kHz.

At such high price, chance is better that the makers can invest on better equipment, process and QA, resulting in noticeably more transparent sound. There is no guarantee, just that the odds are in favor of the higher price DSD 5.6 and higher MHz as well as 24bit/192kHz, 24bit/352kHz. It really has nothing to do with the format, DSD and PCM both an be more than good enough for humans.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I thought dsd sounded better too in the very beginning...

That seems to be the repeating theme in audio.

Amps, preamps, pre-pros, DACs, players, cables, SACD, DVD-A, etc.

My conclusion is that besides the actual recording and room acoustics, the salient component is the speakers/subs. The electronics, cables, and media players are less significant in comparison.

That's why I sold all my SACD and DVD-A on the forum a few years ago.

 

[pewternhrata]

Not sure why you are connecting streaming and dsd....afaik dsd is just sacd. Not a great format and it's not on the upswing. Don't really know what you have available let alone if it's worth it, but like a lot of audio, a lot of bullshit in the "hi res" area.

If I'm streaming, my dac needs to be able to convert the signal, if the cap of the dac is 192/24 then that is the highest I can go. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[lovinthehd]

If I'm streaming, my dac needs to be able to convert the signal, if the cap of the dac is 192/24 then that is the highest I can go. Unless I'm missing something.

I am probably behind the times on what's available to stream now that I look around. I'm good with Spotify, use cds primarily, some other optical discs for higher resolution/multi-ch stuff but not streaming....

 

[pewternhrata]

I am probably behind the times on what's available to stream now that I look around. I'm good with Spotify, use cds primarily, some other optical discs for higher resolution/multi-ch stuff but not streaming....

I'm definitely behind on streaming, seems fairly popular these days. I am with you on plain old cds, cheap and easy to come by no crazy hifi specs, as long as it's a good recording I'm set. The streaming side has me intrigued but I'm not 100% on paying the price for some of the services just yet

 

[PENG]

If I'm streaming, my dac needs to be able to convert the signal, if the cap of the dac is 192/24 then that is the highest I can go. Unless I'm missing something.

There is no such thing as a 2.8224, 5.6448, 11.2896 Mhz dac if that's what you are alluding to. DSD has a high sampling rate but it is one bit, hence the name DSD, Direct Stream Digital. The higher end integra AV processors or AVRs (https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/receivers/a-secrets-receiver-review34/) probably have the mid range Burr Brown/TI DSD, or PCM1793, 1795, 1796 on board that can decode DSD. The older models will likely be limited to DSD64, i.e. 2.8224 Mhz sampling rate, the latest model should be able to do DSD128 but not higher.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dsd1792.pdf (this is the TI flagship so most likely won't be in any of the Integra units)
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1795.pdf
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dsd1796.pdf

THIS article by Mojo may answer some of your questions/concerns.

If you really want to play around, do what I do, get some external DACs. If you don't want to spend too much, there are many low cost usb dacs that can play DSD256 native. All you need is the free Foobar2000 and a laptop or desktop running windows 7 or windows 10. I stream too, but only when I feel lazy, otherwise I use my laptop and one of my several usb dacs.

 

[yepimonfire]

Sorry, thought earlier you actually had a dsd spec on the 7.8. I just looked at the manual and it indicates it handles dsd, altho I didn't see if it was standard 2.8 or the potential use of 5.6 (which as far as I can tell is one of those specs that actually has no real world application).

if you want the best DSD playback you really need a 1 bit delta sigma dac, regular multibit dacs must convert dsd to pcm first, when dsd is converted to pcm, noise is introduced.

Honestly though, Dsd is objectively worse than hi-res pcm.

 

[yepimonfire]

I'm definitely behind on streaming, seems fairly popular these days. I am with you on plain old cds, cheap and easy to come by no crazy hifi specs, as long as it's a good recording I'm set. The streaming side has me intrigued but I'm not 100% on paying the price for some of the services just yet

Spotify premium is 320kbps vorbis, download foobar and convert a CD to OGG at 320kbps. Now do an abx comparison between the lossless wav/flac and ogg file. Hell, I can’t even guess 256kbps at all and 9/10 times I fail to distinguish between 192kbps.

That seems to be the repeating theme in audio.

Amps, preamps, pre-pros, DACs, players, cables, SACD, DVD-A, etc.

My conclusion is that besides the actual recording and room acoustics, the salient component is the speakers/subs. The electronics, cables, and media players are less significant in comparison.

That's why I sold all my SACD and DVD-A on the forum a few years ago.

Yup. I’d stop putting so much thought into dacs, hi res or dsd and amps, and focus more on proper room acoustics and good speakers.

I would always buy an AVR, instead of a stereo receiver, unless I needed something really small like that little Pioneer receiver.

100% second this. You get a built in dac, DSP chip for bass management, surround upmixing, room correction (if that’s your thing) and most of the time streaming capabilities.

 

[PENG]

if you want the best DSD playback you really need a 1 bit delta sigma dac, regular multibit dacs must convert dsd to pcm first, when dsd is converted to pcm, noise is introduced.

Please research the topic more thoroughly yourself before posting generic comments like this. Sorry, no offense but I expect more from you..