Outlaw Model 5000 @ 4 ohms?

[nickwin]

Unless the BG speakers have an impedance curve going down to less than 3 ohms at frequencies below 500Hz , I suspect that the preamp on your Anthem might not be putting out enough voltage to drive the Outlaw to its full potential, because technically, there would be no reason for the Outlaw to be inadequate to drive your speakers.
What you are probably hearing is the amplified clipping distortion coming out of the preamp.
Then, if that is the situation, you have to look for power amplifiers with a higher input sensitivity close to 1 volt for full rated output, such as Crown or QSC pro amps.

What is the easiest way to check if you are clipping your pre out? For the record I’ve used avr’s, emotiva upa500 and a parasound 855a. I thought the upa500 sounded clean at all but the highest spls. I haven’t tried the model 5000.

 

[nickwin]

At what volume control setting did it sound strained?

Was this amp new when you bought it?

Does ANY amp not sound strained with these speakers? You may well be driving the amp into clipping- did you ever consider the possibility that these speakers are the reason the sound is thin?

For the record, the BG speakers I heard sounded great, but I never listened to them at high SPL.

It started to sound thin and a little harsh around the low 70dbs I would say. Again, it’s a big room and I’m sitting 12’ away. My normal volume range on the d2 is -20 to -12.

I bought the parasound used this past summer and it is 15 years old so it’s not out of the question that some part(s) has gone out of spec. I actually haven’t used this amp with any other speakers so maybe I should try that. With these speakers the bass seems kind of recessed. Mids sound flat and the treble seems harsher than with the upa500.

Do these speakers not sound strained with ANY amp? That’s a good question. AVR3808 sounded somewhat strained (thin). AVR 3805 was very strained. This is going way back off memory but I don’t think they sounded strained with Rotel Rb1080. And to be fair to the upa500 it sounded fine until pushed to where you would expect to clip. I would say they didn’t sound strained with either of those amps.

The speakers are certainly on the “thin” side sound wise. They seem to be very neutral, no boost in the mid bass, no notch in the lower treble and the treble is slightly elevated and ever so slightly peaky. That said, they I have heard them be subjectively pleasing in this room. I have some in room response graphs I could post if that’s of any value.

It seems the emotiva was either controlling the drivers better resulting in more perceived bass and mids or it was adding some coloration or distortion that seemed to add some “warmth”. It sounded good to me which makes me thing the former, but they 855a is so much more robust on paper that I can’t figure out why that would be the case.

 

[highfigh]

It started to sound thin and a little harsh around the low 70dbs I would say. Again, it’s a big room and I’m sitting 12’ away. My normal volume range on the d2 is -20 to -12.

I bought the parasound used this past summer and it is 15 years old so it’s not out of the question that some part(s) has gone out of spec. I actually haven’t used this amp with any other speakers so maybe I should try that. With these speakers the bass seems kind of recessed. Mids sound flat and the treble seems harsher than with the upa500.

Do these speakers not sound strained with ANY amp? That’s a good question. AVR3808 sounded somewhat strained (thin). AVR 3805 was very strained. This is going way back off memory but I don’t think they sounded strained with Rotel Rb1080. And to be fair to the upa500 it sounded fine until pushed to where you would expect to clip. I would say they didn’t sound strained with either of those amps.

The speakers are certainly on the “thin” side sound wise. They seem to be very neutral, no boost in the mid bass, no notch in the lower treble and the treble is slightly elevated and ever so slightly peaky. I have some in room response graphs I could post if that’s of any value.

It seems the emotiva was either controlling the drivers better resulting in more perceived bass and mids or it was adding some coloration or distortion that seemed to add some “warmth”. It sounded good to me which makes me thing the former, but they 855a is so much more robust on paper that I can’t figure out why that would be the case.

Did you buy the speakers new, or used? I have seen speakers that had been serviced and a driver's polarity was reversed. One was in a recording studio- the owner asked me to bring the RTA from the car audio shop where I worked and as soon as I heard the sound, it was apparent (to me) that they had a phase problem and the RTA confirmed it by showing a deep V in the response in the crossover region. When I asked if any drivers had been replaced, he told me the tweeter on one monitor was new, but he hadn't been the one who did it. Once the wires were reversed, all was good.

Turn the balance control to one side and listen- if it improves the sound, find out why. On an AVR, you would obviously do this by adjusting the speaker level in the menu. If the bass improves, it would point to a reversed woofer OR possibly the speaker wires.

I find it odd that you're blaming amplifiers and then, describe the speakers' sound as 'thin'. That and the reflected sound isn't a good combination if you like a warmer sound.

If you're using a sub, you're not hearing any results of an amplifier controlling anything, for better or worse.

 

[nickwin]

Did you buy the speakers new, or used? I have seen speakers that had been serviced and a driver's polarity was reversed. One was in a recording studio- the owner asked me to bring the RTA from the car audio shop where I worked and as soon as I heard the sound, it was apparent (to me) that they had a phase problem and the RTA confirmed it by showing a deep V in the response in the crossover region. When I asked if any drivers had been replaced, he told me the tweeter on one monitor was new, but he hadn't been the one who did it. Once the wires were reversed, all was good.

Turn the balance control to one side and listen- if it improves the sound, find out why. On an AVR, you would obviously do this by adjusting the speaker level in the menu. If the bass improves, it would point to a reversed woofer OR possibly the speaker wires.

I find it odd that you're blaming amplifiers and then, describe the speakers' sound as 'thin'. That and the reflected sound isn't a good combination if you like a warmer sound.

If you're using a sub, you're not hearing any results of an amplifier controlling anything, for better or worse.

Hmm, one of the woofers on one of the 4 towers was replaced. Not even sure which speaker it is now though. I’ll look at my graphs again and see if I see any red flags. There may actually be something too this, I think I swapped one of my front towers with one of the rears right around the same time I installed the 885.

Regarding the tonality of the speakers, they are neutral so of course they will tend to sound thin/bright more often and in more situations than a warm speaker. They didn’t sound thin with the upa500. My preferences is neutral, but just like a warm speaker will tend to sound boomy or muddy in some rooms, neutral one will sound thin/bright in some rooms. That said the treble is maybe not the smoothest on these.

I’ve ran them both full range and with subs. Even with subs they are still playing the mid bass and some of the lower bass. XO is not a brick wall... plus it looks like the toughest part of the load of these speakers is in the mid bass.

 

[Verdinut]

Hmm, one of the woofers on one of the 4 towers was replaced. Not even sure which speaker it is now though. I’ll look at my graphs again and see if I see any red flags. There may actually be something too this, I think I swapped one of my front towers with one of the rears right around the same time I installed the 885.

Regarding the tonality of the speakers, they are neutral so of course they will tend to sound thin/bright more often and in more situations than a warm speaker. They didn’t sound thin with the upa500. My preferences is neutral, but just like a warm speaker will tend to sound boomy or muddy in some rooms, neutral one will sound thin/bright in some rooms. That said the treble is maybe not the smoothest on these.

I’ve ran them both full range and with subs. Even with subs they are still playing the mid bass and some of the lower bass. XO is not a brick wall... plus it looks like the toughest part of the load of these speakers is in the mid bass.

You mention that the toughest part for the speaker load is most likely the mid bass. Please refer to my Post#36 in which I indicated that your speakers might have a low impedance dip in the low mid frequencies. That might make them hard for some amplifiers. If that is the case, you would need an amplifier that can drive low impedance speakers, such as the QSC DCA1222 which I use, which can drive speakers with impedance as low as 1.6 ohms without any hitch.
You would need to check their impedance curve with something like the affordable Dayton DATS V2 speaker testing system and you would have an exact answer.

To verify the preamp voltage output and THD, you would need an audio generator, a good voltage meter and a distortion analyzer. IMO, it would be more practical to have your AVR checked by a reliable technician.