What are my rights here in Ontario canada ?

[Muzique Junkie]

PENG
Thanks mate , thats ok , i dont expect you to do all the work , im here requesting assistance , so thank you

TLS Guy
"Sorry to pester you with questions,"

Im here requesting help , your not pestering atall.

No the speakers did not pop , the amp flashed/popped .

" it seems these failures have mainly been in the power supply, as both channels failed. Is that correct?"

Im not sure what you mean by both channels failed . The entire amp failed .

"the manufacturer and the dealer they need to reimburse you $5000 or whatever you paid for that Blue Note amp"

Thats what i was expecting as up to this point all i heard about Gilbert from the dealer was what an honourable man he was , how concerned he is for customer satisfaction , and how embarrassed a failure makes him . Also read the Mystic audio mission statement , WOW . None of those words are true , just hot air IMHO

PS , no biggie , but its a Blue circle amp

TLS Guy
"Blue Note amps like his are junk."

Thanks TLS Guy , but the amp is a Blue circle , i dont want to be dissing a blue note amp , i have never owned one .

mtrycrafts
thank you mate

Volume is not a digital display , its manual , and before on or off i assure volume is always at zero

About the order of things , i cant recall at this point . It seems to make sense id turn amp on 1st , im willing to bet i did , but cannot swear to it

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Thank you all

Here is his reply on CAM , its like half truths mixed with fiction

He explains nothing really , and i was not opposed to shipping or delivering to Dynaudio ,the truth he missed telling is that i was waiting for him to co ordinate shipping or delivery to some un named depot he was suppose to contact

I wonder why he never made that contact , and instead later said he by chance ran into 2 different Dyn reps at an audio show in Toronto a few weeks ago who both offered support to his/Blue circles theory that the Dyns blew the amp

Heres his reply



My response to the posting:

1. Many hours were spent coordinating with the customer to determine the root cause of the failure of the amplifier. The customer was reluctant or unwilling to have any other equipment in his system inspected due to the travel cost as he does not drive and lives in a remote area. It is very difficult to assess the problem without having access to all the parts in a system and in this case I still cannot say what caused this failure.

2. At no time was the customer told the speakers were at fault. The customer was told the speakers could have been damaged by overdriving and caused a dead short and even a partial failure can drop the impedance down to near zero under certain conditions. Dynaudio recommended the speakers be bench tested under load.

3. The customer was not asked to pay the repair cost as the root cause was not yet determined. The customer was not billed for this repair.

4. During the problem solving process the customer indicated a lack of confidence in the quality of the Blue Circle amplifier and asked for recommendations for replacement with another brand. I am a Hegel dealer and we discussed this brand as an alternate.

5. I recommended we continue to problem solve before making a change however the customer made a decision to purchase a Hegel and placed an order. My concern was that without knowing what the actual problem was there was a possibility of a failure in the future even with a different amplifier. The customer was adamant that he wanted the Hegel therefore we negotiated a trade in value, no repair costs were billed, no shipping was charged and the customer agreed to this transaction and contacted me frequently during the next 2 days to have the Hegel delivered ASAP which with the assistance of Hegel we were able to accommodate the customers request.

6. The customer asked for a full refund on the Blue Circle amp and I had offered this if it was determined that the amplifier was defective. At the time however this was not determined as we were still in the problem solving stage.

7. The customer was given an invoice via mail and can ask for another copy at anytime.

8. I was not made aware of his dissatisfaction until this posting.

9. All purchases are accounted for and appropriate taxes are always filed.

10. Gilbert at Blue Circle has been supporting this process and is fully aware of the current situation.

In summary, the customer had every right to be concerned and frustrated with a product failure. I answered all questions and followed up with industry experts and 2 fellow dealers for any insights or experiences that could assist in determining the root cause. I ensured the customer has all the information possible as soon as I had updates. The customer, without suggestion or pressure on my part, chose this solution.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Wow. What a story. I wish I had 5k to lose on an amp. I can’t believe that’s how someone would treat a customer. Especially one willing to spend that kind of dough. I agree with mark totally. That jerk owes you big time, with an apology to boot. I’d offer his teeth back to him for compensation. Probably leave my boot up his a$$ too.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Wow. What a story. I wish I had 5k to lose on an amp. I can’t believe that’s how someone would treat a customer. Especially one willing to spend that kind of dough. I agree with mark totally. That jerk owes you big time, with an apology to boot. I’d offer his teeth back to him for compensation. Probably leave my boot up his a$$ too.

Thanks

That was a nice break for a larf for me

I cant picture myself doing tose things , and tryin to pic it gave ma a larf

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
mtrycrafts
thank you mate

Volume is not a digital display , its manual , and before on or off i assure volume is always at zero

About the order of things , i cant recall at this point . It seems to make sense id turn amp on 1st , im willing to bet i did , but cannot swear to it

Since I am not familiar with that amp other than the link at that audio store page, it needs a preamp where the volume control is. I doubt anyone turns the volume down whether an AVR or preamp, no real need as the source into the preamp is not playing. Here nor there.
Amps are usually turned off first and on last so the components before it will not send current inrush signal when they are turned on in which case you'd hear it in the speakers a nice pop/ping.

If that amp has a 2 year warranty, all this should be covered and if cannot be fixed, funds refunded.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks

That was a nice break for a larf for me

I cant picture myself doing tose things , and tryin to pic it gave ma a larf

My pleasure! Still say I’d be missing a boot.

Anyway, I can’t get around the BS about the two Dyn reps just “offering up” randomly that they’ve had this problem. Sure, I’m Donald Trump. I also agree as it’s been said, if that thing is under warranty of any kind, after 2 mysterious failings, they need to eat the amp, and replace it. Then they can refurb it at their leisure and sell it appropriately.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

@mtrycrafts
@William Lemmerhirt
Thank you again for all your input

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@mtrycrafts
@William Lemmerhirt
Thank you again for all your input

Roger that! It’s an interesting thread. Hope you like it here.

 

[PENG]

Since I am not familiar with that amp other than the link at that audio store page, it needs a preamp where the volume control is. I doubt anyone turns the volume down whether an AVR or preamp, no real need as the source into the preamp is not playing. Here nor there.
Amps are usually turned off first and on last so the components before it will not send current inrush signal when they are turned on in which case you'd hear it in the speakers a nice pop/ping.

If that amp has a 2 year warranty, all this should be covered and if cannot be fixed, funds refunded.

I agree one should always turned an integrated amp on last, after the source input device is turned on. If one forgets to do that, he may hear a pop, depending on the design of the specific amp, that typically wouldn't cause the amp itself to blow. It may do some damage to the speakers, if done repeatedly.

In the OP's case, I would agree that those Dyns are not easy loads, as they have specified sensitivity of 87 dB and impedance of 4 ohms. It sucks that they did not say 87 dB at 2.83V or 1W but let's assume it is at 2.83V just to be on the safe side. So that's equivalent to speakers specified as 8 ohms nominal with sensitivity at 84 dB at 2.83V, or 81 dB 1W/1M. Definitely not an easy load, but we are talking about a 300W/600W rated class D amp here. Now let's heed TLSGuy's remarks about class D amps (Note: not all class D amps have the limitations he referred to) for the moment, so let's de-rate his amp to something like 200W 8 ohms, 150W 4 ohms, just to be super conservative.

OP said he did not listen loud at all, he did sit 15 ft away, so let's further de-rate his amp output by another full 13 dB, that is without allowing for room gain and the effects of two speakers. That means he will get 68 dB from his listening position with the amp outputting just 1 watt!!

That means if what he meant by

Not loud atall ,as i have neighbours bedrooms and childrens directly below the speakers

was 75 dB or less of spl, then the amp would have been outputting about 5 watts !!! Add 15 dB of dynamic peaks that should be rare except for classical music and movies, the amp would still be outputting only 160 watts.

Note that the assumptions I made above are unrealistically conservative. In all probability, I would say the amp did not blow twice because of the very nice Dynaudio Focus 340 speakers, unless they are defective. We all know the OP is enjoying his same speakers with the Hegel H360. The H360 is just another integrated amp that is not overly powerful, so how likely is it that the Focus 340s had, and still have some sort of hidden defect? I highly doubt that, and I would love to have a word of the Dynaudio reps about their claim that those little 250 W IEC long term rated speakers could blow a 300/600 W rated class D amp, unless the said amp was poorly design or had some sort of defect.

Not knowing anything about that amp, and know very well Dynaudio's reputation and competence in speakers design, I know where I would bet my money on.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

I agree one should always turned an integrated amp on last, after the source input device is turned on. If one forgets to do that, he may hear a pop, depending on the design of the specific amp, that typically wouldn't cause the amp itself to blow. It may do some damage to the speakers, if done repeatedly.

In the OP's case, I would agree that those Dyns are not easy loads, as they have specified sensitivity of 87 dB and impedance of 4 ohms. It sucks that they did not say 87 dB at 2.83V or 1W but let's assume it is at 2.83V just to be on the safe side. So that's equivalent to speakers specified as 8 ohms nominal with sensitivity at 84 dB at 2.83V, or 81 dB 1W/1M. Definitely not an easy load, but we are talking about a 300W/600W rated class D amp here. Now let's heed TLSGuy's remarks about class D amps (Note: not all class D amps have the limitations he referred to) for the moment, so let's de-rate his amp to something like 200W 8 ohms, 150W 4 ohms, just to be super conservative.

OP said he did not listen loud at all, he did sit 15 ft away, so let's further de-rate his amp output by another full 13 dB, that is without allowing for room gain and the effects of two speakers. That means he will get 68 dB from his listening position with the amp outputting just 1 watt!!

That means if what he meant by


was 75 dB or less of spl, then the amp would have been outputting about 5 watts !!! Add 15 dB of dynamic peaks that should be rare except for classical music and movies, the amp would still be outputting only 160 watts.

Note that the assumptions I made above are unrealistically conservative. In all probability, I would say the amp did not blow twice because of the very nice Dynaudio Focus 340 speakers, unless they are defective. We all know the OP is enjoying his same speakers with the Hegel H360. The H360 is just another integrated amp that is not overly powerful, so how likely is it that the Focus 340s had, and still have some sort of hidden defect? I highly doubt that, and I would love to have a word of the Dynaudio reps about their claim that those little 250 W IEC long term rated speakers could blow a 300/600 W rated class D amp, unless the said amp was poorly design or had some sort of defect.

Not knowing anything about that amp, and know very well Dynaudio's reputation and competence in speakers design, I know where I would bet my money on.

Thanks mate

This has been a hot topic on CAM ,where the dealer has been caled out , and not with adhoms

Business practices were called out

I have received what appears an apologetic text from him this morning

Asking if we can reach some resolution

Im not sure whats meant by resolution tho only time will tell

I feel the original thing to do would to have given me a full refund on the 2x failed product , and i would have definitely sunk all of that money and more into this new H 360

All my business would have continued there from that moment on

Im not sure whats next for me , any suggestions are welcome

I was not prepared for this

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

Asking if we can reach some resolution

...

Interesting. there is only one solution in my opinion.
Fix the amp and keep fixing it in the warranty period as this failure will surely happen in the future.
Or, return the amp for a full refund.

The latter is your only real option as the failures will continue.

 

[PENG]

Thanks mate

This has been a hot topic on CAM ,where the dealer has been caled out , and not with adhoms

Business practices were called out

I have received what appears an apologetic text from him this morning

Asking if we can reach some resolution

Im not sure whats meant by resolution tho only time will tell

I feel the original thing to do would to have given me a full refund on the 2x failed product , and i would have definitely sunk all of that money and more into this new H 360

All my business would have continued there from that moment on

Im not sure whats next for me , any suggestions are welcome

I was not prepared for this

One thing I feel is important for you to do is to register your H360 to make sure it is getting the factory warranty. Then you can take the time to figure out how to approach your dealer to get the full refund for the Blue Circle amp.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

@mtrycrafts
@PENG
Thank you yet again

 

[Muzique Junkie]

As yous may know i started a feedback thread on mystic audio on CAM

I was getting great feedback , no slander/liber or foul language

All within rules chat

It appears that after many days most of the thread has been deleted

I cannot get an explanation for it

Has ny one else ever experienced that?

The thread was entitled "

Mystic audio was a nightmare to deal with
"

Thank you

 

[mtrycrafts]

As yous may know i started a feedback thread on mystic audio on CAM

I was getting great feedback , no slander/liber or foul language

All within rules chat

It appears that after many days most of the thread has been deleted

I cannot get an explanation for it

Has ny one else ever experienced that?

The thread was entitled "

Mystic audio was a nightmare to deal with
"

Thank you

Don't expect to get a reply why deleted.
Simple. Bad publicity.

Does the company accept warranty directly? Tell them of the issue you are having with the dealer and you want a resolution.
Did you file a report with your BBB there? You should.

 

[rojo]

As yous may know i started a feedback thread on mystic audio on CAM

I was getting great feedback , no slander/liber or foul language

All within rules chat

It appears that after many days most of the thread has been deleted

I cannot get an explanation for it

Has ny one else ever experienced that?

The thread was entitled "

Mystic audio was a nightmare to deal with
"

Thank you

Not with Canuck Audio Mart specifically, but I believe Barbara Streisand experienced a similar situation.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Well it appears someone else there has received a response from Mystic audio , telling him hes ready to resolve this , that he wants to satisfy me ,yet i havent received any notice , and some random person has

Someone who speaks well of Mystic audio as well

Then my reply to that member got deleted



Not sure why , so i tried again with this reply to him



"My reply to your above disappeared

I wonder what did i violate ?

Im glad you like his showroom and website

So do i

Im still waiting to hear from him .Im glad you got a response

I wonder why i havent ?

I simply mentioned i have no detailed receipt yet ,tho im told it was in mail long ago i have no idea what i paid for the H360

Maybe I cant mention numbers of what i paid so far here ?

I mentioned other dealers offer a great deal across Ontario , even with a throw in

I did not mention names tho , just numbers

I only hope Mystic audio can match those numbers

Again im confused as to why you got a response and im still in the dark

Cheers"

I mentioned other dealers in Ontario(And a few more Canada wide) offered great deals on the H360 . From 6400.00 to 6500.00 out the door .One even offered to toss in a Niagra 1000 with it

I mentioned i was promised a detailed receipt over a week ago? or so and havent got it yet

The details need to have true cost of H360 and my trade in value of Blue circle(And a serial number)

I mentioned i paid 4900.00 for the Blue circle but still couldnt do the math to figure the real numbers out

Does it seem i violated rules there ?

Things really swing in a dealers favour it appears when he pays to advertise there)At least this is what i suspect,and cant explain otherwise)

Cheers

 

[Johnny2Bad]

... [snip] ...
In the OP's case, I would agree that those Dyns are not easy loads, as they have specified sensitivity of 87 dB and impedance of 4 ohms. It sucks that they did not say 87 dB at 2.83V or 1W but let's assume it is at 2.83V just to be on the safe side. So that's equivalent to speakers specified as 8 ohms nominal with sensitivity at 84 dB at 2.83V, or 81 dB 1W/1M.
... [snip] ...

Just to clarify, generally the sensitivity would be measured at 2.83v/1m
I really don't know of a reputable loudspeaker manufacturer that would use any other level to measure sensitivity.

The reason is the power measurement varies with load; 2.83v is "power agnostic"; 1 watt on an 8 ohm speaker but 2 watts on a 4 ohm speaker (load), 4 watts on a 2 ohm load, etc. By using 2.83v you take the impedance out of the equation, and sensitivity can be compared with other loudspeaker systems of inevitably differing impedance (it's also unlikely that any speaker is exactly 8 or 4 or 2 ohms at 1 KHz, the frequency used to measure sensitivity, because all loudspeaker frequency response curves and specifications are referenced to 1 KHz, also for comparative consistency).

So you really would not want (or assume) the sensitivity would be measured at 1w/1m for a 4 ohm speaker. Also, the marketing department (always interested in competitive advantage or in this case, disadvantage) would not want sensitivity for a 4 ohm speaker to be referenced to 1w as that would give a lower dB rating vs 2.83v

Perhaps more importantly, using 2.83v means two speakers connected to the same amplifier* and with the same music or test tone would reflect exactly how loud each would actually play if measured with a Sound Pressure Mwter, or via your ears.

* Assuming the amp was not transformer-coupled, such as most Solid State amps.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Just to clarify, generally the sensitivity would be measured at 2.83v/1m
I really don't know of a reputable loudspeaker manufacturer that would use any other level to measure sensitivity.

The reason is the power measurement varies with load; 2.83v is "power agnostic"; 1 watt on an 8 ohm speaker but 2 watts on a 4 ohm speaker (load), 4 watts on a 2 ohm load, etc. By using 2.83v you take the impedance out of the equation, and sensitivity can be compared with other loudspeaker systems of inevitably differing impedance (it's also unlikely that any speaker is exactly 8 or 4 or 2 ohms at 1 KHz, the frequency used to measure sensitivity, because all loudspeaker frequency response curves and specifications are referenced to 1 KHz, also for comparative consistency).

So you really would not want (or assume) the sensitivity would be measured at 1w/1m for a 4 ohm speaker.

Thank you mate

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Not with Canuck Audio Mart specifically, but I believe Barbara Streisand experienced a similar situation.

Now that was funny

I have to remember this one

Cheers