What are my rights here in Ontario canada ?

[highfigh]

Canada has robust consumer protection legislation in areas of Federal jurisdiction (advertising, consumer fraud), and each province has more robust legislation (the way the Canadian confederation is structured, the Provinces have power over the Federal Government in most areas of jurisdiction). Ontario in particular has excellent consumer protection law.

This would be great in the US- I know someone who has about 12 judgements against him and he hasn't satisfied any of them because he knows they have no teeth. If it would do any good, I would have sued him, too. All of them are for money owed to people he had known for many years- I "knew" him for over 20 years before he did his magic trick.

In the US, EVERYTHING in the legal arena requires a lawyer if the plaintiff wants a good outcome but then, who designed our court system? Lawyers. It's just security.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

@Johnny2Bad

"280D what? A Diesel Mercedes? Some kind of Audio device? Be specific, please."

Sim audio 280D .Its right there in the 5th line "made me think i had to keep my Sim audio 280D"


@highfigh @ mtrycrafts

Thank you . Thats very true

Of worthy note , the speakers were A okd by dyn service , and have drove 3 amps without a hitch over the last few days

Would that not indicate a wrong diagnosis by the dealer/manufacturer ?

Thanks guys

 

[Johnny2Bad]

@Johnny2Bad

"280D what? A Diesel Mercedes? Some kind of Audio device? Be specific, please."

Sim audio 280D .Its right there in the 5th line "made me think i had to keep my Sim audio 280D"


@highfigh @ mtrycrafts

Thank you . Thats very true

Of worthy note , the speakers were A okd by dyn service , and have drove 3 amps without a hitch over the last few days

Would that not indicate a wrong diagnosis by the dealer/manufacturer ?

Thanks guys

The wrong diagnosis depends on whether both channels required replacing of the output transistors or only one channel. That's why I suggested you find that information (and you haven't yet done).

 

[Muzique Junkie]

The wrong diagnosis depends on whether both channels required replacing of the output transistors or only one channel. That's why I suggested you find that information (and you haven't yet done).

Thanks

I have left a message asking for details a few days ago . No reply yet tho

At this point i would be suspicious of any report given me . How would i be certain im not being fed another line ?

"depends on whether both channels required replacing of the output transistors or only one channel."

Does one of those reports point to the amp and the other to the speakers ?

I would suspect if it depends on the diagnosis he would know which one to give , but im willing to listen once he gets back to me .

 

[PENG]

A well designed amp should have effective over current protection that also protects it against accidental short circuit related damages. It is easy to verify the speaker cable. If you cannot do it visually, then use a multi meter. From what I have read so far, I would bet the amp itself had developed a fault. Without knowing more about the amp, it is hard for anyone to even speculate. As for a new amp, if you like Hegel, that's great because I think they make great nice amps. IMO, once you get to that level, there is little point going for one that has build in DAC, should just go totally separate. In that case, the H30 would be my choice.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

@PENG

Thank you mate

"It is easy to verify the speaker cable."

Ok i have tested the speakers at the posts(before Dynaudio verified speakers are A ok) and theyre fine

I have visually inspected my speaker cables (Gutwire congruence with bananas)

Are you suggesting i also use an ohm meter to check cables ? While plugged into speakers ?

If so what would i look for?

Cheers

 

[PENG]

@PENG

Thank you mate

"It is easy to verify the speaker cable."

Ok i have tested the speakers at the posts(before Dynaudio verified speakers are A ok) and theyre fine

I have visually inspected my speaker cables (Gutwire congruence with bananas)

Are you suggesting i also use an ohm meter to check cables ? While plugged into speakers ?

If so what would i look for?

Cheers

No, if they are short and easy to see with your eyes there is no need. If not, you simply lay the cable on the floor with both ends unplugged just to be safe. Set the multi meter to the resistance range, and measure the resistance between the two conductors at one end, with the other ends separated. The resistance should be infinity, some meters will just show OL. Then take another measurement, with the other ends twisted (shorted) together. This time the meter should read 0, or very close to 0 ohm.

Again, I highly doubt you have a shorted cable, based on the information you have provided so far.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

No, if they are short and easy to see with your eyes there is no need. If not, you simply lay the cable on the floor with both ends unplugged just to be safe. Set the multi meter to the resistance range, and measure the resistance between the two conductors at one end, with the other ends separated. The resistance should be infinity, some meters will just show OL. Then take another measurement, with the other ends twisted (shorted) together. This time the meter should read 0, or very close to 0 ohm.

Again, I highly doubt you have a shorted cable, based on the information you have provided so far.

Thank you

So will the same ohm meter I used on my speakers do ?

Will this meter do ? And set to ohm ?

 

[PENG]

Thank you

So will the same ohm meter I used on my speakers do ?

Will this meter do ? And set to ohm ?

That "smart" meter apparently will automatically set itself to the resistance range when you measure continuity/resistance. I typically don't trust Canadian Tires multi meters, but for resistance measurements I have no concern.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

That "smart" meter apparently will automatically set itself to the resistance range when you measure continuity/resistance. I typically don't trust Canadian Tires multi meters, but for resistance measurements I have no concern.

Thank you

 

[Johnny2Bad]

If (and I'm not saying it is) only one channel had the output transistors fail, that might mean a short was encountered.

If both channels fail, that would tend to support a problem with the amplifier itself. The problem might be in the design / topology or a failure elsewhere (other than the power transistors). Any separate or integrated stereo amplifier should be able to drive a 4 ohm load without issue.

With multichannel amps it might be a problem, although rarely when used only into 2 channels.

Regardless, even if high power into 4 ohms caused a problem of some kind with a 2-channel amp, the amp should shut down (temperature or over-current protection circuit trips) rather than self-destruct, and play normally once cooled down (which could take some time, maybe as much as 30 minutes, maybe only 5 minutes).

It is only into a direct short (which as pointed out earlier, can be extremely fast) where protection circuit may not be quick enough to prevent damage. At least, that's the way it should be with a proper design, given the limits modern parts available to the designer present.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

If (and I'm not saying it is) only one channel had the output transistors fail, that might mean a short was encountered.

If both channels fail, that would tend to support a problem with the amplifier itself. The problem might be in the design / topology or a failure elsewhere (other than the power transistors). Any separate or integrated stereo amplifier should be able to drive a 4 ohm load without issue.

With multichannel amps it might be a problem, although rarely when used only into 2 channels.

Regardless, even if high power into 4 ohms caused a problem of some kind with a 2-channel amp, the amp should shut down (temperature or over-current protection circuit trips) rather than self-destruct, and play normally once cooled down (which could take some time, maybe as much as 30 minutes, maybe only 5 minutes).

It is only into a direct short (which as pointed out earlier, can be extremely fast) where protection circuit may not be quick enough to prevent damage. At least, that's the way it should be with a proper design, given the limits modern parts available to the designer present.

Thanks again

 

[TLS Guy]

This is a strange thread.

We are talking about on unknown expensive amp that is likely junk despite its price.

It is time we knew what amp we are talking about. The chance of the speakers or wiring having anything to do with these two failures seems remote in the extreme to me.

The OP has let this dealer play him for a fool. It is time he took action for redress.

People need to be aware. I have followed this industry for years an the highest percentage of junk occurs at the bottom and top ends of the market.

 

[PENG]

This is a strange thread.

We are talking about on unknown expensive amp that is likely junk despite its price.

It is time we knew what amp we are talking about. The chance of the speakers or wiring having anything to do with these two failures seems remote in the extreme to me.

The OP has let this dealer play him for a fool. It is time he took action for redress.

People need to be aware. I have followed this industry for years an the highest percentage of junk occurs at the bottom and top ends of the market.

As I said before, a well designed amp, especially an expensive one, should be able to protect itself from damge by even a real short cct. It's not hard to do, a good overcurrent and/or current limiting system can react fast enough to protect the power transistors and power supply. So I agree, most likely something went wrong with the amp, or the design may be "junk" as you called it, though I hope that's not the case.

 

[TLS Guy]

As I said before, a well designed amp, especially an expensive one, should be able to protect itself from damge by even a real short cct. It's not hard to do, a good overcurrent and/or current limiting system can react fast enough to protect the power transistors and power supply. So I agree, most likely something went wrong with the amp, or the design may be "junk" as you called it, though I hope that's not the case.

Well according to the first post, this amp has blown up twice!

Optocoupler protection is fast and reliable and causes no sonic degradation whatsoever. I don't believe there was a condition here that should have triggered protection anyway.

I want to know what that POS is and who made it.

 

[PENG]

Well according to the first post, this amp has blown up twice!

Optocoupler protection is fast and reliable and causes no sonic degradation whatsoever. I don't believe there was a condition here that should have triggered protection anyway.

I want to know what that POS is and who made it.

Sorry I didn't read the whole thread. So we do need ti know the specs of the amp, what failed, his sitting distance, average SPL, room size etc., may be he simply overloaded the amp. Depending on the nature of the overload, thermal protection may not beb100% effective. Or, as you said, the amp's junk, but junk for $5,000?

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry I didn't read the whole thread. So we do need ti know the specs of the amp, what failed, his sitting distance, average SPL, room size etc., may be he simply overloaded the amp. Depending on the nature of the overload, thermal protection may not beb100% effective. Or, as you said, the amp's junk, but junk for $5,000?

Yes! There is junk in spades at the top end of the market. People with money are easy prey.

I live in lakes country where there are a large number of expensive lake homes. The really high paid execs are uniformly very stupid. We constantly speculate on what stupid blunder they will make next. They oblige again and again.

 

[MrBoat]

I can't believe, that in this day and age, that any amplifier is built that doesn't have proper protection in place to protect itself against faulty wiring. This has existing for ages now, and has been incorporated by all the top tier manufacturers to ensure that when you buy their $,$$$.00 amplifier that they don't get repairs to deal with because you crossed up some wiring on day one.

What an absolutely insane thing to tell a customer. If you got a dead short, I would ask first "You mean your amplifier doesn't handle a short in the wiring like every other manufacturer does?"

It's not a minor detail, it's of phenomenal importance.

Unfortunately, even if your speakers are fine, there are about 100 ways a pair of exposed wire ends and speaker terminals, and amplifier terminals can short out. Minimal contact at any point would do it with any piece of metal. But, I haven't seen a new amplifier in years which aren't protected from this.

Not to pull you off site, but this was an interesting hit on Google for checking for Bryston dealing with shorts in the connection, and a response from a reputable member saying that there is short protection with the amps, and others chiming in with other manufacturers. Seriously, this isn't acceptable IMO.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=90327.0

This is what I was wondering from the start of this thread. I shorted amp once tripping over the wire, ripping it from it's posts,and it blew a fuse inside the unit. Took the cover off and replaced the fuse. I was starting to wonder if the OP was charged $700 for a blown fuse.

I can usually spot a shyster in a sentence or less, and they can usually spot that I have spotted them. It's then that I can likely unravel the attitude I will be given as a claimant. It happens more often than it doesn't. This story reads like that of a buy here/pay here car lot.

 

[highfigh]

This is what I was wondering from the start of this thread. I shorted amp once tripping over the wire, ripping it from it's posts,and it blew a fuse inside the unit. Took the cover off and replaced the fuse. I was starting to wonder if the OP was charged $700 for a blown fuse.

But it was a REALLY good fuse.

 

[mtrycrafts]

But it was a REALLY good fuse.

But of course. And his retirement fun was needing to be payed for.