Marantz Sr7011 volume almost all the way up

[PENG]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum and i'm praying for some help .

I just bough a Marantz SR7011 to replace my old Nad7225pe and I found myself needing to crank the volume way more than i thought.

Actually , 7 speakers are connected.

Energy Rc-70 2x
Energy C-C1 1x
Energy C-3's 4x as surround .

I did the audyssey auto setup multiple time .


Even while listening at music in stereo mode , I need to crank this puppy in the 70 mark ( on a 0-98 scale ) to have a great loud session
.
While watching movie , i'm 85ish to have a great loud sound to feel it. To be honest , I could use some more but i'm almost afraid to crank it more since im almost all the way up alrealy.

What's bugging me is.. why am I needed to crank that much ? I though 125WPC stereo was plenty of meat to feed my speakers... even if there may be 2/3 of that remaining using dolby..

Thanks for you help !

It still depends a lot on how far you sit and your room dimensions too, even after you have everything set up correctly.

 

[Pogre]

I will do the SPL test for sure to clear that out. I do like it very loud .. but I was not aware it may be THAT loud.

For the night mode , i will double check for sure and the Audyssey dynamic OFF and Audyssey Dynamic EQ too !

For the mute part KEW , i did myself triple checked that out to be sure haha

Thanks all for help , keep posting if you have more ideas!

I don't know if I'm reading your post correctly, but you want dynamic eq on and dynamic volume off. I also think a sub or 2 would help your situation a lot. How big is your room and how far do you sit from the speakers?

 

[KEW]

If he ran Audyssey correctly he should get 85 dB at the main mic position with volume set to 0 in relative scale or 81 in absolute scale, not 105 dB.

As always, thanks for the correction!

In that case, if he is looking for the "full blown HT experience" is 85dB that loud?
I guess it is after the dynamic potential for another 20dB is added in?
Is that a fair way to look at it?
I know -20 to -15 is about as loud as I typically run mine.

 

[KEW]

I don't know if I'm reading your post correctly, but you want dynamic eq on and dynamic volume off. I also think a sub or 2 would help your situation a lot. How big is your room and how far do you sit from the speakers?

Thanks!
I was wondering the same!

 

[lovinthehd]

1 absolute interval = 1 dB is valid because exactly 0 is the lower limit and exactly 99 was picked as the upper limit. If absolute scale is any different, 0 to 25, -50 to 0, -603 to 1111, etc. that equivalency to does not work.

Whut?

PS Who's off their meds now (or on as the case may be)

 

[KEW]

I did the audyssey auto setup multiple time .
While watching movie , i'm 85ish to have a great loud sound to feel it. To be honest , I could use some more but i'm almost afraid to crank it more since im almost all the way up alrealy.
What's bugging me is.. why am I needed to crank that much ? I though 125WPC stereo was plenty of meat to feed my speakers...

If he ran Audyssey correctly he should get 85 dB at the main mic position with volume set to 0 in relative scale.

@doum121
As pointed out by Peng's post, once you run Audyssey, the setting your volume reads has little to do with how much of the amp's power remains. You could use an external 500WPC amp along with some very sensitive speakers and once you ran Audyssey, your volume knob should still provide an SPL of 85dB at 0 (relative) even though that might only require 10 watts!

I assume the NAD 7225PE did not have roomEQ or set the volume to reference a specific SPL (which came with THX standards for home audio in HT systems...I believe). So if you turned the NAD all of the way up, it would indeed be wide open, and your concern would be legit!

Another thing to consider; at 25WPC you may have been pushing your NAD into clipping distortion. This is not a pleasant sound and it often can be misconstrued as being too loud when you do this. With the added power of the Marantz, you might now be playing the music louder than you ever did before, but, because it is clean, you don't register it as being so loud as it was when you used to listen at the edge of distortion. We often have people who, once they get their system sorted out, are amazed at how they can just keep increasing the volume without offending their ears!

 

[PENG]

As always, thanks for the correction!

In that case, if he is looking for the "full blown HT experience" is 85dB that loud?
I guess it is after the dynamic potential for another 20dB is added in?
Is that a fair way to look at it?
I know -20 to -15 is about as loud as I typically run mine.

I also typically have the volume at -20 for movies, and up to -15 occasionally just for fun. The THX 85 dB average with peaks up to 105 dB is much too loud for me. At -20, I would still be getting around 70 dB average because in addition to having DEQ on, I also have the sub level boosted by 2 dB post Audyssey.

 

[agarwalro]

Whut?

PS Who's off their meds now (or on as the case may be)

On Denon receivers both, absolute scale and relative scale, have 100 divisions. So, one can make a gross equivalency that, Master Volume change of 1 unit on the absolute scale equals 1dBSPL. A logic leap, that the scales are equivalent other than manner of numbering (0 to 99 vs. -80 to 18), is valid only in this scenario.

Had the absolute scale been 0 to 25, a volume change of 1 unit would be 4dB.
Had the absolute scale been -50 to 0, a volume change of 1 unit it would be 2dB.
Had the absolute scale been -603 to 1111, a volume change of 1 unit it would be 0.06dB.

On the absolute scale, volume readouts pertain to that system only and sensible in making relative assessments intrinsic to that system. Speakers are highly different in efficiency and get placed at varying distance from listener. Therefore, 75 dBSPL will be a different absolute scale number on different systems. Indeed, even for the same system in different rooms. Making a generalization that, "on most systems absolute volume of 80-82 is reference level" shows a lack of understanding the fundamentals.

 

[lovinthehd]

On Denon receivers both, absolute scale and relative scale, have 100 divisions. So, one can make a gross equivalency that, Master Volume change of 1 unit on the absolute scale equals 1dBSPL. A logic leap, that the scales are equivalent other than manner of numbering (0 to 99 vs. -80 to 18), is valid only in this scenario.

Had the absolute scale been 0 to 25, a volume change of 1 unit would be 4dB.
Had the absolute scale been -50 to 0, a volume change of 1 unit it would be 2dB.
Had the absolute scale been -603 to 1111, a volume change of 1 unit it would be 0.06dB.

On the absolute scale, volume readouts pertain to that system only and sensible in making relative assessments intrinsic to that system. Speakers are highly different in efficiency and get placed at varying distance from listener. Therefore, 75 dBSPL will be a different absolute scale number on different systems. Indeed, even for the same system in different rooms. Making a generalization that, "on most systems absolute volume of 80-82 is reference level" shows a lack of understanding the fundamentals.

Good grief.

 

[doum121]

General info for my room size , speakers level and distances.

Front L 8.4Ft -3.0dB
Front R 8.4Ft -3.0dB
Center 7.8Ft -3.5dB
Surround L 5Ft -4dB
Surround R 5 Ft -4dB
Surr Back L 7Ft -3dB
Surr Back R 7 ft -3dB

Room size 12x14 with 8ft ceiling.

As '' reference '' I did unplugged everything but 2 channel on the marantz , re-ran the Audyssey . For a loud music session in stereo i was hitting -15dB on the Marantz.

I re-plugged the old Nad7225pe. Connected the same two speaker , played the same song of course.. found myself at half the knob volume .

I know you did mention that volume scale from a receiver to another may not be a good reference but.. At this volume the Nad was not distorting but I may suspect the other remaining half of the knob unusable or either making me deaf.

I'm still stuck in the <<What's going on spiral>> actually.

( And it the dynamic eq was on and dynamic volume off.)

Thank you for still posting and trying to help , I do appreciate !

 

[lovinthehd]

No, you cannot compare volume levels meaningfully that way.

 

[Mitchibo]

This makes zero sense. Are you lacking volume?

 

[doum121]

This makes zero sense. Are you lacking volume?

Yes, to achieve a desired volume I need to go past the reference '' 0dB '' level on the amp.

Edit : The '' desired volume '' is either a really good Home theater experience or a Loud music session but nothing unrealistic.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Just find “11”. Turn it to that.

 

[Mitchibo]

Lemmerhirt is right. Stop thinking about it and just turn it up. You won’t hurt anything. If you don’t hear distortion then you’ll be fine. Naturally you’ll need to ventilate the AVR. If you need more cowbell get an amp. I seriously doubt there is anything wrong with the Marantz. It’s just a different scale.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, to achieve a desired volume I need to go past the reference '' 0dB '' level on the amp.

Edit : The '' desired volume '' is either a really good Home theater experience or a Loud music session but nothing unrealistic.

Could be partly gain structure differences between the NAD & Marantz for the input you're using, too. Sounds like your desired volume is quite high, tho. Check it with an spl meter....

 

[KEW]

I would guess if you did a factory reset, the volume would behave the way you want it to until you run the setup program again.

 

[doum121]

I just dis the SPL test. Average while watching an action movie , volume at 0 db reference , 85-86ish. So you were right about the audyssey 85db at 0!(not that i had doubt )

Now knowing everything is fine and I may like it on the deaf side.. Am I better going with a marantz slim receiver instead of the SR7011 and look for a power amp later to have more horses? Actually the room is maybe a tad smaller that i’d like and i will upgrade in size later. If i’m already on the + of the volume scale, will few cubic feet more will affect that much ?

As always, thanks for the help and advice.

 

[KEW]

I just dis the SPL test. Average while watching an action movie , volume at 0 db reference , 85-86ish. So you were right about the audyssey 85db at 0!(not that i had doubt )

Now knowing everything is fine and I may like it on the deaf side.. Am I better going with a marantz slim receiver instead of the SR7011 and look for a power amp later to have more horses? Actually the room is maybe a tad smaller that i’d like and i will upgrade in size later. If i’m already on the + of the volume scale, will few cubic feet more will affect that much ?

As always, thanks for the help and advice.

You are not getting the point here. The volume association with SPL has nothing to do with how much power the amp has!

The reason for using the SPL meter was to verify that your AVR is working properly and setting/calibrating your volume control to what has become the preferred industry standard.

It is this calibration process that led me to the following statement in post #26:

...once you run Audyssey, the setting your volume reads has little to do with how much of the amp's power remains. You could use an external 500WPC amp along with some very sensitive speakers and once you ran Audyssey, your volume knob should still provide an SPL of 85dB at 0 (relative) even though that might only require 10 watts!

So in the above scenario, you will get the same SPL level out of 0dB even though you are only using 10 of the 500watts available. IOW, You would get the exact same behavior out of your system as you have now.

Unless you are hearing distortion and/or your AVR is going into protect mode, there is no reason to believe you are challenging your AVR's limits.
As a matter of fact, knowing that your 25WPC Nad provided the same level with the knob at 12 o'clock is very good assurance that the much more powerful Marantz in not coming close to its limits!
Changing your gear won't change anything, you need to change your understanding of how the volume control works in a modern AVR!!!

 

[KEW]

An alternative:
Just go into your "setup menu" and select "INPUTS">"SOURCE LEVEL" and change both your "ANALOG INPUTS" and "DIGITAL INPUTS" to +12.
This will allow your volume to read -12 when you are getting the 85dB SPL.

PS: There is no good reason not to just leave the Input levels as they are and just turn the volume up. The control will top out at +18dB, but that is 103dB. If you follow the instructions above, +18dB setting would equate to 115dB.

PS2: My directions above are based on the Denon 4520. Your Marantz is similar, but I'm not certain the menus are labeled exactly the same.