M. Fremer - My New Pet Hate (not really, just a rant)

[killdozzer]

I'll try to keep this civilised and up to gentleman's standards as much as I can. I'm not name naming...

I saw a video interview of this guy... Well not even, it's a vlog, the guy stepped in front of the camera and said what he wanted to say. He is not misrepresented. No one did him any injustice. It is not about being taken out of context.

The guy is presenting his system. He talks a lot about the things I don't agree with, but it doesn't matter, I'm use to it.

Everything affects the sound in his opinion, the rack affects the sound (which is not so far off for the TT's), he goes on and on about power conditioners, vinyl is better, cables are 30k but those are miracle cables...

He also tries to present himself as being a man of codex and honour. Like; he always says when something is not good and such. He goes out of his way to try and explain where he gets the money for all that equipment (30k speaker cables, 30k tone arm etc.). He says it's nobody's business, but I'd beg to differ. If his readers suspect he gets paid to promote all that unnecessary equipment then of course it's readers business. He tries to convince the audience he made the money with his DVD on setting the TT's. BTW he has more records than could ever be bought with income from a DVD (he sold 17 000 copies - a dollar a copy and not enough for one single pair of speaker cables).

So it's a mess and he looks bad in his own vlog with an unlimited possibilities of taping over. Still, he looks very bad.

In the end, after all his efforts to look funny and human, he, word by word, told the story where he took advantage of a incapacitated man. He said he bought some very rare records for something like a buck and when he came another day he saw the owner on crutches drooling and he saw that his wife is selling the records for peanuts and the guy is mumbling in despair.

After that he said he still has the very valuable record of Billy Holiday, but couldn't remember the name (and it was the most famous one - Lady In Satin). After he saw the owner had a stroke he didn't return the record.

The guy just walks over this fact and moves on. Without blinking an eyelash. He saw nothing, NOTHING wrong with any of what he said. My jaw dropped.

And he expects me to believe he has codex and honour. He thinks I would see him as someone who would rather tell me not to buy a power conditioner of few thousand buck than take the money for promoting it!?!?

 

[Steve81]

He goes out of his way to try and explain where he gets the money for all that equipment (30k speaker cables, 30k tone arm etc.). He says it's nobody's business, but I'd beg to differ. If his readers suspect he gets paid to promote all that unnecessary equipment then of course it's readers business.

Haven't seen the video (not sure I really want to from what you're saying), but I don't know why he'd bother on that part. Accommodation pricing for reviewers isn't exactly a state secret. While one can argue the ethics thereof, there are limits as to how much sway it can hold over a reviewer. When you get down to it, the only products I'd want to own are the ones I'd give a favorable review to anyway. I don't want garbage equipment, or BS like magic cables and pet rocks, regardless of the discount offered.

 

[panteragstk]

That all just sounds terrible. Some people overshare. He sounds like one of them...

 

[shadyJ]

Haven't seen the video (not sure I really want to from what you're saying), but I don't know why he'd bother on that part. Accommodation pricing for reviewers isn't exactly a state secret. While one can argue the ethics thereof, there are limits as to how much sway it can hold over a reviewer. When you get down to it, the only products I'd want to own are the ones I'd give a favorable review to anyway. I don't want garbage equipment, or BS like magic cables and pet rocks, regardless of the discount offered.

If the reviewer is simply given the equipment or offered the equipment at massive discount, then the reviewer can turn around and sell that equipment and capitalize on handing out good reviews and nice blurbs. If the reviewer doesn't want to be seen connected to that kind of scam, he can have an arrangement with a dealer to have the dealer sell it on his behalf. I am not saying that is what is going on there, but that isn't unthinkable.

Another thing to keep in mind that for some of this equipment, the MSRP is huge, because it has a huge markup on it. How much do you think it costs to manufacture one of these overpriced cables? I will wager not much. Then what is the markup? 10,000%? 20,000%? A lot of luxury items can have gigantic markups in their MSRPs. So it wouldn't be as costly as one might think for a manufacturer to just offer a reviewer a big discount on these types of items.

 

[panteragstk]

If the reviewer is simply given the equipment or offered the equipment at massive discount, then the reviewer can turn around and sell that equipment and capitalize on handing out good reviews and nice blurbs. If the reviewer doesn't want to be seen connected to that kind of scam, he can have an arrangement with a dealer to have the dealer sell it on his behalf. I am not saying that is what is going on there, but that isn't unthinkable.

Another thing to keep in mind that for some of this equipment, the MSRP is huge, because it has a huge markup on it. How much do you think it costs to manufacture one of these overpriced cables? I will wager not much. Then what is the markup? 10,000%? 20,000%? A lot of luxury items can have gigantic markups in their MSRPs. So it wouldn't be as costly as one might think for a manufacturer to just offer a reviewer a big discount on these types of items.

Don't reviewers get demo units to review as well? Even then I've heard of the "option to buy" which would be at the accommodation or cost price I would think.

To me that skews things (the purchase price being low) as how can this reviewer say that "my equipment costs this much (which is bragging) and I feel that it's totally worth it" when they didn't pay the insane MSRP? The logic or "it's good cause it's expensive" has always been lost on me.

Am I off base?

 

[shadyJ]

Don't reviewers get demo units to review as well? Even then I've heard of the "option to buy" which would be at the accommodation or cost price I would think.

To me that skews things (the purchase price being low) as how can this reviewer say that "my equipment costs this much (which is bragging) and I feel that it's totally worth it" when they didn't pay the insane MSRP? The logic or "it's good cause it's expensive" has always been lost on me.

Am I off base?

I guess some reviewers would get demo units. The reason is if the reviewers send the units back to the manufacturers, the review units are 'used' and have to be sold as such, so they are bascially 'B-stock' after a reviewer has used them. Since demo units are already B-stock, manufacturers do not take that hit if a reviewer uses the demo product. If the review unit is offered to the reviewer at a standard B-stock price at the end of the review period, I don't see that as 'payola' because that is what that unit has to be sold as anyway. Further markdowns from that though, things start to get sketchy. I can understand it from the manufacturers point of view, because what better recommendation can a reviewer give than to say "I loved it so much I bought it" so of course manufacturers are willing to give huge discounts to reviewers, but one thing that won't be said publicly is what price did the reviewer pay for the reviewed item.

 

[Mikado463]

Wow........I too watched the video and while I agree, him making mock of the stroke victim was tasteless you failed to point out one of his dumbest blunders ....... his reference to components being all hooked up to one source (line) ??

Regardless, in the world of analog he is pretty much revered by a lot of folks and since I only met the man once (RMAF 2009) and he was cordial to me I don't have much of a gripe, I suspect you have an ounce or two of jealousy going on perhaps ????

 

[Steve81]

If the reviewer is simply given the equipment or offered the equipment at massive discount, then the reviewer can turn around and sell that equipment and capitalize on handing out good reviews and nice blurbs. If the reviewer doesn't want to be seen connected to that kind of scam, he can have an arrangement with a dealer to have the dealer sell it on his behalf. I am not saying that is what is going on there, but that isn't unthinkable.

Another thing to keep in mind that for some of this equipment, the MSRP is huge, because it has a huge markup on it. How much do you think it costs to manufacture one of these overpriced cables? I will wager not much. Then what is the markup? 10,000%? 20,000%? A lot of luxury items can have gigantic markups in their MSRPs. So it wouldn't be as costly as one might think for a manufacturer to just offer a reviewer a big discount on these types of items.

In the case of Mrs. Fremer's high dollar cables and tone arms, I suspect it's mostly a matter of the latter.

As for the think-ability of the former, I'm not sure. Based on my experiences, the discounts available are indeed quite good, but not so much that you could make a hefty profit selling the occasional piece of gear on the used market (directly or via a dealer). Given the legwork involved, having cash tied up for an unknown period of time sitting on "stock", not to mention the damage to ones reputation if found out, it doesn't seem worthwhile.

Besides, the whole scheme kind of removes the incentive you mentioned for manufacturers to give such discounts in the first place: the cachet of having a reviewer own your gear. It only works if that gear remains a part of the reviewers reference system for a meaningful period of time. That doesn't happen if Fremer or others immediately turn around and sell 95% of the gear they buy on discount.

 

[killdozzer]

Wow........I too watched the video and while I agree, him making mock of the stroke victim was tasteless you failed to point out one of his dumbest blunders ....... his reference to components being all hooked up to one source (line) ??

Regardless, in the world of analog he is pretty much revered by a lot of folks and since I only met the man once (RMAF 2009) and he was cordial to me I don't have much of a gripe, I suspect you have an ounce or two of jealousy going on perhaps ????

Really not. I guess if I waited for an hour or two, maybe I wouldn't post this. When I saw this over half an hour long video, I got contaminated a bit and had to react.

That man has nothing that would make me envious.

But as I said; after he said what he wanted in his video, he didn't earn an ounce of my trust, in fact he made me dislike him and I've never even met the guy.

I think he simply said more than it would be considered wise. If I was him I'd take down this video.

 

[highfigh]

I watched a couple of his turntable videos and he struck me as someone who says he likes to sniff unicorn farts.

 

[Mikado463]

I watched a couple of his turntable videos and he struck me as someone who says he likes to sniff unicorn farts.

LMAO !!!

 

[slipperybidness]

When I tried to watch his TT DVD.....I fell asleep on the couch

 

[panteragstk]

I watched a couple of his turntable videos and he struck me as someone who says he likes to sniff unicorn farts.

 

[lovinthehd]

Fremer is the biggest turd in the audio biz I can think of. I don't need the video at all in any case, it would just piss me off further.

 

[killdozzer]

Fremer is the biggest turd in the audio biz I can think of. I don't need the video at all in any case, it would just piss me off further.

It was my 1st encounter. Pissed me as well. He says it takes two guys one week to make just one of those 30k cables...

...well then, I'm sure you'll agree, they must be worth it! It's one week, man!!

 

[haraldo]

Everyone has a right of opinion, also Fremer, and if you disagree, I still think it's respect-less to call people turds, no matter their opinion on things. But you have a right to call people whatever you want, as long as you don't call me an idiot.

I think, the real beauty of this hobby, what we are doing is not to make an expensive system that blows you away... But to make an inexpensive system that blows you a way and give you insane musical experiences.

I can't help it to think that when I go to these shops and listen to extremely high price systems it's all about resolution, creating a sense of "fake" imaging, things that have nothing to do with the music how it sound live.
I have auditioned systems at cost of over $600.000, and it does not relate well to me.....

I have been to a concert in Musikverein in Vienna, where they do make the new year concerts, it is said to be one of the best concert halls anywhere. There is no imaging, you have no idea about localization of instruments.... it's all over the place, but the musical experience is beyond imagination. It can make a grown-up man get tears in his eyes, at least it did with me, it's insane....

That's what it should be about, how does it make you feel, is it a great experience. Most of this hi-end stuff is plain fu$#%$ rubbish. That fake imaging and resolution that you don't get in real life.....

It's only one thing guys: Sit down and enjoy the music.

If I had Alexia or the new WAMM speakers I would be in a bad mood just looking at them, how ugly they are
But it's just my opinion.

 

[Mikado463]

Fremer is the biggest turd in the audio biz I can think of. I don't need the video at all in any case, it would just piss me off further.

lovin, what did he do to piss you off ? or in your case, 'crap on your parade' !

 

[lovinthehd]

lovin, what did he do to piss you off ? or in your case, 'crap on your parade' !

His selling of the idiotic cabling to start....and that would just be a start...he's may have some audio chops but is just a shill in the larger picture...just another audio turd.

 

[Mikado463]

His selling of the idiotic cabling to start....and that would just be a start...he's may have some audio chops but is just a shill in the larger picture...just another audio turd.

whatever and while I agree to 'a point' chances are he's forgotten more about vinyl more than you (or I) will ever know. You come across as someone with a real chip on you shoulders ....... were you abused as a child ?

There is a certain faction on this board that 'thinks' they know it all ......trust me, none of us do !!

 

[haraldo]

His selling of the idiotic cabling to start....and that would just be a start...he's may have some audio chops but is just a shill in the larger picture...just another audio turd.

I thought the US was a country of free speech where everyone has the right to state their opinion....

If it works for him, what is the problem?