Nice Pair of Monitors, DAC for Music Listening at Work

[<eargiant]

A long time ago when I was much into wasting money, I bought things like $2K DAC, $4K CD players, and $1K speaker cable.

The $22K Revel, $18K KEF, $15K B&W, $10K Linkwitz speakers, etc. came later, but that's another story.

Then one day, I compared the $2K DAC vs my $500 Sony DVD player (playing CD) and found out that it sounded the same.

Then later I took it further and compared the $2K DAC vs $100 Sony DVD player (playing CD) and $400 AVR and found that it sounded the same.

Then I read the Audio Critic and it all made perfect sense.

Don't waste your money on external DAC. Spend your money on speakers.

So I sold my $2K DAC, $4K CD player, and $1K speaker cables.

Do we even know what PC the OP is using???

This has nothing to do with high-end this or that. The simple fact is that many PCs had horrible and noisy built in DACs. I speak from experience. If the OPs current built in DAC is inferior, used M-Audio sound cards are a great option at very, very low cost. I've had the M-Audio 192 and even the older M-Audio 2496 and they were both better than the built in DAC on my older Dell. Great values.

As I said, the OP can just order the Massdrop JBLs and be done with it. We're talking $279 and they will fit his needs perfectly!

 

[<eargiant]

Wow AcuDefTechGuy, how old are you? I disagreed with your post and you actually just went back and disagreed with 33 of my old posts?

Unbelievably childish!

 

[slipperybidness]

Do we even know what PC the OP is using???

This has nothing to do with high-end this or that. The simple fact is that many PCs had horrible and noisy built in DACs. I speak from experience. If the OPs current built in DAC is inferior, used M-Audio sound cards are a great option at very, very low cost. I've had the M-Audio 192 and even the older M-Audio 2496 and they were both better than the built in DAC on my older Dell. Great values.

As I said, the OP can just order the Massdrop JBLs and be done with it. We're talking $279!

Agreed on built in audio....in particular, I used to have an old Dell that was horrendous!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The simple fact is that many PCs had horrible and noisy built in DACs.

Do you know that AVR have GREAT sound DAC inside them?

Really, they do!

A $500 AVR actually have great sounding DAC that sound as good as $2K DAC. It's amazing.

All you have to do is BITSTREAM the sound from the PC to the AVR.

A simple HDMI cable from the PC to the AVR. If the PC is a little old, get a $20 AMD HDMI graphics card.

 

[<eargiant]

Do you know that AVR have GREAT sound DAC inside them?

Really, they do!

A $500 AVR actually have great sounding DAC that sound as good as $2K DAC. It's amazing.

All you have to do is BITSTREAM the sound from the PC to the AVR.

A simple HDMI cable from the PC to the AVR. If the PC is a little old, get a $20 AMD HDMI graphics card.

That's not the point. You are not listening to the OPs needs. I was NOT talking about the DAC in the AVR, just the fact that he doesn't need an AVR period. The answer to every question is not "AVR".

Your solution over-complicates things, does not meet his needs and is more expensive than it need be. Not to mention that he'd still have to select speakers and not all passive bookshelfs are designed for very near-field use. In addition, at this point we don't even know if he needs a DAC.

This is the way to go:

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

1) Your solution over-complicates.... is more expensive...

2) ...not all passive bookshelfs are designed for very near-field use.

3) In addition, at this point we don't even know if he needs a DAC.

1. $400 DAC + powered speakers can be more complicated and more expensive than $400 AVR + passive speakers

2. It's doesn't matter if it's powered or passive, there are many passive bookshelf speakers that would sound great for near-field. There are not as many options for powered bookshelf speakers.

3) He doesn't NEED any external DAC at all because all external DACs that cost more than the AVR is a 100% waste of time and money and don't sound any better than the DAC inside any $400 AVR.

But if he wants/desires an external DAC, that's fine too. There is no right or wrong here, just different options.

1 option is to go with DAC + powered speakers. 1 option is to go with a slim AVR + passive speakers. Either way is fine.

BTW, I've also used $300 Sound Card. I've built over 12 PCs. I've used just about everything at one point or another. I preferred the sound quality from the AVR (Bitstream from PC to AVR) over the sound card.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

Here is the motherboard that I have now.

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/X99A/

I believe it has
Audio Realtek® ALC1150 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC featuring Crystal Sound 2
– Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
– High quality 112 dB SNR stereo playback output (Line-out at rear) and 104 dB SNR stereo playback input (Line-in)
– High-fidelity audio OP AMP

Optical is bitstream

Is there any benefit to setting my digital outs on my Blu Ray Player to Bitstream + Optical out to my preamplifier, instead of HDMI to preamp as I have been doing with regards to watching blu ray movies? When I just use HDMI, is that essentially the same thing?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is there any benefit to setting my digital outs on my Blu Ray Player to Bitstream + Optical out to my preamplifier, instead of HDMI to preamp as I have been doing with regards to watching blu ray movies? When I just use HDMI, is that essentially the same thing?

HDMI is more robust. So I would go with HDMI.

The only time I would use Optical/Coaxial Digital is when I cannot use HDMI.

For example, you have to use HDMI for TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, ATMOS, DTS:X.

But for 2Ch or regular 5.1 DD or DTS, Optical bitstream should sound just as good.

 

[<eargiant]

1. $400 DAC + powered speakers can be more complicated and more expensive than $400 AVR + passive speakers

2. It's doesn't matter if it's powered or passive, there are many passive bookshelf speakers that would sound great for near-field. There are not as many options for powered bookshelf speakers.

3) He doesn't NEED any external DAC at all because all external DACs that cost more than the AVR is a 100% waste of time and money and don't sound any better than the DAC inside any $400 AVR.

But if he wants/desires an external DAC, that's fine too. There is no right or wrong here, just different options.

1 option is to go with DAC + powered speakers. 1 option is to go with a slim AVR + passive speakers. Either way is fine.

BTW, I've also used $300 Sound Card. I've built over 12 PCs. I've used just about everything at one point or another. I preferred the sound quality from the AVR (Bitstream from PC to AVR) over the sound card.

1) Was I talking about a $400 DAC? NO!- I was talking about $279 active speakers and POSSIBLY adding a $50 used soundcard IF needed. SO $279 OR $329 ALL-IN IS STILL LESS EXPENSIVE THAN YOUR $400 AVR (PLUS the cost of speakers)!!!

2) No kidding? But you will still be at $400 PLUS the cost of the speakers and have an unnecessary AVR sitting on your desk and no guarantee that the passives will sound better than the active JBLs.

3) I never recommended an external DAC to him. The M-Audio's are internal and might be usable in his computer if his built-in soundcard one of the "horrendous" ones.

Again, we don't know if he needs an DAC so why does he need your $400 AVR? Your solution seems to be more about pushing the AVR rather than solving a need.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

1) Was I talking about a $400 DAC? NO!- I was talking about $279 active speakers and POSSIBLY adding a $50 used soundcard IF needed. SO $279 OR $329 ALL-IN IS STILL LESS EXPENSIVE THAN YOUR $400 AVR (PLUS the cost of speakers)!!!

2) No kidding? But you will still be at $400 PLUS the cost of the speakers and have an unnecessary AVR sitting on your desk and no guarantee that the passives will sound better than the active JBLs.

3) I never recommended an external DAC to him. The M-Audio's are internal and might be usable in his computer if his built-in soundcard one of the "horrendous" ones.

Again, we don't know if he needs an DAC so why does he need your $400 AVR? Your solution seems to be more about pushing the AVR rather than solving a need.

I'm saying the SOUND QUALITY of even the $300 ASUS BRAND NEW Sound Card I used a few years ago didn't sound that great to my ears.

But it could just be me.

It's possible that going straight from the PC/Sound Card to the speakers sound great to you and others.

But in my experience, it didn't sound as good. And we're talking about a brand new $300 ASUS sound card.

 

[<eargiant]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Did ASUS soundcards come up in this discussion? Have you ever listened to an M-Audio 2496 or 192?

I'm the first to say that internal soundcards are not the end-all but I wouldn't jump right to an AVR to better them. At $200 (and often less), this will sound much better than the ASUS soundcard.

https://www.amazon.com/Meridian-SP3333ZZ-Explorer2-USB-DAC/dp/B00Q6VQGS2



Since the OP does not already have passive speakers, for his application I would still go with active speakers and IF he needs a DAC go with an inexpensive used M-Audio soundcard or an inexpensive (new or used) external DAC over an AVR with passive speakers on his desk any day of the week.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Did ASUS soundcards come up in this discussion? Have you ever listened to an M-Audio 2496 or 192?

I'm the first to say that internal soundcards are not the end-all but I wouldn't jump right to an AVR to better them. At $200 (and often less), this will sound much better than the ASUS soundcard.

https://www.amazon.com/Meridian-SP3333ZZ-Explorer2-USB-DAC/dp/B00Q6VQGS2

Since the OP does not already have passive speakers, for his application I would still go with active speakers and IF he needs a DAC go with an inexpensive used M-Audio soundcard or an inexpensive (new or used) external DAC over an AVR with passive speakers on his desk any day of the week.

Yes. I have tried the M-Audio 2496 and the Meridian USB DAC. The M-Audio and Meridian don't sound any better than the ASUS sound card. If you are going to do that, you might as well just use the sound from the Motherboard/PC because it sounds the same.

 

[<eargiant]

Yes. I have tried the M-Audio 2496 and the Meridian USB DAC. The M-Audio and Meridian don't sound any better than the ASUS sound card. If you are going to do that, you might as well just use the sound from the Motherboard/PC because it sounds the same.

Yet the DAC in the AVR sounds better right!!!

 

[charmerci]

For the DAC you can use a Meridian Explorer 2 DAC for $200.

 

[killdozzer]

I don't believe Meridian deserves to be recommended. It is overpriced.

 

[<eargiant]

Another great DAC option @ $149 (if you need it) to go with the JBL 3XX's @ $279.

Who can argue with that?

https://www.jdslabs.com/products/46/standalone-odac/

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-jbl-lsr30x-powered-speakers



Dac version w/RCA out is $169

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Another great DAC option @ $149 (if you need it) to go with the JBL 3XX's @ $279.

Who can argue with that?

https://www.jdslabs.com/products/46/standalone-odac/

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-jbl-lsr30x-powered-speakers



Dac version w/RCA out is $169

I'd argue with that. Odac based on nwavguy is great DAC and I'm already biased towards pro jbl monitors, however Vanatoo speakers I'd mentioned earlier include DAC as well as sub out. Again, simpler is better. Transparent one provide great sound and doesn't take lots of space on table. Simple to connect too.

 

[<eargiant]

I'd argue with that. Odac based on nwavguy is great DAC and I'm already biased towards pro jbl monitors, however Vanatoo speakers I'd mentioned earlier include DAC as well as sub out. Again, simpler is better. Transparent one provide great sound and doesn't take lots of space on table. Simple to connect too.

You're not really arguing, just offering a different opinion which seems like a good one and it meets the OPs requirements.

I haven't heard the Vanatoo speakers so I can't comment on them at all or the DAC inside. They were at the NY Audio Show a couple of years ago but unfortunately I didn't go into the room. It looks like the One's are $499.

Personally, I don't see having the tiny ODAC external of the speakers as less simple. I see it as offering the OP more flexibility, especially since it's such a decent DAC. He can try it with different active speakers and even try it out with his amplifier and passives at home if he chooses. He can even opt for an O2+ODAC and that would also give him the option of listening to headphones or the JBLs at work.

https://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/objective2-odac-combo-revb/

I also think the JBL 3XX's look really nice in the gloss finish that was done for Massdrop.

Either of our suggestions would satisfy the OPs needs.

 

[OscarJr]

For speakers, I'm sure those Adam Audio speakers will sound great with the AMT tweeters. I run Legacy Audio Studio HD's in my office right now, and they sound killer. In fact, I know of two sets of these for about $1000 if you're interested. They're not powered though, but they are 93 dB/1W-1m efficient (measured)! Oh and they can get freakin' LOUD too!

For the DACs, it might sound different, it might not. I got a hold of a Resonessence Labs Concero HD for $350 so I couldn't pass it up. I have yet to have the time to do an extensive A/B test, but it can be no worse than my laptop's built-in DAC.

One thing I do recommend highly is using DSP/Parametric EQ to flatten out the in-room response. The best speaker in the world, past-present-and-in-the-future are no match for the room they will be placed in. Get the frequency response nice and flat after killing echoes/reflections and your ears will thank you.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

One thing I do recommend highly is using DSP/Parametric EQ to flatten out the in-room response. The best speaker in the world, past-present-and-in-the-future are no match for the room it will be placed in. Get the frequency response nice and flat after killing echoes/reflections and your ears will thank you.

I would say do the Room EQ. But compare them and use whichever sounds the best. Not everyone likes a "FLAT" in-room response.