Turntable sound and wires issue

[Imanuel]

Hi all,

I hope someone can help me with this issue:

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V483 (audio only input)
Turntable: Sony PS-LX300USB (built in preamp)

The Turntable RCA wire is short, so it doesn't get into the Receiver inputs. I bought a female-male RCA cable and managed to connect the turntable to the receiver.

When I tested with my LPs, the sound was very low. I had to increase the volume quite a lot to experience at a normal sound. This of course created another issue, when I switched back to either the TV or PS4. The sound was incredibly loud.

I've put down some causes and solutions, so please pitch in and see what could be the best one:

1. Missing external preamp. Solution: Buy a preamp

2. Long wiring, due to the extra connection. Solution: Buy a preamp

3. Another cause. Solution?

thanks

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi all,

I hope someone can help me with this issue:

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V483 (audio only input)
Turntable: Sony PS-LX300USB (built in preamp)

The Turntable RCA wire is short, so it doesn't get into the Receiver inputs. I bought a female-male RCA cable and managed to connect the turntable to the receiver.

When I tested with my LPs, the sound was very low. I had to increase the volume quite a lot to experience at a normal sound. This of course created another issue, when I switched back to either the TV or PS4. The sound was incredibly loud.

I've put down some causes and solutions, so please pitch in and see what could be the best one:

1. Missing external preamp. Solution: Buy a preamp

2. Long wiring, due to the extra connection. Solution: Buy a preamp

3. Another cause. Solution?

thanks

Unfortunately there are not enough published specs on your turntable to help.

I assume you are using the internal preamp. If so I doubt that the increase in cable length is an issue, unless over 25 ft or so.

The issue is either that the output from the cartridge is too low, or that the built in preamp has insufficient gain or both

It might help if you did get a phono preamp and switch off the internal preamp of the turntable.

If that does not work you might need a higher output cartridge.

Lastly turntables often have a lower output than other sources.

Unfortunately the gain structure of phone preamps is seldom published, so it ends up trial and error, and any advice given may not solve your problem.

 

[class a]

Looking at the back of your receiver I didn't see a phono input. Unless your TT has a built in phono. You'll have to get an external phono.

 

[Imanuel]

Thanks for the anwer TLS guy. Sorry, I'm adding below the specs for the turntable that I took from their website. So basically, I either try to switch off the built-in amp (I guess by switching of the phono) and connect an external amp or get the higher output cartridge.

STYLUS FORCE (TRACKING FORCE)
fix (3.5 ± 0.03 oz)
MM/MC PICKUP
MM
PICKUP TYPE (STYLUS)
N-6516-1
PHONO EQ ON/OFF SWITCH
YES
2CH ANALOGUE AUDIO OUTPUT
1 (RCA PIN cord)
SIGNAL - TO - NOISE RATIO
more than 50 dB (DIN-B)

WOW AND FLUTTER
less than 0.25% (WRMS)

 

[Imanuel]

Looking at the back of your receiver I didn't see a phono input. Unless your TT has a built in phono. You'll have to get an external phono.

Thanks. the TT has a built-in amp. But this is a very budget TT, so I think it might be a crap system. I think I need to switch off the phone and go with the line (see photo here https://static.digitecgalaxus.ch/Files/5/4/3/2/6/4/4/590621-2.jpg?fit=inside|400:269&output-format=progressive-jpeg)

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks. the TT has a built-in amp. But this is a very budget TT, so I think it might be a crap system. I think I need to switch off the phone and go with the line (see photo here https://static.digitecgalaxus.ch/Files/5/4/3/2/6/4/4/590621-2.jpg?fit=inside|400:269&output-format=progressive-jpeg)

Absolutely, unless the switch is set to line it won't work. I assumed you knew that already!

The published specs are useless. The crucial spec, is the voltage out from the preamp at full cartridge modulation. In other words what is the voltage output from the preamp at max cartridge output. That is never stated. So only people who can measure it and have a calibrated test LP can get the answer.

 

[Imanuel]

Absolutely, unless the switch is set to line it won't work. I assumed you knew that already!

The published specs are useless. The crucial spec, is the voltage out from the preamp at full cartridge modulation. In other words what is the voltage output from the preamp at max cartridge output. That is never stated. So only people who can measure it and have a calibrated test LP can get the answer.

I need to switch to line to plug an external preamp between the TT and the AVR. Correct? If I leave it in phono, then it will use the internal built-in phono, which at this point doesn't give me a decent normal volume.

 

[TLS Guy]

I need to switch to line to plug an external preamp between the TT and the AVR. Correct? If I leave it in phono, then it will use the internal built-in phono, which at this point doesn't give me a decent normal volume.

No! All you need to do is switch the turntable to line. The turntable already has a built in phono preamp.

If the receiver had an equalized phono input you could use the phono output. Since yours does not you need to go to line and use a line input on the receiver.

On phono the turntable output is direct from the cartridge. This is a low level signal that is about 3 to 5 mv usually. The signal also has the RIAA curve. A phono preamp boots this signal to around a volt, or should, but they often don't. It also applies the inverse of the RIAA curve. A phono input on a receiver does the same thing.

So if you set the turntable to line, a phono preamp would be way overloaded at the input, plus you would correct the RIAA curve twice!

One last piece of advice. READ YOUR USER MANUALS.

 

[Imanuel]

No! All you need to do is switch the turntable to line. The turntable already has a built in phono preamp.

If the receiver had an equalized phono input you could use the phono output. Since yours does not you need to go to line and use a line input on the receiver.

On phono the turntable output is direct from the cartridge. This is a low level signal that is about 3 to 5 mv usually. The signal also has the RIAA curve. A phono preamp boots this signal to around a volt, or should, but they often don't. It also applies the inverse of the RIAA curve. A phono input on a receiver does the same thing.

So if you set the turntable to line, a phono preamp would be way overloaded at the input, plus you would correct the RIAA curve twice!

One last piece of advice. READ YOUR USER MANUALS.

That's the thing, if I use "line" the sound is even lower. I'm using "phono" in the turntable and connecting to the "audio 3" of the AVR, which is for RCA cables.

I've read both manuals, but they aren't very helpful when it comes with very low volume.

 

[TLS Guy]

That's the thing, if I use "line" the sound is even lower. I'm using "phono" in the turntable and connecting to the "audio 3" of the AVR, which is for RCA cables.

I've read both manuals, but they aren't very helpful when it comes with very low volume.

So, are you telling me that the sound when connected to Audio 3 line input is quieter with the switch set to line then phono? If that is so then the internal preamp of the Sony is defective. We have run not this issue before with that turntable.

In all honesty those turntables are absolute junk. I would return it.

Analog devices are not like digital ones, where budget equipment can work quite well. That is not so with analog devices like turntables. You have to spend some significant money for a decent turntable.

If you really want to play LPs, this is really the entry point for LP playback and you will need a phono pre amp for your receiver with that turntable.

 

[Imanuel]

So, are you telling me that the sound when connected to Audio 3 line input is quieter with the switch set to line then phono? If that is so then the internal preamp of the Sony is defective. We have run not this issue before with that turntable.

In all honesty those turntables are absolute junk. I would return it.

Analog devices are not like digital ones, where budget equipment can work quite well. That is not so with analog devices like turntables. You have to spend some significant money for a decent turntable.

If you really want to play LPs, this is really the entry point for LP playback and you will need a phono pre amp for your receiver with that turntable.

It was a gift, so I just used it when I bought my home theater. Yep, I'm starting to think I need to upgrade to a better turntable, but I just finished investing $800 in my audio and video equipment, so I will do it next year. The TT works, badly, but at least i works. It's a pain in the ass I need to raise the volume every time, but it's a temp solution until I have the cash for a new TT. Just one last question. Buying an external preamp won't do me any good, right?

 

[TLS Guy]

It very likely will help you. You are going to need a phono preamp anyway for your next turntable.

So you will set your turntable to phono, and NOT line. Connect the turntable leads to the input of the preamp. Connect the output of the preamp to a line in connection on your receiver.

 

[lovinthehd]

You might check your avr manual for an input/source level adjustment and raise the one you're using for the record player so that it's closer in volume to that of the other sources....

 

[Imanuel]

It very likely will help you. You are going to need a phono preamp anyway for your next turntable.

So you will set your turntable to phono, and NOT line. Connect the turntable leads to the input of the preamp. Connect the output of the preamp to a line in connection on your receiver.

thanks for the help

 

[Imanuel]

You might check your avr manual for an input/source level adjustment and raise the one you're using for the record player so that it's closer in volume to that of the other sources....

thanks. I will check the US owners manual for my AVR. In Europe, they don't give a hard copy when I purchased it, just an installation guide

 

[TLS Guy]

You might check your avr manual for an input/source level adjustment and raise the one you're using for the record player so that it's closer in volume to that of the other sources....

That won't be the problem, as the output direct from the cartridge is higher than than the output from the internal preamp!

Those turntables are POS.

 

[lovinthehd]

thanks. I will check the US owners manual for my AVR. In Europe, they don't give a hard copy when I purchased it, just an installation guide

Pretty typical these days, I just download the pdf of a manual for any equipment I buy, more handy on the computer and the search is usually better than the index....

 

[lovinthehd]

That won't be the problem, as the output direct from the cartridge is higher than than the output from the internal preamp!

Those turntables are POS.

It may alleviate his issue when switching to other sources from the record player, to have them closer in volume until he finds other solutions.

 

[Bucknekked]

If you really want to play LPs, this is really the entry point for LP playback and you will need a phono pre amp for your receiver with that turntable.

I own one of these Orbit Uturn tables. TLS Guy is correct, they are a good starter turntable. I play just enough vinyl to justify a good table. Not enough to justify a great table. This is a very fine table.

I've read your discussion on low volume with some interest. The previous discussions are full of good technical points. Yes, this TT requires a phono pre amp. Yes, you can get one from the Orbit folks. I did and it works great. I don't use it anymore because I bought a new AVR that has a phono stage in it.

Guess what happened when I plugged in my new cool turntable : I HAD VERY LOW VOLUME.
Guess what the fix was? Per TLS_Guy : RTFM : read the manual.
As is turns out, on my new AVR, the phono input is adjustable. At its factory setting, my volume from the TT was so soft I could barely hear it. I adjusted it up approximately +12db and it sounds fantastic.

All points considered, RTFM is a good answer and so is getting a great TT and plugging it in to a proper phono stage, either included with the TT or on a good amp or AVR. I'm happy with mine.

 

[lovinthehd]

I own one of these Orbit Uturn tables. TLS Guy is correct, they are a good starter turntable. I play just enough vinyl to justify a good table. Not enough to justify a great table. This is a very fine table.

I've read your discussion on low volume with some interest. The previous discussions are full of good technical points. Yes, this TT requires a phono pre amp. Yes, you can get one from the Orbit folks. I did and it works great. I don't use it anymore because I bought a new AVR that has a phono stage in it.

Guess what happened when I plugged in my new cool turntable : I HAD VERY LOW VOLUME.
Guess what the fix was? Per TLS_Guy : RTFM : read the manual.
As is turns out, on my new AVR, the phono input is adjustable. At its factory setting, my volume from the TT was so soft I could barely hear it. I adjusted it up approximately +12db and it sounds fantastic.

All points considered, RTFM is a good answer and so is getting a great TT and plugging it in to a proper phono stage, either included with the TT or on a good amp or AVR. I'm happy with mine.

FWIW I was the one who brought up the manual and using the level adjustment, TLSGuy said it was not going to help particularly