Hurricanes

[TheWarrior]

The problem I have with all of this is the people who make the most noise about it are so certain about the exact cause and then, they show 100 years of temperature data. That's not remotely close to what's needed to form an accurate conclusion but it does amplify their statements.

Not long ago, I saw an article stating that volcanic activity produces far more CO2 than scientists had assumed. I wasn't aware that scientists assumed anything, I thought they would have theorized and then tested these ideas, in order to prove them correct, or incorrect. Kilauea has been erupting continuously since January 3, 1983- how much CO2 has that added to the atmosphere? What about the other large eruptions like Mt Pinatubo and Mt St Helen?

It's denial to state that human activity isn't a large part of the cause, but it's arrogant to think that we can reverse it quickly. The climate is too complex and all-encompassing to make it change in a short time.

Here's a link to some info about volcanic activity-

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275946715_Global_temperature_response_to_the_major_volcanic_eruptions_in_multiple_reanalysis_datasets

Not sure what your point is. Climate change is more complex than CO2 emissions. Volcanoes have been erupting for millions of years. Not sure what you consider to be a 'short time' but we've seen new records every year for over a decade, every year is hotter than the last. Storms are bigger, and the damage more expensive. It's a shame you claim arrogance to defend your apathy. We ALL need to change what we're doing, and the sooner the better!

 

[Rickster71]

The Earth's climate has been doing nothing but changing for 4.5 billion years.
The nerve of these storms... to hit now must mean........................................
It's the Peak of hurricane season?

 

[Alex2507]

We have four spare bedrooms.

I'd like to reserve Door #2 for the evening of the Twist Fest.

 

[Rickster71]

A really bad storm where many people are going to have their homes destroyed....
And what do they do on this "Audio" site?
Further a political agenda and blame a President they don't like...
Now I understand why a lot of members don't come around any more.

 

[Pogre]

I'll see if I can dig it up, but there are ice core samples taken from Antarctica and scientists can see the climate changes dating back to 20,000 years. At no other point in that last 20,000 years has the global temperature spiked as fast as it has in the last 100. It's no longer a debate, it's fact. We're absolutely contributing to global warming.

It blows my mind how, in the face of all available evidence, there are still climate deniers and flat earthers. They attack science like religion does. I never would have thought it at one time, but I can see us being the center of the universe coming back in style too. We're going backwards here!

Thinking like that is, imo, dangerous and does nothing but harm as it stymies progress, education and sows a lot of misinformation. I can't even watch youtube videos about stuff like this without feeling angry and very concerned for the future of humanity. Whether or not this is part of a natural cycle people need to get their heads out of their asses and start working toward lessening our impact, because we're definitely hastening it.

 

[Pogre]

Oops. I was wrong. They can go back 800,000 years now.

"Trends
Over the last 800,000 years atmospheric CO2 levels as indicated by the ice-core data have fluctuated between 170 and 300 parts per million by volume (ppmv), corresponding with conditions of glacial and interglacial periods. The Vostok core indicates very similar trends. Prior to about 450,000 years before present time (BP) atmospheric CO2 levels were always at or below 260 ppmv and reached lowest values, approaching 170 ppmv, between 660,000 and 670,000 years ago. The highest pre-industrial value recorded in 800,000 years of ice-core record was 298.6 ppmv, in the Vostok core, around 330,000 years ago. Atmospheric CO2 levels have increased markedly in industrial times; measurements in year 2010 at Cape Grim Tasmania and the South Pole both indicated values of 386 ppmv, and are currently increasing at about 2 ppmv/year."

That one was easy to find. I've seen charts and that's what I'm looking for. Now bear in mind I'm not claiming I think humans are solely responsible, but there's no question we're adding fuel to the fire. If we're headed toward a cliff why would we stomp harder on the gas pedal? This goes far beyond blaming a president or politics for me.

 

[Alex2507]

Now I understand why a lot of members don't come around any more.

I thought it was because they didn't like shadyJ.

 

[Pogre]

I thought it was because they didn't like shadyJ.

I almost clicked "agree" to be funny but I like Shady!

 

[roadwarrior]

A really bad storm where many people are going to have their homes destroyed....
And what do they do on this "Audio" site?
Further a political agenda and blame a President they don't like...
Now I understand why a lot of members don't come around any more.

I actually live in one of those states that just got hit and I have a niece and a brand new days old great nephew who was born in one of those storms with neighbors down the block who just lost everything and my niece is helping cleaning damaged homes out as we speak so I'd appreciate a little less of the "high hat" with regards to us not thinking about those poor people who might lose everything in my old state of Florida because some of the ones you're railing against are potentially those people. Science and basic human compassion can walk and chew gum at the same time.

I won't mention my politics but I don't vote party much anymore I vote person and if some don't come around an internet forum because they don't get their political beliefs validated or even get them challenged then maybe they should ask themselves why that even matters because I for one could care less what Gene's politics are or yours or mine for that matter. We're all Americans first not members of any one party. The quicker we figure that out the better because from the looks of things in this world it's going to be all hands on deck here pretty soon. Meaning now!

 

[roadwarrior]

As long as the alternatives can be produced without doing their own harm to the planet, it's a good idea but the economic impact to people who can't afford to go "off-grid" on their own and even cities and states that don't have the tax base to fund alternative power generation would be too much to bear, especially in states with energy companies that have a de-facto monopoly on most of that state (like WE Energies, in Wisconsin). Anyone who thinks these energy companies will stand idly by while others come up with an alternate source to what they provide as a for-profit industry is fooling themselves. They tell us to conserve energy (I guess that sounds more caring than 'use less energy') and shortly after, they raise rates because they aren't selling as much energy. They WILL make their money- that's guaranteed, even if they have to charge $1/kWh.

The irony WRT WE Energies- they have solar panels on their HQ in downtown Milwaukee.

The energy companies know better than anyone about the future of fossil fuels. It's going to happen regardless. Just a matter of when not if and I live in oil country.

 

[Rickster71]

...... I'd appreciate a little less of the "high hat" with regards to us not thinking about those poor people who might lose everything in my old state of Florida because some of the ones you're railing against are potentially those people.

Sounds like we both appreciate different things. I'd appreciate a little less of the "low road" that this thread took early on starting with post 4.
I'm also one of the people that's about to lose property on west coast of FL in the next few days.

.... if some don't come around an internet forum because they don't get their political beliefs validated or even get them challenged then maybe they should ask themselves why that even matters

Or they're tired of the same old BS and are interested in Audio from an audio site?
There's a Sticky by the Mods at the top of the Steam Vent calling for no political posts, since it's an Audio site.

 

[gene]

I guess we'll have to blame Franklin Delano Roosevelt for 1933 being the 2nd busiest hurricane season on record.... 20

The frequency of hurricanes doesn't increase with anthropological climate change, just the intensity and size of the storms. Compare the size of Hurricane Andrew to Irma and you get a better understanding. Warmer oceans, more kinentic energy, it's really not rocket science, nor controversial, nor political.

 

[gene]

Did you see the size comparison to Andrew? Whatever you're going to do, do it now. There's two highways out of FL, and there's only so many spaces at a shelter. Choose one and move!

I may be heading to Melbourne within the hour. I have family there with hurricane shutters on their house and a big supply food and more importantly Grappa

 

[gene]

The problem I have with all of this is the people who make the most noise about it are so certain about the exact cause and then, they show 100 years of temperature data. That's not remotely close to what's needed to form an accurate conclusion but it does amplify their statements.

Not long ago, I saw an article stating that volcanic activity produces far more CO2 than scientists had assumed. I wasn't aware that scientists assumed anything, I thought they would have theorized and then tested these ideas, in order to prove them correct, or incorrect. Kilauea has been erupting continuously since January 3, 1983- how much CO2 has that added to the atmosphere? What about the other large eruptions like Mt Pinatubo and Mt St Helen?

It's denial to state that human activity isn't a large part of the cause, but it's arrogant to think that we can reverse it quickly. The climate is too complex and all-encompassing to make it change in a short time.

Here's a link to some info about volcanic activity-

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275946715_Global_temperature_response_to_the_major_volcanic_eruptions_in_multiple_reanalysis_datasets

Nobody is saying we can reverse it. I honestly don't think we can. People are too dependent on fossil fuels and even if we shut down all C02 emissions tomorrow, its still built up in the atmosphere already. The best we can do now is have tighter regulations on how and where to build, protect coastal areas with natural barriers and synthetic where needed (this is already happenening in Europe and Australia), make a transistion away from fossil fuels to clean renewable energy and migrate when needed. I also think we should look into researching ways to diffuse hurricanes, perhaps with surfacing the ocean areas with corn oil or a non toxic reasonably easy substance to clean up afterwards or something else. If it's even remotely possible to combat them, then its a worthwhile effort and likely less costly effort than rebuilding destroyed areas.

 

[gene]

The Earth's climate has been doing nothing but changing for 4.5 billion years.
The nerve of these storms... to hit now must mean........................................
It's the Peak of hurricane season?

Wow that's a really dumb argument. We aren't talking about linear progressions of change. Human activity has caused exponential increases in CO2 emissions and we have accurate records of this dating backs 10s of thousands of years in ice sheets. It always amazes me how people embrace science when it comes to technology, space exploration, etc but somehow rebuke climate science that uses the very same processes.

 

[Rickster71]

Wow that's a really dumb argument.......

Since you chose the usual ad hominem.
You mentioned in an earlier post about "Dependency on fossil fuels. Then in a later post also mention traveling across the state. Sounds like fossil fuels are a necessity for now and not really a dependency.

 

[gene]

Since you chose the usual ad hominem.
You mentioned in an earlier post about "Dependency on fossil fuels. Then in a later post also mention traveling across the state. Sounds like fossil fuels are a necessity for now and not really a dependency.

I never advocated getting off fossil fuels and until electric cars are truly viable, yes they are necessary.

 

[Rickster71]

......we have accurate records of this dating backs 10s of thousands of years in ice sheets. It always amazes me how people embrace science when it comes to technology, space exploration, etc but somehow rebuke climate science that uses the very same processes.

Right.... the same science that couldn't predict the path of this storm two days ahead. (It went from one side of the state to the other)
That's the science that's going to be accurate 10s of thousands of years ago?

 

[roadwarrior]

Sounds like we both appreciate different things.

Thank God for that.

I'd appreciate a little less of the "low road" that this thread took early on starting with post 4.

Yeah, that wasn't me and it sounds like you're just a bit too sensitive to be on the internet dude . If the naming of the current leader of the free world gets you all up in a twist maybe you should just read a good book or go to the movies instead of being online because this is what happens when any one particular party is in power. Would you have rather he lost because I guarantee you nobody would be saying anything then?

Or they're tired of the same old BS and are interested in Audio from an audio site?
There's a Sticky by the Mods at the top of the Steam Vent calling for no political posts, since it's an Audio site.

What I get tired of in these online forums is the guy who always says "such and such" is the reason why no one comes around here anymore. It happens on XDA , it happens on Reddit, it happens on AVS and it happens here. If any of that was actually true then there wouldn't be anyone left posting on any of these sites. I read here because I like to learn. I teach elsewhere because I like to teach. I've long ago stopped playing the , "I'll just take my ball and go home but not really wanting to go home" game because frankly it's very childish and doesn't mean anything.

I'm also one of the people that's about to lose property on west coast of FL in the next few days.

Yeah, so your an out of state Florida snowbird like my uncle from Rochester N.Y. , so what? Insurance replaces material things it doesn't replace human life.

I'm sorry you might lose a winter home on the Florida coast but I'm more concerned about the caretaker's life at the Hemingway house or the lives of the people I went to school with and scouted with over the years who still live and work there. I don't really want to keep having this Monopoly game discussion equating loss by the way because this isn't a disaster board game. This is real life with real life and death consequences were delving into so I'll give you your winter home in Florida if you'll give me my niece and grand nephew which I'll take any day of the week by the way. Twice on Sundays.

Good talk.

 

[ATLAudio]

The frequency of hurricanes doesn't increase with anthropological climate change, just the intensity and size of the storms. Compare the size of Hurricane Andrew to Irma and you get a better understanding. Warmer oceans, more kinentic energy, it's really not rocket science, nor controversial, nor political.

It's like Barry Bonds using steroids. I'm sure he'd have kept hitting home runs without so many steroids that he grew two hat sizes; just not as many. So which are the steroid home runs and which are the home runs he would have gotten anyways?