Incorporating MiniDSP With Audyssey XT32

[PENG]

Or this. Wtf?

Those are not chinese, no idea what language it is.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I read the whole thing and it seems clear DEQ has no effects at volume setting 0 because that should be reference level if Audyssey was run properly.

The offsets (not MV) allow you to lessen the effects so it you increase the offset to 5 or 10, you will get less boost regardless of the volume setting so at volume 0 DEQ will still have no effects by design.

He recommends leaving offset at 0 for movies that is mixed to THX standard. Obviously one may feel THX mix is too hot and too loud so one may prefer yto have an offset.

I agree. That's why I was confused when in post 8 he said it works above zero. Idk...
However, per your "reference", I'm going to play with the offsets in my avr. Seems I might like that, although I haven't any complaints and don't use DEQ(except sometimes).

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Those are not chinese, no idea what language it is.

Maybe I shouldn't have said Chinese. I don't know what they are either. I've seen that a few times before. Weird...

 

[Pogre]

I have some more 10-200hz sweeps, 80hz crossover, MultEQ XT32 on, DEQ on and off. I labeled all the lines so you can see which is which. Each line is an average of 6 sweeps in and around my chair. There is no smoothing in any of the measurements.

EQ1, 1 port open, DEQ on and off.

EQ2, 2 ports open, DEQ on and off.

This is all 4 sets of measurements all overlayed.

Pogre style! It's EQ2, both ports open with a little love for the sub channel.

 

[Pogre]

That was a lot of work! Made more difficult by my still being in the trial and error stage. Dumb things like only having 1 speaker on, or forgetting to turn DEQ on or off, etc. Had to re-do a few. All done for the night now. I'm hitting the sack.

 

[PENG]

I agree. That's why I was confused when in post 8 he said it works above zero. Idk...
However, per your "reference", I'm going to play with the offsets in my avr. Seems I might like that, although I haven't any complaints and don't use DEQ(except sometimes).

Can you link, or copy/paste that post 8? In the one I linked ( https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212346363-Dynamic-EQ-Questions) earlier, I read all the posts and did not see that he mentioned "works above zero", instead he said more than once that it wouldn't.

In one of the post he said:

Hi Joel,

It's the other way around! Dynamic EQ does less and less as you turn the volume up. At 0 dB master volume it does nothing. That's because this is the level that the movie was mixed and so you are listening at reference where the decisions of low and high frequency balance were made in the studio.

As you turn the volume down, our perception of bass levels drops off faster than the high frequencies. So, Dynamic EQ kicks in and adjusts the balance so you can perceive it as you would at reference level.

For movies, the Reference Level Offset should be 0 because we know exactly what level was used in the mix. For music and TV content, however, we don't because there are no strict standards. For this type of content we recommend turning the Ref. Level Offset to –10 dB so that Dynamic EQ doesn't overcompensate."

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hi peng. I'll try this screen shot. It's the first line. I wish he would have elaborated a little. Maybe after work today I'll see if I can find anything else.

 

[PENG]

Hi peng. I'll try this screen shot. It's the first line. I wish he would have elaborated a little. Maybe after work today I'll see if I can find anything

Actually I Google again and found that you were not reading my link. The one you referred to is:

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

He said "Yes, Dynamic EQ will operate above 0 dB on the master volume to preserve the reference balance."

That makes sense, and that's why the graph shows the compensation would reverse direction to trend upward very slightly. It is all to do with the THX movie mix. He actually did elaborate in the one I linked and I pasted part of it in my post#186. If you are curious enough you should read that whole linked page.

Thanks again for taking the time. I always know at volume 0 it is supposed to do nothing, but I never pay attention to the above 0 thing until you mentioned it. Honestly I have never ever watched any movie near 0, -15 is the highest I would go, might have tried -10 for a couple of minutes.

To to conclude, at below 0, DEQ boost low frequency dynamically and varies with volume setting and frequency. At MV 0, it does nothing, at above 0, it works again to preserve the reference balance.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I will go through the link you posted, and do appreciate it. I also intend to try the offsets.
Btw, do you know any reason I couldn't use the non Hd minidsp? Far as I can tell, its output(.9v)is higher than my avr, so I think I'd find the opposite of other guys that had to increase preout voltage. My avr says 200mv(.2v I believe).

 

[Pogre]

I will go through the link you posted, and do appreciate it. I also intend to try the offsets.
Btw, do you know any reason I couldn't use the non Hd minidsp? Far as I can tell, its output(.9v)is higher than my avr, so I think I'd find the opposite of other guys that had to increase preout voltage. My avr says 200mv(.2v I believe).

I'm going to also. I spent way more time taking measurements yesterday than I had intended. I have to go back a few pages and catch back up with my own thread!

Based on that last set of measurements, which look much better since I moved my speakers out from the wall, is it worth busting out the HD mini? Will I be able to flatten that response more with it? What's the learning curve like with that thing and rew?

 

[Pogre]

I don't know if it makes a difference because I am new to separate subwoofers but, does upfiring, or downfiring make any difference in situations like this with windows close to speakers or what looks like a sliding glass door in the room?

That's a good question, and yes that's a sliding glass door.

 

[Pogre]

Again, I am not saying the problem is not a phase thing, it probably is, but I am saying with DEQ on, especially if plotted at low spl level, you will see a steeper slope (but not a trough) because the DEQ boost varies inversely with frequency and volume. They did it that way to match human hearing characteristics, that we are less sensitive to the lower frequencies at low spl. That's what make DEQ so much better than the simple "loudness" button in the old days.

Put it this way, a slope down towards the higher bass frequencies would be at least partially attributable to DEQ, Pogre can prove it simply by overlaying the DEQ on Vs off as I did in August 2014. If there is a trough, then it could well be a phase issue. The two things are not mutually exclusive, though the DEQ effect is normal and good, the phase effect, if resulted in a trough, is not good and can be fixed.

Done. The results are posted now.

 

[Pogre]

I will go through the link you posted, and do appreciate it. I also intend to try the offsets.
Btw, do you know any reason I couldn't use the non Hd minidsp? Far as I can tell, its output(.9v)is higher than my avr, so I think I'd find the opposite of other guys that had to increase preout voltage. My avr says 200mv(.2v I believe).

The offsets make a big difference. The effect is not nearly as exaggerated at -10 or -15 vs 0.

 

[PENG]

I will go through the link you posted, and do appreciate it. I also intend to try the offsets.
Btw, do you know any reason I couldn't use the non Hd minidsp? Far as I can tell, its output(.9v)is higher than my avr, so I think I'd find the opposite of other guys that had to increase preout voltage. My avr says 200mv(.2v I believe).

I think it depends, if you plan on connecting the AVR preout to the minidsp and the minidsp output to a power amp or subwoofer amp then 0.9V would seem too low. I was going to get the non HD but now that you mentioned the 0.9V, I am going to bite the bullet and get the HD version for $100 more.

 

[lovinthehd]

I will go through the link you posted, and do appreciate it. I also intend to try the offsets.
Btw, do you know any reason I couldn't use the non Hd minidsp? Far as I can tell, its output(.9v)is higher than my avr, so I think I'd find the opposite of other guys that had to increase preout voltage. My avr says 200mv(.2v I believe).

What avr? My Onkyo is rated same as yours, nominal 200mV (at 470 ohm), but also with a max of 4.6V; most outboard amps are going to need more than .2V I think....

 

[PENG]

I'm going to also. I spent way more time taking measurements yesterday than I had intended. I have to go back a few pages and catch back up with my own thread!

Based on that last set of measurements, which look much better since I moved my speakers out from the wall, is it worth busting out the HD mini? Will I be able to flatten that response more with it? What's the learning curve like with that thing and rew?

Haven't you past the return window already? If so, why not have some fun with it.

 

[Pogre]

Haven't you past the return window already? If so, why not have some fun with it.

Okay, you talked me into it!

So the idea here is to use the mini between my avr and sub amps, right? Will I be using REW and my Umik mic to take measurements and generate a curve? I would then apply that curve to the mini, correct? Dial it in as best I can with the mini, then run Audyssey.

Plugins. I don't know how many I need. I know I need one for REW. I have a card for 1 free plugin. Do I start with the REW plugin? How many more will I need?

 

[lovinthehd]

The plugins are for the miniDSP's functions depending on what you're doing....do you have the HD? https://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins/2x4-hd-plugins/2x4hd1-detail

 

[Pogre]

The plugins are for the miniDSP's functions depending on what you're doing....do you have the HD? https://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins/2x4-hd-plugins/2x4hd1-detail

I have the HD 2x4. I'm planning to do what I typed above, unless there's a better way to incorporate it with my towers or something too. I think what @ATLAudio did was smooth things with his mini and ran Audyssey after. Audyssey was able to dial it in better with some help if I understood correctly.

*Edit: I'm getting it out of the box right now and starting with that plugin.

 

[Pogre]

I'm struggling with the power cord right now... lol. Why can't it just be the right plug already in there!

*Edit: Found the button for switching the plugs.