How do you determine the superior receiver?

[3rdeye]

I got into trouble asking this about speakers. The consensus seemed to be to audition speakers and see what I like.

I'm assuming that price isn't inherently indicative of superior performance. Do you compare parts? And if so, how? As an example, I need to buy one and I'm hearing good things about the Denon 4300. So much so that I'm almost willing to buy it from the feedback. But I'd like to understand the process of determining the better AVR based on the specs.

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[Mikado463]

better specs , better AVR ................. !

on a serious note I'll let the AVR experts chime in but for me I like to know more about the amplifier section of a receiver, but then I'm a guy that for years was in love with inefficient speakers so that part was critical

 

[Hetfield]

better specs , better AVR ................. !

on a serious note I'll let the AVR experts chime in but for me I like to know more about the amplifier section of a receiver, but then I'm a guy that for years was in love with inefficient speakers so that part was critical

I agree, the amp sections of most receivers have taken a step back. That is why I went back to separates and am not looking back.

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[3rdeye]

better specs , better AVR ................. !

I am hoping someone can add color to what this means. I'd like to be able to know what specs are compared and what spec comparisons really matter when choosing an AVR.


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[Joe B]

When I purchased my current system last year, just about the most important aspect of an AVR that I was interested in was its "room correction software." Since the listening room has such a huge effect on the sound of any system, I wanted to investigate correction software first to get me started; Audyssey, YAPO, ARC, etc. If you've been reading a lot of the posts in this forum, you will see that there is a lot of posting on Audyssey going on, and many of the posts question the settings it chooses and how to work around them. YAPO also has many critics, questions, etc. Anthem's ARC software seems to get positive comments, but I believe a rather small percentage of forum members own Anthem/Paradigm/Martin Logan products so fewer postings seems logical.
After room correction software, other AVR features figured into my choice: number of channels needed, power output, DSP available, etc., and of course cost. Since it is impossible for a regular consumer to compare parts, since specs are not always measured the same way from one manufacturer to another (lots of postings on manufacturer's over-rated amp power output numbers), and since it is unlikely that you would ever be able to audition different AVR's meaningfully (with room correction run, hard wired to source and speakers with no switches, etc.), then what's next?
You stated it in your original post, "I'm hearing good things about the Denon 4300. So much so that I'm almost willing to buy it from the feedback," is not far off. Reading reviews on products by consumers as well as by experts will start to paint a picture for you. If the Denon 4300 has the features you want and the cost is acceptable, pull the trigger.
"But I'd like to understand the process of determining the better AVR based on the specs." I really don't believe you can. I do not believe comparing specs off of a page will give you what you're after.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But I'd like to understand the process of determining the better AVR based on the specs.

For all NEW audio enthusiasts, I recommend reading back issues of The Audio Critic for free online.

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/

Then you will know the TRUTH about amps, preamps, AVR, DAC, cables/wires, etc.

For AVR, all the measured specs will look great, even the cheap $300 AVR will have great measurements as far as the usual SNR, Crosstalk, THD, Frequency Response.

The only spec worth noting these days is the POWER output. For example, 100 watts per channel x 2 Ch into 8 ohms, 80 watts per channel x 5 Ch into 8 ohms, 150 watts per Ch x 2 Ch into 4 ohms.

I would personally be concerned if an AVR measures 100 WPC x 2 CH & then 40 WPC x 5 CH.

I would also be concerned if an AVR measures 50 WPC x 5 Ch into 8 ohms, but can't even be measured when it's 5 Ch driven into 4 ohms.

Next you look at FEATURES like Audyssey XT32 Dynamic EQ, AirPlay, 4K video, etc.

For someone like me, I would never buy anything without Audyssey XT Dynamic EQ, which means Denon, Marantz, and McIntosh.

For others, it may be ARC or DIRAC or YPAO, etc.

Then it's the price. If you can get an awesome $1,500 Denon AVR for $750 brand new delivered from an authorized dealer, why wouldn't you buy it before the sale is over?

 

[3rdeye]

For all NEW audio enthusiasts, I recommend reading back issues of The Audio Critic for free online.

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/

Then you will know the TRUTH about amps, preamps, AVR, DAC, cables/wires, etc.

For AVR, all the measured specs will look great, even the cheap $300 AVR will have great measurements as far as the usual SNR, Crosstalk, THD, Frequency Response.

The only spec worth noting these days is the POWER output. For example, 100 watts per channel x 2 Ch into 8 ohms, 80 watts per channel x 5 Ch into 8 ohms, 150 watts per Ch x 2 Ch into 4 ohms.

Next you look at FEATURES like Audyssey XT32 Dynamic EQ, AirPlay, 4K video, etc.

For someone like me, I would never buy anything without Audyssey XT Dynamic EQ, which means Denon, Marantz, and McIntosh.

For others, it may be ARC or DIRAC or YPAO, etc.

Then it's the price. If you can get an awesome $1,500 Denon AVR for $750 brand new delivered from an authorized dealer, why wouldn't you buy it before the sale is over?

Thanks a LOT for that link. That's the type of resource that someone new like me needs.

Is Audyssey XT room correction software?
What's dynamic EQ, ARC, DIRAC, and YPAO?

I think I'm just going to get it and learn later!

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[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is Audyssey XT room correction software?
What's dynamic EQ, ARC, DIRAC, and YPAO?

Audyssey, ARC, DIRAC, YPAO, and some others are ROOM EQ, which I care exactly 0.00% for.

Audyssey Dynamic EQ is significant for BASS EQ, which I care 100% for.

I actually use "Audyssey BYPASS L/R + Dynamic EQ". So when I listen to music (2Ch), Audyssey Room EQ is Bypassed and I just get Dynamic EQ (DEQ), which is significant Bass EQ.

In other words, to me music doesn't sound very good without Audyssey DEQ.

 

[3rdeye]

Audyssey, ARC, DIRAC, YPAO, and some others are ROOM EQ, which I care exactly 0.00% for.

Audyssey Dynamic EQ is significant for BASS EQ, which I care 100% for.

I actually use "Audyssey BYPASS L/R + Dynamic EQ". So when I listen to music (2Ch), Audyssey Room EQ is Bypassed and I just get Dynamic EQ (DEQ), which is significant Bass EQ.

In other words, to me music doesn't sound very good without Audyssey DEQ.

I thought you like Audyssey XT? If so, what does that do?

Or is it just Audyssey (without the XT) that you don't like.

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[AcuDefTechGuy]

I thought you like Audyssey XT? If so, what does that do?

Or is it just Audyssey (without the XT) that you don't like.

I like DYNAMIC EQ part, not the Audyssey part.

However, I think Audyssey FLAT sounds just like Audyssey BYPASS.

But you have to apply Audyssey first before you can get Dynamic EQ.

So I apply Audyssey first (8-point with microphone), then I choose Audyssey Bypass L/R (instead of Audyssey Reference or FLAT), then I turn ON Dynamic EQ, and turn OFF Dynamic Volume.

So basically the Audyssey part is the ROOM EQ part. The Dynamic EQ part is the BASS EQ part.

 

[3rdeye]

I like DYNAMIC EQ part, not the Audyssey part.

However, I think Audyssey FLAT sounds just like Audyssey BYPASS.

But you have to apply Audyssey first before you can get Dynamic EQ.

So I apply Audyssey first (8-point with microphone), then I choose Audyssey Bypass L/R (instead of Audyssey Reference or FLAT), then I turn ON Dynamic EQ, and turn OFF Dynamic Volume.

Prepare to get bombarded with questions when I get my AVR

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[AcuDefTechGuy]

Prepare to get bombarded with questions when I get my AVR

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I think the majority of the members here own Denon or Marantz, so you should have plenty of resources.

 

[pewternhrata]

Id ask what is the receiver being used for? In a simple family room style setup for casual movie watching, I don't think you would hear a substantial difference between receivers.
If your going to utilize the space for a dedicated theater, critical listening, room acoustics, thought out speaker placement, demanding speakers, and so on, i would push for separates.
If your going to utilize a 2 channel setup for music as well, that also ties into the direction you would want to go, most receivers these days will all play back movies pretty darn good in my opinion, however music playback is in another world.
How 'loud' do you play, how long will the receiver be running (cooling issues)
Better receivers do not always come with more 'power' or better advertized specs but will sound 'louder', more detailed. Think speaker sensitivity as well. In an audio gurus head, it's more towards overall efficiency across all equipment.

 

[3rdeye]

Id ask what is the receiver being used for? In a simple family room style setup for casual movie watching, I don't think you would hear a substantial difference between receivers.
If your going to utilize the space for a dedicated theater, critical listening, room acoustics, thought out speaker placement, demanding speakers, and so on, i would push for separates.
If your going to utilize a 2 channel setup for music as well, that also ties into the direction you would want to go, most receivers these days will all play back movies pretty darn good in my opinion, however music playback is in another world.
How 'loud' do you play, how long will the receiver be running (cooling issues)
Better receivers do not always come with more 'power' or better advertized specs but will sound 'louder', more detailed. Think speaker sensitivity as well. In an audio gurus head, it's more towards overall efficiency across all equipment.

It will be used in my mancave in the basement. It won't get heavy usage since I have a young son. But when I watch movies or television or play music, I want as optimal of an experience that I can afford.

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[Pogre]

It will be used in my mancave in the basement. It won't get heavy usage since I have a young son. But when I watch movies or television or play music, I want as optimal of an experience that I can afford.

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I think you should jump on the 4300 before they're gone. It's a very, very good receiver and I've never seen them priced this low.

If you get speakers that sound good playing music, they'll sound just as good for movies and games. A good sounding speaker is a good sounding speaker.

 

[3rdeye]

I think you should jump on the 4300 before they're gone. It's a very, very good receiver and I've never seen them priced this low.

If you get speakers that sound good playing music, they'll sound just as good for movies and games. A good sounding speaker is a good sounding speaker.

I've got one on the way!

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[3rdeye]

I think you should jump on the 4300 before they're gone. It's a very, very good receiver and I've never seen them priced this low.

If you get speakers that sound good playing music, they'll sound just as good for movies and games. A good sounding speaker is a good sounding speaker.

Did you give me recommendations on speakers too? I can't remember.

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[Pogre]

Did you give me recommendations on speakers too? I can't remember.

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I'm sure I did, but I can't remember if they were in your budget.

 

[3rdeye]

I'm sure I did, but I can't remember if they were in your budget.

I have some extra cash now that I'm not going to pay $1,500 for a receiver! Whoop whoop!!

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[Pogre]

I have some extra cash now that I'm not going to pay $1,500 for a receiver! Whoop whoop!!

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I always recommend SVS Ultra line of speakers. Mainly because that's what I have and I know they're awesome speakers. The bookshelf speakers in that link are really, really good. You get a good sub (or 2) with them and they'll have no problem with main speaker duty.

They have another line, their Prime series, that are a little more affordable and timbre matched with the Ultras. You could shop that line for your surround speakers. I forget your budget tho. Was it 2k for 5 speakers and sub? I don't remember.