I just auditioned the Revel Salon 2...

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here is an interview with Kevin Voecks, engineer behind the Revel Salon 2 discussing the design goals. This speaker is something else, it doesn't surprise me your thoughts on this speaker is nothing short of amazing.

http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/608kev/

I've read that interview and the Stereophile review as well.

I've also read the reviews by Home Theater Magazine, Sound & Vision, and The Absolute Sound.

All indicated that the Salon2s were the "close-to-perfect" speakers.

But so many times in life, hypes like these tend to lead towards letdowns and disappointments.

And it seems like a lot of people claim THEIR speakers (B&W, Wilson Audio, KEF, Avalon, etc., to be better than every other speakers.

The Salon2s took me by surprise. I was completely ambushed. And before I realized it, I was in utter amazement.

After I listened to the Salon2s, I wanted to also check out the Wilson Audio Shasha that Phillip mentioned @ Audio Concepts. Unfortunately, they were closed for the New Years weekend.

I might also check them out just for kicks on another weekend now that I know exactly where they are.

 

[highfigh]

The pair of Salon2 had so much tight bass that the sofa was shaking and the walls were shaking!

Out of curiosity, how did you set up the distance/Audyssey on your Denon? Have you done any manual setup of the distance or did you let Audyssey do it all? Do you have any room treatments, like bass traps? My room's bass response was pretty ragged until I put some panels in.

Mine just didn't sound right and I became really frustrated with the holes in the response, so I turned the sub off and played with the distance (.1 ft increments). I ball-parked the distance starting point (knowing the rooms dimensions and how far I was sitting from the back wall but not by measuring) and varied only one side at a time until the bass was strongest and it didn't feel like my ears were being sucked out of my head, which is what I experience when phase problems occur. If I couldn't get it with the starting distance, I changed that so the .1 ft increment was a lower % of the total distance. It took some time, but I think I got it pretty well and then I verified it with my RTA setup. Once I was OK with the sound, I did the same with the sub's distance setting until I was happy with it. It took some time and was kind of annoying, but I got the results I was looking for.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm not sure why you call the bass 'background'. Have you tried moving around in your room to listen to that part of the song? Try reversing the polarity of the speaker wires, too.

If it were just my speakers, it would be a different story.

Before the Salon2s, my BP7000 actually had the best detail on that bass guitar on that track.

I listened for it when I auditioned the B&W 800D a year ago at a dealer.

I listened for it when I auditioned the Paradigm Studio 100 towers.

I listened for it when I auditioned the B&W 800D again a year later and also the 802D & 803D.

Same thing with the $2,000 Revel M22 bookshelf speakers.

Same thing with the RBH T2/P & T3/P towers.

 

[KEW]

Simply put, I thought the sound of the Salon2s were the best I have ever heard. Period.

For example, that old "background" bass guitar in "Hotel California" that I could barely discern on the B&W 802D, 800D, & RBH T3/P all of the sudden became so distinct and clear along with the rest of the music!

It was amazing I almost cried - for a few seconds.

I have never heard sound that clear, smooth, detailed, dynamic, with powerful tight bass before.

The RBH had bass, but not that kind of resolution & detail.

The B&W did not have that resolution, detail, & bass.

I played Mozart's Piano Concerto #20 and my usual favorite pop music. Phillip also had one of those Harman Kardon demo disc that had a bunch of tracks on there. It was amazing. But it was "demo" material, so they were supposed to sound great.

The amazing thing was that my old CDs now sounded better than before!

No tricks. No gimmicks. The songs just sounded better - more resolution, more details, more information.

So I would give the Salon2 a "10", the T3/P an "8", and the 800D a "5".

The Revel Salon2s are the best speakers I have ever heard to date. And they are monopole speakers!

I would like to audition the Linkwitz Orions next.

Why did you get rid of the Salon 2's?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Why did you get rid of the Salon 2's?

Another example of comparison by memory, instead of side-by-side Level-matched and over a LONG period of time (owning the speakers in your house for a few years).

An hour of comparison (non-blind, biased, memory) just won't do it. It takes months to truly do it right IMO.

As much as I would like to believe I am immune, I am just as biased as anyone on earth.

So after owning and comparing all my speakers over at least 1 year or more, I didn't think they were worth the money.

 

[speakerman39]

Another example of comparison by memory, instead of side-by-side Level-matched and over a LONG period of time (owning the speakers in your house for a few years).

An hour of comparison (non-blind, biased, memory) just won't do it. It takes months to truly do it right IMO.

As much as I would like to believe I am immune, I am just as biased as anyone on earth.

So after owning and comparing all my speakers over at least 1 year or more, I didn't think they were worth the money.

I read not too long ago that Harmon/JBL, as well as, Infinity/Revel will gather competitors products and test their own against them. Until such time the Harmon products are superior to their respective competitors products. Not sure how true that is, but from what I have experienced with JBL I would have to agree.

The JBL 530's that I owned punched way and let emphasize the "way" out of their price range. Should have never sold off the 530's. BIG mistake on my part. Just saying.......... I am sure the Revels are even more impressive but by a large margin.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[TheWarrior]

I read not too long ago that Harmon/JBL, as well as, Infinity/Revel will gather competitors products and test their own against them. Until such time the Harmon products are superior to their respective competitors products. Not sure how true that is, but from what I have experienced with JBL I would have to agree.

The JBL 530's that I owned punched way and let emphasize the "way" out of their price range. Should have never sold off the 530's. BIG mistake on my part. Just saying.......... I am sure the Revels are even more impressive but by a large margin.


Cheers,

Phil

It's the only way to know how you stack up against the competition. Harman is constantly testing other speakers both for internal use as well as subjective testing in the speaker shuffler.

Part of the cost of the Salon2's goes into reproducibility. It's one thing to make a 'golden prototype', it's a whole other thing to reproduce the same specification in mass production! That's where guys like Dennis Murphy have carved out their niche.

 

[KEW]

It's one thing to make a 'golden prototype', it's a whole other thing to reproduce the same specification in mass production! That's where guys like Dennis Murphy have carved out their niche.

I think companies are realizing that if they outsource manufacture to China, et al, you still need to have your own QC to ensure no "drift" from the original design. Unfortunately, this makes it difficult for the small guy who doesn't have the overhead to maintain control of quality at the manufacturing site, or the clout to broker a deal where the manufacturer pays all return shipping and repair cost if defects are received at a QC checkpoint at the US distribution facility. (they may can broker the deal, but enforcing it is a different story)
In all fairness, the bean counters/managers here would take similar shortcuts if they thought they could get away with it, but having the stakeholders/owners who care about the reputation of the company near-by matters!

 

[TheWarrior]

I think companies are realizing that if they outsource manufacture to China, et al, you still need to have your own QC to ensure no "drift" from the original design. Unfortunately, this makes it difficult for the small guy who doesn't have the overhead to maintain control of quality at the manufacturing site, or the clout to broker a deal where the manufacturer pays all return shipping and repair cost if defects are received at a QC checkpoint at the US distribution facility. (they may can broker the deal, but enforcing it is a different story)
In all fairness, the bean counters/managers here would take similar shortcuts if they thought they could get away with it, but having the stakeholders/owners who care about the reputation of the company near-by matters!

For all those out there that deplore the Chinese for leading manufacturing, realize how short sighted and uninformed that opinion is. (Obviously, not you KEW)

China is the worlds largest supplier of rare earth metals. Period. It only makes sense to keep things like neodymium speaker production close to the source, since the primary reason for using that material is it's lower weight, thereby reducing shipping costs. Rather than shipping raw materials to one factory overseas, and then to a warehouse elsewhere, and then to distributor, consumer etc.

'Small guys' needs further definition. But in the continued example of Dennis Murphy's Philharmonic Audio, he is able to test individual components to ensure compliance with specification. Salk is also 'small' but obviously higher production than Philharmonic, but they too seem to be capable of performing the necessary tests in their own production process.

There is still a fault in here that needs to fall back on the consumer for not demanding this kind of information. Even down to the listed specifications of a loudspeaker, they are almost always USELESS. Vague frequency response claims that are not verified with independent measurements, and the more poetry or catch phrases used, the more one should be weary. But the fact remains, companies like Bose have the resources to finance a Formula One team!

 

[KEW]

For all those out there that deplore the Chinese for leading manufacturing, realize how short sighted and uninformed that opinion is. (Obviously, not you KEW)

China is the worlds largest supplier of rare earth metals. Period. It only makes sense to keep things like neodymium speaker production close to the source, since the primary reason for using that material is it's lower weight, thereby reducing shipping costs. Rather than shipping raw materials to one factory overseas, and then to a warehouse elsewhere, and then to distributor, consumer etc.

'Small guys' needs further definition. But in the continued example of Dennis Murphy's Philharmonic Audio, he is able to test individual components to ensure compliance with specification. Salk is also 'small' but obviously higher production than Philharmonic, but they too seem to be capable of performing the necessary tests in their own production process.

There is still a fault in here that needs to fall back on the consumer for not demanding this kind of information. Even down to the listed specifications of a loudspeaker, they are almost always USELESS. Vague frequency response claims that are not verified with independent measurements, and the more poetry or catch phrases used, the more one should be weary. But the fact remains, companies like Bose have the resources to finance a Formula One team!

I hear you on "small guys".
I believe Dennis gets his parts mainly from Parts Express. Parts Express guarantees the part for Dennis, so he has a good system. The question is when Dennis determines a driver is out of spec, what does Parts Express do from there. I'm sure they must have a vehicle for the cost of the defect to go back to the Chinese manufacturer, if not, there is no reason for the manufacturer to maintain quality/consistency!

This actually has little to do with Chinese and more to do with dealing with remotely located "no name" companies. (IOW, these are not household names like General Electric and Apple who have an international reputation to maintain their competitive edge).

 

[KEW]

I hear you on "small guys".
I believe Dennis gets his parts mainly from Parts Express. Parts Express guarantees the part for Dennis, so he has a good system. The question is when Dennis determines a driver is out of spec, what does Parts Express do from there. I'm sure they must have a vehicle for the cost of the defect to go back to the Chinese manufacturer, if not, there is no reason for the manufacturer to maintain quality/consistency!

This actually has little to do with Chinese and more to do with dealing with remotely located "no name" companies. (IOW, these are not household names like General Electric and Apple who have an international reputation to maintain their competitive edge).

Actually, it is probably Dayton Audio (or whoever is the brand-name of the speaker) that holds the line with the manufacturer, not Parts Express.

 

[TheWarrior]

Actually, it is probably Dayton Audio (or whoever is the brand-name of the speaker) that holds the line with the manufacturer, not Parts Express.

By checking every fifth on the conveyor belt.... lol

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Actually, it is probably Dayton Audio (or whoever is the brand-name of the speaker) that holds the line with the manufacturer, not Parts Express.

Dayton and Parts Express are one and the same. PE is located just outside Dayton, Ohio

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Dayton and Parts Express are one and the same. PE is located just outside Dayton, Ohio

I suspected that much for a while. It's not a coincidence that only retailer for Dayton products is PE.

 

[slipperybidness]

Actually, it is probably Dayton Audio (or whoever is the brand-name of the speaker) that holds the line with the manufacturer, not Parts Express.

I'm pretty sure that Dayton Audio is the PE house brand.....edit.....as confirmed by DM

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm pretty sure that Dayton Audio is the PE house brand.....edit.....as confirmed by DM

They share the same address (725 Pleasant Valley Dr) but seem to be separate organizations, Dayton Audio LLC and Parts Express is a registered name for Parts Express International Inc.

 

[Good4it]

DM's stuff is music to my ears!