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TheWrench

Enthusiast
Hello guys and gals, I've been an Audio guy all my life, I have a few pairs of high end headphones and amps because, well I lived with my parents during high school, and lived in the dorms for a while but now I have my own house and I want a good pair of floor speakers that don't take up too much room width wise (only have so much room next to organ, yes I said organ)
I'm a music minor at Iowa state, considering music major, and I have a Baldwin church organ console in my house kindly donated by a church who no longer had anyone to play it, (2 manual full pedalboard and 3 expression pedals for any organ nerds) and I've been doing my practicing with my sennheiser HD650's and a Schiit magni/modi 2 uber stack because I already had them, and I've been saving up for a while.
I'm not ready to purchase just yet, but I'm weighing my options for a good set of stereo speakers that for sound clarity should go down to at least 30 hz, preferably sub 20 for the 32 foot stop pedal parts that go down to about 13 ish hz if I remember right.
I liked the Senn's because they went down to 10 hz but there's nothing like speakers that rattle your chest on the low notes (don't have room or funding for actual pipe organ)
I do have a budget though, I want to keep it under $1500 but I might be willing to suck it up and put down $2250 if that's what it takes for superior lows.
I've been looking at Martin Logan's, but there's nowhere even close for me to audition them. I also don't know what kind of amp I would need, the organ has I believe a 2.5 watt per 32 ohm preamp inside of it, but that isn't enough to even power my no name speakers that were given to me to get me by, it puts off sound at around 25 decibels at full volume, and I don't think the Logan's come with an amp so that would have to be included in the budget. I'll also use them for movie watching from time to time but their primary use will be essentially monitors for my organ practicing.

This is probably an extremely rare use case but any help would be appreciated, I am completely new to high end speakers because I have never had the option to even consider them before now, so headphones were always the only option.
Martins aren't the only options I know, but they're the first ones that came to mind so I was looking at them because I know they come with subs. Feel free to suggest non martins.
Also excuse any spelling errors as I am typing this on my phone, my computer is at home and I am on an internship away from home this summer.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Martin Logans come with subs? I don't think so, they do sell subs but I still probably wouldn't buy one.

You likely would do better with a speaker/sub combo IMO, especially with your budget limitations. How big is your room?

PS What would you drive the speakers with?
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
Check out the Definitive Technology BP9020 speakers if don't mind Bipolar speakers? They have built in subs and are in your price range.

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
LOL hardly "subs" in those speakers when they barely get to 30hz even by DT's inaccurate spec (that's probanbly a -10dB point knowing them), let alone the positioning advantage of separate subs.

Check out the Definitive Technology BP9020 speakers if don't mind Bipolar speakers? They have built in subs and are in your price range.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
LOL hardly "subs" in those speakers when they barely get to 30hz even by DT's inaccurate spec (that's probanbly a -10dB point knowing them), let alone the positioning advantage of separate subs.
Yeah that's true. I should have said the subs aren't really powerful or go that low. They do fit in any a way of what he is looking for. A decent tower with a separate sub is the best option if you can go that route.

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah that's true. I should have said the subs aren't really powerful or go that low. They do fit in any a way of what he is looking for. A decent tower with a separate sub is the best option if you can go that route.

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If absolutely all you've got room for is a pair of slim towers, maybe the DTs work. Their subs are pretty much just small and pretty, and the "subs" in these speakers aren't even as good in some cases. Not their forte. With the right size room a bookshelf and sub can be very effective, but I think in larger rooms a larger tower (not just a tall slim thing with the same 6.5" drivers) has benefits.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
If absolutely all you've got room for is a pair of slim towers, maybe the DTs work. Their subs are pretty much just small and pretty, and the "subs" in these speakers aren't even as good in some cases. Not their forte. With the right size room a bookshelf and sub can be very effective, but I think in larger rooms a larger tower (not just a tall slim thing with the same 6.5" drivers) has benefits.
Now the bookshelf part I agree with completely. A really good bookshelf will save you money and then you can get a sub that will kick butt. Big bookshelf speakers like the SM 65 that I have really full up a room pretty good. There are many others out there though.

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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Very cool application, monitors for an organ!

First of all, no floor-standing speaker in your budget can truly dig down to 20 Hz with any seriousness. You will need subwoofers! The good news is subwoofers can dig down below 20.

If you want to watch movies and use the speakers/subs as a monitoring system, you will need an AVR.

I would get bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer. I wouldn't worry about Martin Logan. Their products are fine but there are lots of good bookshelf speakers. Martin Logan does not build subwoofers that dig down to 20 Hz.

By the way, a 32 foot stop has a fundamental of 16 Hz. If you want 16 Hz playback, that is a tall order, even from a subwoofer. There are some that can do the trick though. I would be looking at the Hsu VTF15h mk2, SVS PC12-Plus, or the Rythmik FVX15. Those can be tuned to 16 Hz or lower. These are large subwoofers though, but a smaller sub will not be able to dig as deep. They are both about $1k. If you can no handle something that large, look at the Hsu VTF-2 mk5, SVS PB-2000 or PC-2000, or Rythmik LVX12, still large subs, they don't dig quite as deep, but they will be able to reach 18 Hz.

A monitoring system will require some neutral speakers. The cheapest neutral speakers I know of are the Philharmonic AA speakers. The speakers from Ascend Acoustics sport a very flat frequency response. I like the speakers from Hsu Research too. There are lots of good choices here. I would set aside at least $300 for a pair of bookshelf speakers. Don't worry about tower speakers, that is just buying bass extension that isn't going to be needed with the inclusion of a subwoofer.

For an AVR, I would be looking at something from Yamaha, Marantz, or Denon in the $400 to $500 range. You don't need anything fancy here.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Now the bookshelf part I agree with completely. A really good bookshelf will save you money and then you can get a sub that will kick butt. Big bookshelf speakers like the SM 65 that I have really full up a room pretty good. There are many others out there though.

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I have some Ascend Sierra-1s bookshelves that do surprisingly well even with their 5.25" mid bass driver, but I always use a sub with them. The larger Sierra tower could be nice, but in my bedroom where I use them, they probably would not have any advantage. I do use towers with 8" drivers in my living room, but still cross them fairly high as my subs are quite capable. Hard to simply generalize about towers without subs vs bookshelves with subs as many do, IMO they both should be supported by subs unless you have some fairly fantastic towers (like maybe the JTR 215RT whose bass performance rivals major subs.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
What about the Golden Ear Triton 2 speakers at about $2500 a pair. They have built-in powered subs which go down to 16 Hz. That is the exact fundamental frequency of the 32 foot pipe.
Those speakers were very well rated in reviews and at least one reviewer considered them as good as speakers costing 4 times as much.
IMO, you shouldn't miss the opportunity to listen to them:
https://www.goldenear.com/images/brochures/GET_T2+_T3+_Literature.pdf
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
What about the Golden Ear Triton 2 speakers at about $2500 a pair. They have built-in powered subs which go down to 16 Hz. That is the exact fundamental frequency of the 32 foot pipe.
Those speakers were very well rated in reviews and at least one reviewer considered them as good as speakers costing 4 times as much.
IMO, you shouldn't miss the opportunity to listen to them:
https://www.goldenear.com/images/brochures/GET_T2+_T3+_Literature.pdf
I have heard the Triton 2s. Very nice speakers, but they will not dig down to 16 Hz or anywhere close to it. Its specs are badly exaggerated.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Exaggerating bass performance doesn't represent a good publicity.

On the other hand, those GE Triton 2s could maybe represent a good purchase for starters. They could be complemented by more capable subwoofers at a later date.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
LOL hardly "subs" in those speakers when they barely get to 30hz even by DT's inaccurate spec (that's probanbly a -10dB point knowing them), let alone the positioning advantage of separate subs.
-10dB is too generous. I think it's more like -20dB on some speakers. :D

It's the same with GoldenEar, B&W, and probably quite a few others.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
-10dB is too generous. I think it's more like -20dB on some speakers. :D

It's the same with GoldenEar, B&W, and probably quite a few others.
Yup Def Tech aren't the only ones doing that.

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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
...IMO they both should be supported by subs unless you have some fairly fantastic towers (like maybe the JTR 215RT...
215 pounds each speaker. :eek:

I'm getting the new RBH SVT tower that are about 200 LBS each, but at least they are modular so each half is only about 100 LBS. :D

Still wish each half is closer to 70 LBS like my current SX-T2/R. :D
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
215 pounds each speaker. :eek:

I'm getting the new RBH SVT tower that are about 200 LBS each, but at least they are modular so each half is only about 100 LBS. :D

Still wish each half is closer to 70 LBS like my current SX-T2/R. :D
Never looked at the weight...but big speakers and subs can be heavy....

ps and would be a lot heavier if they made them from mdf....
 
T

TheWrench

Enthusiast
Wow lots of replies! That's great! I can't believe I forgot room size. It's 14 feet by 28 feet. It's a big room, not worried about floor space, I just wanted them to fit on the organ console and that total size is 54" across and 30" deep where I have room. I have crap speakers that are on the floor to my right but I'd like the sound to either surround me, or be directed at my face, but that said I COULD put them behind me, there's absolutely no issue with space there.

Yes I know organ monitors is an interesting use case but my practice organ at Iowa state is a full pipe organ and I'd like to get close to replicating that sound within reason (I know it will never be exact and won't have the pure power of a 1 million dollar pipe organ)

I was going to temporarily use the preamp built into my Schiit magni 2 uber until I built an amp or bought one (is diy amp's a thing in speakers? I soldered up a bottlehead crack and speedball for a friend and loved it, just couldn't afford it at the time)
I believe the uber has up to like 4-6 watts per 32 ohm but it would only be until I got a proper amp.

Lots of options hmm.... I have the room for floorstanding speakers. Weight isn't an issue, the organ weighs 400 pounds lol, and I got that in the house with only 1 other person using ramps, levers and other tools, I'm sure we can figured out something to get it in haha.

I appreciate all the replies, I'll look more into bowers and rbh svt and the rest you have recommended.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
I've been looking at Martin Logan's, but there's nowhere even close for me to audition them. I also don't know what kind of amp I would need, the organ has I believe a 2.5 watt per 32 ohm preamp inside of it, but that isn't enough to even power my no name speakers that were given to me to get me by, it puts off sound at around 25 decibels at full volume, and I don't think the Logan's come with an amp so that would have to be included in the budget. I'll also use them for movie watching from time to time but their primary use will be essentially monitors for my organ practicing.
$2k or thereabouts is a tight budget for good towers + amp.

The ML Motion 40 and 60 are on the floor in the Magnolia section in most Bestbuy stores. The 60 has the lows that it sounds like you want, but the 40 is a more well rounded speaker imo. The mid/highs just sound cleaner than the 60. The foot print and price of the 40 probably makes more sense space wise as well.

I think they sound good 2.0, but for your purpose add a quality sub to the Motion 40 and you have a great combo imo.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
What about the Golden Ear Triton 2 speakers at about $2500 a pair. They have built-in powered subs which go down to 16 Hz. That is the exact fundamental frequency of the 32 foot pipe.
Those speakers were very well rated in reviews and at least one reviewer considered them as good as speakers costing 4 times as much.
IMO, you shouldn't miss the opportunity to listen to them:
https://www.goldenear.com/images/brochures/GET_T2+_T3+_Literature.pdf
Good suggestion. I've heard the 1, 2+, and 3+...all very nice speakers...imo none of them go as low as the specs say but they do have great bass.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Wow, monitors for a Baldwin church organ are a tall order! Does your organ already have built-in speakers and an amplifier to drive them?

I'd forget Martin Logan speakers. In the price range you have mentioned ~$1500 per pair, ML speakers are only OK. You'd have to go much higher, to roughly $10,000 per pair to get really good MLs :eek:. I am assuming that as a musician, you are interested in good sound and accurate frequency response across the entire music range, not just in the bass frequencies.
I'm not ready to purchase just yet, but I'm weighing my options for a good set of stereo speakers that for sound clarity should go down to at least 30 hz, preferably sub 20 for the 32 foot stop pedal parts that go down to about 13 ish hz if I remember right.
To get speakers that perform well in the octave below 50 Hz, you will probably need floor standing speakers. You can get very good floor standers for under roughly $3,000 a pair that deliver an honest 33 Hz at loud levels, but as you get down to 25 or 20 Hz, it will cost a lot more money. Speakers that produce sound below that are probably best used for movie sound effects, and not music.

For example, Salk Song3 speakers, a 3-way floor stander sells for $3,000 per pair. They can produce sound with a flat frequency response (±3 dB) as low as 33 Hz to 40,000 Hz (well beyond what is audible). You can see the dimensions and weight on the web link. To get down to an honest 25 Hz, there is the Philharmonic 3, selling for $3,500-3,700 per pair (depending on cabinet & finish). At even higher prices is the Song3 Encore, a beefed up version of the Song3, with a larger and more potent woofer and more robust mid range and tweeter, selling for $5,900 per pair. You can see where this is going.

The only bookshelf speaker I can think of that might do the job for you is the BMR Philharmonitor. It claims it goes down to 30 Hz, and sells for as low as $1,350 per pair (depending on cabinet and finish).

All four of these speakers are designed by a concert musician, Dennis Murphy (violin, viola, piano), who also knows a thing or two about building speakers. You should definitely contact him by email to get his thoughts on using any of these speakers as organ monitors. All these speakers were meant for listening to recorded music, not as musical instrument monitors. Also be sure to ask him about speakers with transmission line cabinets, as this is important for good bass response.

You may have noticed how I repeatedly used the word honest to describe low bass response in speakers. Many of the most widely marketed commercial loudspeakers report exaggerated low bass frequency response as well as exaggerated overall loudness levels (speaker sensitivity) because they know many buyers are swayed by such numbers. The Philharmonic Audio and Salk speakers are known for honest, even conservative ratings.

You should also be aware that both makers sell by Internet Direct sales only. There are no distributors, retail stores, or other middle men that elevate the price.

There are other good speakers available, but I am most familiar with these.

All these speakers require a good amplifier, capable of delivering at least 50-100 watts per channel. Wait on choosing an amp until you know what speakers you are getting.
 
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