Total Audio Redo...***forewarning*** long read

[Pogre]

I'm stoked for you! Following your threads has been fun and educational for me. I treat these forums almost like a type of schooling. I've learned so much in less than a year. I learned enough to know I don't know nearly what I thought I did (and still much left to learn) about home audio. With the education I've gotten here I feel a lot more confident about my choices now.

The folks on this forum helped me put together a really nice system, taught me how to set up with Audyssey correctly and how to use a Umik-1 mic to check my fr. Left to my own devices I probably would have put together a decent system, with help from here I put together a great system.

I'll be following your updates and progress reports. If you have any questions about taking Audyssey measurements for your calibration file feel free to ping me. I've taken so many over the last week and I'm in a conversation with a developer right now working out some minor bugs I'm experiencing with the app.

October is a ways away, but you're going to end up with some of the best sounding speakers on the planet, especially in the price range. I'm anxious to hear your impressions. I love my SVS Ultra speakers, but they're not quite the same tier as your Salks.

The wait begins!

 

[2channel lover]

I'm stoked for you! Following your threads has been fun and educational for me. I treat these forums almost like a type of schooling. I've learned so much in less than a year. I learned enough to know I don't know nearly what I thought I did (and still much left to learn) about home audio. With the education I've gotten here I feel a lot more confident about my choices now.

The folks on this forum helped me put together a really nice system, taught me how to set up with Audyssey correctly and how to use a Umik-1 mic to check my fr. Left to my own devices I probably would have put together a decent system, with help from here I put together a great system.

I'll be following your updates and progress reports. If you have any questions about taking Audyssey measurements for your calibration file feel free to ping me. I've taken so many over the last week and I'm in a conversation with a developer right now working out some minor bugs I'm experiencing with the app.

October is a ways away, but you're going to end up with some of the best sounding speakers on the planet, especially in the price range. I'm anxious to hear your impressions. I love my SVS Ultra speakers, but they're not quite the same tier as your Salks.

The wait begins!

Likewise for you...I've been on other audio forums, and have had some good experiences, but nothing like this one. People, specifically people like yourself make the forum and the knowledge and willingness to share here has made my redo experience a fun one.

All I'm doing is documenting my experience with this thread. If someone gains something from it...that's a bonus.

I should have all the surround speakers hooked up at this weekend if Fathers day is not an all day event and run Audyssey Sunday evening....you'll be the 1st person I lean on because I know nothing about room EQ.

Salks...I think we all have different budgets and means but the same goal...great sounding music. With so many people vouching for these speakers I feel like I'm making a good move with the Song3A. But it's definitely out of character for me to buy something I haven't heard before so that is driving my anxiousness as much as anything. I will most certainly share the unveiling and offer my thoughts on the Salks.

 

[Pogre]

Likewise for you...I've been on other audio forums, and have had some good experiences, but nothing like this one. People, specifically people like yourself make the forum and the knowledge and willingness to share here has made my redo experience a fun one.

All I'm doing is documenting my experience with this thread. If someone gains something from it...that's a bonus.

I should have all the surround speakers hooked up at this weekend if Fathers day is not an all day event and run Audyssey Sunday evening....you'll be the 1st person I lean on because I know nothing about room EQ.

Salks...I think we all have different budgets and means but the same goal...great sounding music. With so many people vouching for these speakers I feel like I'm making a good move with the Song3A. But it's definitely out of character for me to buy something I haven't heard before so that is driving my anxiousness as much as anything. I will most certainly share the unveiling and offer my thoughts on the Salks.

Thank you for the kind words! I just picked up a check from my old job that I thought was $300. Turns out there's another zero at the end of it!

I've been thinking about the Monoprice Monolith amp for a while now, but between you and Buck with your Salk Songtowers... I may have to bump one of my threads or start a new one for this...

 

[2channel lover]

Thank you for the kind words! I just picked up a check from my old job that I thought was $300. Turns out there's another zero at the end of it!

I've been thinking about the Monoprice Monolith amp for a while now, but between you and Buck with your Salk Songtowers... I may have to bump one of my threads or start a new one for this...

LOL...the joy of "found money"... most found money I've come across was a $100 bill in jacket pocket. I knew I hadn't spent it but couldn't find it...months later...lo and behold!

That's a serious gain...You already know how I feel about power, but in terms of ROI source and speakers is where I would put the money. I think Swerd can offer you something on the STs...he's upgraded to the Veracity now, but his thread on the Salks was very enlightening to me. Buck should have his soon.

 

[2channel lover]

I've got several months until to Salks are completed. But in the meantime I'm enjoying music. I've connected the surrounds, ceiling atmos, That's what his post is about that...connections.

After reading maybe a half dz articles including threads on this forum on interconnects and speaker wire, my thought is don't buy the cheapest, but damn sure don't buy the most expensive.

Interconnects

LCR...I used GLS Audio XLR 6' connectors to the Outlaw mono blocks...they are color coded making it easy to note what should go where. These are excellent low cost cables. Rubber coated not plastic, well shielded cables. Some people think balanced cables sound better than RCA...I don't buy that, but they are proven to be quieter. If you have long runs, or simply want the quietest connection at a fair price, you can't beat these cables...$40 for the 6 pk.

Surround channels...Fospower RCA cables to the Emo A500 3' to 6'. These are double shielded cables, very reasonable priced via Amazon. The connectors are not the quality of Taversoe, but they have a snug fit and noted to be 24k gold plated to reduce corrosion over time.

Zone 2/3...Emo A800 currently not connected. See notes on source.

Source 1...I had about 6 or 8 monster RCA cables from my ignorant days. I kept them in service and used them to connect the Oppo UHD205 analog section. I actually ran out of RCA cables so I took these from my zone 2/3 amp. I think I will try a set of Bluejeans LC1 cables here for the 5.1 analog connection and move the monsters back to the zone amp. HDMI...SecurOMax 2.0 braided cable.

Source 2...Laptop...connects via wifi pre pro and the Oppo, but also via a USB asynchronous cable to the Oppo for bit perfect, hi res music.

Source 3...Cable box...HDMI...SecurOMax 2.0 braided cable.

Network...both the AV and Oppo are connected via Ethernet.

Subs...Sub #1 Mediabridge Ultra Subwoofer cable 15'...double shielded. $10...Sub #2...Monoprice CL2 rated subwoofer cable...75' $24. Currently I have Sub 1 along the TV wall and Sub 2 positioned behind the main seating with the cable run up the wall over the ceiling and down the TV wall. We'll see what the final positioning will be after running room EQ, but so far I like the positioning where it is and may not move them.

Speakers...all banana connectors except Atmos ceiling and zone 2/3 in ceiling are bare wire on the speaker end.

L/R...Straightwire - Rhythm...(two 8' cables) 12 awg bi-wire capable are connecting the B&W and I will keep these in service for the Salks (will not bi-wire). These speaker cables are 20 yrs old...They would probably be the equivalent of a level 1 straightwire cable today. I got the them with the B&Ws and I I know I didn't pay the rack rate, but I know he didn't throw them in either.

CC & Side Surrounds...Mediabridge 12awg CL2 rated. I bought a two 100' spools ($43 ea) and bought Deadbolt banana connectors ($12) and made own terminations. The surround runs took the same routing as sub 2, had enough left over to wire the Center channel and have roughly 40' left over.

Zone 2/3...Lowes 14AWG CL2 rated...500' spool...3 pr of in ceiling speakers. I think the spool was about $70.


With 5 amps, 12 speakers, 2 subs, you can imagine the back of this set up is a maze of wires...once I have the zone amp reconnected and new cables for the Oppo and the Salks get in, I'll start the organization of these wires and put the final touch on connecting.

 

[Pogre]

I'll bet your system sounds awesome right now. Those B&W's you have are no slouches.

I have all of the monster rca cables I bought almost 20 years ago. I let the salesman talk me right into them "you have such a nice receiver and those B&W speakers. You'll get better sq with Monster brand.". Paraphrased a little, but I think I spent $150-200 on them. I have five or six 3' rca monster cables and one that's about 20' long.

That was before the internet (for me, late adopter) and like I said, not a lot of my friends are really into audio so I bought right into it. An uninformed fool and his money... I still kick myself when I think of how much I spent on them.

My speaker cables are all 14 awg, Home Depot variety now. I replaced it all when I had when we had new carpet installed a few months back. I probably should have gone with 12 awg for the rears, but I thought of it last minute and the Depot doesn't have it.

I am starting to consider going with an atmos setup. Or at least something that involves a few more speakers. I have 4 unused ones sitting around.

 

[2channel lover]

I'll bet your system sounds awesome right now. Those B&W's you have are no slouches.

I have all of the monster rca cables I bought almost 20 years ago. I let the salesman talk me right into them "you have such a nice receiver and those B&W speakers. You'll get better sq with Monster brand.". Paraphrased a little, but I think I spent $150-200 on them. I have five or six 3' rca monster cables and one that's about 20' long.

That was before the internet (for me, late adopter) and like I said, not a lot of my friends are really into audio so I bought right into it. An uninformed fool and his money... I still kick myself when I think of how much I spent on them.

My speaker cables are all 14 awg, Home Depot variety now. I replaced it all when I had when we had new carpet installed a few months back. I probably should have gone with 12 awg for the rears, but I thought of it last minute and the Depot doesn't have it.

I am starting to consider going with an atmos setup. Or at least something that involves a few more speakers. I have 4 unused ones sitting around.

A lot of us were hoodwinked. Monster was on a roll back in the early 90s...probably had the strongest retail distribution of premium priced interconnects...at least we (hopefully) didn't take out a 2nd mortgage for Kimber Kable speaker wire. When I went for the B&W diamond demo, these was a guy in there taking delivery of his 803D3 and a pair those speaker wires...idk what his cost, but those things can run $10k+.

12awg...yeah with such long runs for the surrounds I wanted a little heavier gauge. For the in ceiling, I didn't much care.

My brother in law in Cali is into it as well...kinda, he bought a pair of 600 series B&Ws recently... when he called me to tell me I wanted say man I wish you had called me, but I didn't. Talk about a fool and his money...not literally my other brother in law (local) is pretty smart in general, but ignorant when it comes to hifi...he bought a Bose Lifestyle system for $3k+...I just cringed.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

A lot of us were hoodwinked. Monster was on a roll back in the early 90s...probably had the strongest retail distribution of premium priced interconnects...at least we (hopefully) didn't take out a 2nd mortgage for Kimber Kable speaker wire. When I went for the B&W diamond demo, these was a guy in there taking delivery of his 803D3 and a pair those speaker wires...idk what his cost, but those things can run $10k+.

12awg...yeah with such long runs for the surrounds I wanted a little heavier gauge. For the in ceiling, I didn't much care.

My brother in law in Cali is into it as well...kinda, he bought a pair of 600 series B&Ws recently... when he called me to tell me I wanted say man I wish you had called me, but I didn't. Talk about a fool and his money...not literally my other brother in law (local) is pretty smart in general, but ignorant when it comes to hifi...he bought a Bose Lifestyle system for $3k+...I just cringed.

Many of us have been hit by the monster cable thing. I didn't go too deep. In about 1990, I was shopping in BB for a new system. The guys were working me over pretty hard to buy a bose lifestyle system. I lmao, and bought a pair of cerwin vega D-9's, and waved the big #1 at them. I did end up with a pair of 12ga monster speaker cables with pin conns. Now I just get stinger 12ga from my friend who owns 2 car audio stores. "F" bose and "F" monster too.
Btw 2ch, your setup is coming along very nicely. Good work.

 

[2channel lover]

Many of us have been hit by the monster cable thing. I didn't go too deep. In about 1990, I was shopping in BB for a new system. The guys were working me over pretty hard to buy a bose lifestyle system. I lmao, and bought a pair of cerwin vega D-9's, and waved the big #1 at them. I did end up with a pair of 12ga monster speaker cables with pin conns. Now I just get stinger 12ga from my friend who owns 2 car audio stores. "F" bose and "F" monster too.
Btw 2ch, your setup is coming along very nicely. Good work.

LOL...smart man!

Back in my corp career mid 80s, I was Jr. buyer (Jr. buyers didn't make the far east manufacturing trip) for a national athletic shoe retailer and shortly after for a north east based consumer electronic retailer (Circuit City and BB were our primary competition).

Nike and Bose were two of the best marketing companies in the world in their respective industries. New Balance and Asics made superior running shoes and the hardcore runners knew it, but Nike became a marketing machine and dwarfed both them revenue wise.

Bose made these really expensive speakers you might remember called the 901s...they marketed this sound reflection concept. Made millions off of cheap paper cone drivers...still doing it. Great marketing.

Thanks...by the time the Salks get completed I would have been at the redo about a yr. It's been fun.

 

[2channel lover]

I'll bet your system sounds awesome right now. Those B&W's you have are no slouches.

I am starting to consider going with an atmos setup. Or at least something that involves a few more speakers. I have 4 unused ones sitting around.

IMO it sounds pretty good. One of the local hifi brick and mortar shops has 3 listening rooms...The speakers you want to hear, they bring in and connect them (the electronics varied by room from Integra integrated amps, Rotel to McIntosh...entry, middle, high)

These are the only speakers in the room. This is where I was demoing the the Goldenear (3 different models and Monitor Audio G300)...even in this ideal environment a lot of the speakers I heard were nice, but seemed like a lateral move from my B&Ws...G300s and Revel F208 were superior imo, but they were $6k to $7k a pr. for the mains alone.

Point is the sales guys were saying, to get that next level of detail, and accuracy (beyond my speakers), most of the main speakers would be in the $5k to $9k range...for a 20 yr old speaker, I thought that was a good complement.

We'll see what happens with the Salks...I expect them to be at least as good as the F208 and G300. Jim did say if he sold them thru dealers, for him to make a profit and the dealer to make a profit the speakers would be nearly double the price. That would put the Song3A

I hooked up the Atmos and surrounds over the weekend. I should have some Atmos movie material by this weekend....I do expect to run Audyssey this evening.

 

[KEW]

IMO it sounds pretty good. One of the local hifi brick and mortar shops has 3 listening rooms...The speakers you want to hear, they bring in and connect them (the electronics varied by room from Integra integrated amps, Rotel to McIntosh...entry, middle, high)

These are the only speakers in the room. This is where I was demoing the the Goldenear (3 different models and Monitor Audio G300)...even in this ideal environment a lot of the speakers I heard were nice, but seemed like a lateral move from my B&Ws...G300s and Revel F208 were superior imo, but they were $6k to $7k a pr. for the mains alone.

Point is the sales guys were saying, to get that next level of detail, and accuracy (beyond my speakers), most of the main speakers would be in the $5k to $9k range...for a 20 yr old speaker, I thought that was a good complement.

We'll see what happens with the Salks...I expect them to be at least as good as the F208 and G300. Jim did say if he sold them thru dealers, for him to make a profit and the dealer to make a profit the speakers would be nearly double the price. That would put the Song3A

I hooked up the Atmos and surrounds over the weekend. I should have some Atmos movie material by this weekend....I do expect to run Audyssey this evening.

What are you using for your mains as you are waiting for the Salks?
I'm sure it is in there, but am too lazy to go back and re-read the thread.

 

[2channel lover]

What are you using for your mains as you are waiting for the Salks?
I'm sure it is in there, but am too lazy to go back and re-read the thread.

B&W 804m...they have been in service since Aug '97 coming up on 20 yrs in about a month.

 

[2channel lover]

What are you using for your mains as you are waiting for the Salks?
I'm sure it is in there, but am too lazy to go back and re-read the thread.

Here's most of the set up.

 

[KEW]

Thanks!
I should have remembered those!

 

[2channel lover]

@Pogre

Finally ran audyssey last week.

The changes...it turn my subs down just a tad, change the setting to LFE, made my main speakers large (which cancels the subs for all online content including airplay and Jriver). It also changed some speaker distances.

I didn't know how to run any graphs to do before and after test. Prior to running it the only issue I was having was slight localization from the sub on the front wall. Of course I could always move the sub from behind the seating to the tv wall to balance that out. I will try that, but I like the sub behind as well.

Overall with CDs audyssey did well, I don't like having to change the speaker settings to get sub output from online sources, so I've been playing them 2.0...will look into that this week.

Also I watched movies for the 1st time this weekend. Wife's 1st exposure to the new system...good impression.

Mechanic Resurrection is a 5.1 Dolby Atmos coded blu ray...all around...thumbs up on atmos...this movie doesn't send a ton of content to the atmos speakers but what they do send is effective, realism.

 

[Pogre]

@Pogre

Finally ran audyssey last week.

The changes...it turn my subs down just a tad, change the setting to LFE, made my main speakers large (which cancels the subs for all online content including airplay and Jriver). It also changed some speaker distances.

I didn't know how to run any graphs to do before and after test. Prior to running it the only issue I was having was slight localization from the sub on the front wall. Of course I could always move the sub from behind the seating to the tv wall to balance that out. I will try that, but I like the sub behind as well.

Overall with CDs audyssey did well, I don't like having to change the speaker settings to get sub output from online sources, so I've been playing them 2.0...will look into that this week.

Also I watched movies for the 1st time this weekend. Wife's 1st exposure to the new system...good impression.

Mechanic Resurrection is a 5.1 Dolby Atmos coded blu ray...all around...thumbs up on atmos...this movie doesn't send a ton of content to the atmos speakers but what they do send is effective, realism.

Right on. A couple things tho, Audyssey will almost always set a good speaker to large. It did it with my bookshelf speakers too. I go in and manually set them to small and switch the crossover to 80hz. I run my subs no matter what content I'm playing. Even with full range towers. I guess I need to come to terms with the fact that I'm a bassaholic too...

I bought a Umik mic and dl'd REW. That's how I did before and after measurements. The editor app will show you before and after graphs too.

This one is before and after with my subs.

Very cool the wife appreciates it too. My wife didn't really start appreciating the system until I got the towers. She shocked me by being impressed with them (tho I think it has more to do with their looks). But yeah, having the wife on your side is a biggie.

 

[2channel lover]

Right on. A couple things tho, Audyssey will almost always set a good speaker to large. It did it with my bookshelf speakers too. I go in and manually set them to small and switch the crossover to 80hz. I run my subs no matter what content I'm playing. Even with full range towers. I guess I need to come to terms with the fact that I'm a bassaholic too...

I bought a Umik mic and dl'd REW. That's how I did before and after measurements. The editor app will show you before and after graphs too.

View attachment 21533

This one is before and after with my subs.

Very cool the wife appreciates it too. My wife didn't really start appreciating the system until I got the towers. She shocked me by being impressed with them (tho I think it has more to do with their looks). But yeah, having the wife on your side is a biggie.

Audyssey...yeah I ran the B&Ws 2.0 for a long time, but now that I have the subs, I like the stronger bottom end...I will manually tweak that as well because I have a lot of music on JRiver and Itunes, being able to set a playlist and let it ride for an hour or two song after song that you really like is attractive.

I will soon be turning that laptop into my music server and leaving it with the rest of the equipment.

Wife...although this is accepted as my man cave...definitely is a biggie.

 

[Pogre]

Audyssey...yeah I ran the B&Ws 2.0 for a long time, but now that I have the subs, I like the stronger bottom end...I will manually tweak that as well because I have a lot of music on JRiver and Itunes, being able to set a playlist and let it ride for an hour or two song after song that you really like is attractive.

I will soon be turning that laptop into my music server and leaving it with the rest of the equipment.

Wife...although this is accepted as my man cave...definitely is a biggie.

I forgot to mention that a lot of us give the subs a 3 dB bump after calibration. I do.

 

[2channel lover]

I forgot to mention that a lot of us give the subs a 3 dB bump after calibration. I do.

Noted...I'll look at that this evening.

 

[2channel lover]

@Pogre

I decided to move the sub behind the main seating to the TV to balance that out and as I expected it got rid of my localization issue. It wasn't a big problem, but it was just something that was on my mind. Ran Audyssey again and of course it picked up on the moved sub and adjusted the distance and dB.

I bumped both of them up about 3dB as you suggested...with the B&Ws I prefer crossing over at 60 I said I was going to try it 50, but I haven't done it yet.

Heck, I might just get a 3rd VTF3.5! I did like that positioning behind the seating...I'm mostly kidding, but I can see how people end up with 4 subs.