Receiver Questions

[Audiosaur]

I'm waiting for the mythical Denon/Marantz half off sale that purportedly happens late summer to snap up the 4300. Plenty of power, 9 channel, pre-outs - yum!

 

[Tankman]

I'm waiting for the mythical Denon/Marantz half off sale that purportedly happens late summer to snap up the 4300. Plenty of power, 9 channel, pre-outs - yum!

Smooth man I can dig it.

 

[lovinthehd]

I should have clarified that I currently own a 4k tv, but intend to eventually upgrade to a larger model. I have a large room and sit about 14' from the monitor. If I go 1080p I can probably get a nicer, larger tv that much sooner without breaking the bank.

The build quality is the most attractive thing about the 4520 for me. It's a beast and that price is pretty fantastic for what it is even still. If I understand correctly there could possibly be occasional issues with not having 2.2 and it's a little behind, but still relevant enough? I'm still slavering over it though. I want that amp section.

On the other hand, as you pointed out, The 4200 is more current and no slouch itself. Decisions, decisions. I'm kinda waiting for HD to pop in too. He has one, and he's the one who kicked me down the rabbit hole at the beginning!

Huh? Moi?

Have no idea about 4k really since I don't have any 4k to deal with, one reason I went with the 4520 instead of a newer unit; I'd check the manual and/or check/ask in this official Denon thread.

I did also try two refurbed 4520s, one DOA and the other crapped out in a month, before settling on a new one instead, that was two years ago.

The bench test here https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-4520ci-av-receiver-test-bench

If your only source of 4k is a bluray player does it have dual output so you can route audio thru the 4520 and video direct to tv?

 

[Pogre]

Huh? Moi?

Have no idea about 4k really since I don't have any 4k to deal with, one reason I went with the 4520 instead of a newer unit; I'd check the manual and/or check/ask in this official Denon thread.

I did also try two refurbed 4520s, one DOA and the other crapped out in a month, before settling on a new one instead, that was two years ago.

The bench test here https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-4520ci-av-receiver-test-bench

If your only source of 4k is a bluray player does it have dual output so you can route audio thru the 4520 and video direct to tv?

I got a pretty good response from that thread recommending the 4520. A post in another thread reads:

I see the 2060 on sale @ Joe's AV for $700. They have some sort of time based algorithm for their sale prices so you may see a different one (morning seems to be lowest prices), but I have used them before and while you get nothing in customer service, your order will arrive within 2 weeks. Didn't get the shipping info till the day it arrived, but it arrived!

I think the 4520 is officially too outdated to even be considered an option, if you keep 'future proofing' as one of your requirements. The 2060 has the preouts, HDCP 2.2, and HDR.

Sometimes this hobby just sucks. lol

 

[Pogre]

My only concern as far as future proofing would be along the lines of, I'd hate to rent a Blu Ray (even a 1080p Blu Ray) someday and not be able to watch it. I'm positive there are workarounds, but I'm not familiar with any of them. My Blu Ray player is my Xbox 1S and it has 1 HDMI input and 1 HDMI out. I'll attach a pic of the back of it showing all the connections.

I REALLY like the 4520. From what I gather the build quality is fantastic and this was the flagship receiver for Denon when it was new, but might be just one step away from the modern connectivity I'd like. I still don't know if the 4520 will be able to pass a 4k signal through to the monitor, though I can live with 1080p. 4k is no longer a major requirement for me. I prefer better sound over better picture.

I just don't want to shoot myself in the foot and find I'm not able to watch/listen to protected content.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

According to this review it can pass 4K.
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-4520ci-av-receiver

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

http://downloads.denon.com/documentmaster/us/avr-4520cie3_eng_cd-rom_v01.pdf
Surprised you haven't checked this yet!

 

[Pogre]

According to this review it can pass 4K.
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-4520ci-av-receiver

That's a pretty awesome review. What would you do in my shoes Bill? I think you and I operate on a similar wavelength, you're a lot more educated than I am on this subject.

 

[Pogre]

http://downloads.denon.com/documentmaster/us/avr-4520cie3_eng_cd-rom_v01.pdf
Surprised you haven't checked this yet!

Whatever it is, it's still downloading!

 

[Pogre]

Holy crap. That's one beefy manual!

 

[Pogre]

I don't know for sure what I'm looking for, but found this in the manual:

AVR : Play back through speakers connected to the unit.
TV : Play back through TV connected to the unit.
• The audio signal input from the HDMI input connector can be output as
an output signal from the HDMI output connector by setting the HDMI
audio output destination to TV.
Audio signals input via the Analog/Coaxial/Optical/EXTERNAL.IN input
connectors cannot be output from the HDMI output connector.
• When the HDMI control function is activated, priority is given to the TV
audio setting (vpage 102 “HDMI control function”).

This is what page 102 has to say:

HDMI control function
If you connect the unit and an HDMI control function compatible TV or
player with an HDMI cable and then enable the HDMI control function
setting on each device, the devices will be able to control each other.
n Operations possible by HDMI control
• This unit power off can be linked to the TV power off step.
• You can switch audio output devices with a TV operation.
When you set “Output audio from amp” in the TV audio output
setup operation, you can switch the amp power on.
• You can adjust this unit volume in the TV volume adjustment
operation.
• You can switch this unit input sources through linkage to TV
input switching.
• When playing the player, this unit input source switches to the
source for that player.
• If you switch the input source of the unit to “TV AUDIO”, you
can play TV audio with this unit (vpage 10 “About ARC
(Audio Return Channel) function”).
• When “HDMI Control” (vpage 130) in the menu is set to
“On”, signals input to the HDMI input connector are output to
the television or other device connected to the HDMI output
connector, even if the power of this unit is in standby (pass-
through function).
To use this unit to play the audio of a TV that does not support the ARC
function, connect the TV with an optical-digital or analog connection
(vpage 10).


Setting procedure
1 Set the HDMI output connector corresponding with
the HDMI control function.
Set “HDMI Control” (vpage 130) to “On”.
2 Turn the power on for all the devices connected by
HDMI cable.
3 Set the HDMI control function for all devices
connected by HDMI cable.
• Please consult the operating instructions for the connected devices
to check the settings.
• Carry out steps 2 and 3 should any of the devices be unplugged.
4 Switch the television input to the HDMI input
connected to this unit.
5 Switch this unit input to the HDMI input source and
check if the picture from the player is ok.
6 When you turn the TV’s power to standby, check
that the power of this unit also goes to standby.

* Edit: This is from the review Bill linked. I'm feeling like my questions are being almost answered...

Specs
Power Output: 9 x 150 watts (8 ohms, 2 channels driven)
Auto Setup/Room EQ: Audyssey MultEQ XT32
Video Processing: Analog Devices NatureVue 4K scaling/passthrough
Dimemsions (WxHxD, Inches): 17.1 x 7.66 x 16.64
Weight (Pounds): 36.38
Video Inputs: HDMI 1.4a (6), MHL-enabled HDMI (1), component video (3), composite video (4)
Audio Inputs: Coaxial digital (2), optical digital (2), Denon Link digital (1), 7.1-channel analog (1), stereo analog (7), phono (1)
Additional: USB (2), Ethernet (4), IR remote (in/out), AM (1), FM (1)
Video Outputs: HDMI 1.4a (3), component video (2), composite video (3)
Audio Outputs: Stereo analog (3), 11.2-channel preout (1), ¼-inch headphone (1)
Additional: RS-232 (1), 12-volt trigger (2)

I'm trying to do my homework, but I'm having comprehension issues... I bolded some of the things that jumped out at me, but not quite understanding. I'm still unsure if lack of HDCP 2.2 is going to cause me problems. Will pass-through solve that? What are some of the workarounds to get past this?

This was also suggested to me as well. It ticks off a lot of boxes, but MultEQ XT32 is tough to ignore vs YPAO.

 

[Tankman]

I don't know for sure what I'm looking for, but found this in the manual:

AVR : Play back through speakers connected to the unit.
TV : Play back through TV connected to the unit.
• The audio signal input from the HDMI input connector can be output as
an output signal from the HDMI output connector by setting the HDMI
audio output destination to TV.
Audio signals input via the Analog/Coaxial/Optical/EXTERNAL.IN input
connectors cannot be output from the HDMI output connector.
• When the HDMI control function is activated, priority is given to the TV
audio setting (vpage 102 “HDMI control function”).

This is what page 102 has to say:

HDMI control function
If you connect the unit and an HDMI control function compatible TV or
player with an HDMI cable and then enable the HDMI control function
setting on each device, the devices will be able to control each other.
n Operations possible by HDMI control
• This unit power off can be linked to the TV power off step.
• You can switch audio output devices with a TV operation.
When you set “Output audio from amp” in the TV audio output
setup operation, you can switch the amp power on.
• You can adjust this unit volume in the TV volume adjustment
operation.
• You can switch this unit input sources through linkage to TV
input switching.
• When playing the player, this unit input source switches to the
source for that player.
• If you switch the input source of the unit to “TV AUDIO”, you
can play TV audio with this unit (vpage 10 “About ARC
(Audio Return Channel) function”).
• When “HDMI Control” (vpage 130) in the menu is set to
“On”, signals input to the HDMI input connector are output to
the television or other device connected to the HDMI output
connector, even if the power of this unit is in standby (pass-
through function).
To use this unit to play the audio of a TV that does not support the ARC
function, connect the TV with an optical-digital or analog connection
(vpage 10).


Setting procedure
1 Set the HDMI output connector corresponding with
the HDMI control function.
Set “HDMI Control” (vpage 130) to “On”.
2 Turn the power on for all the devices connected by
HDMI cable.
3 Set the HDMI control function for all devices
connected by HDMI cable.
• Please consult the operating instructions for the connected devices
to check the settings.
• Carry out steps 2 and 3 should any of the devices be unplugged.
4 Switch the television input to the HDMI input
connected to this unit.
5 Switch this unit input to the HDMI input source and
check if the picture from the player is ok.
6 When you turn the TV’s power to standby, check
that the power of this unit also goes to standby.

* Edit: This is from the review Bill linked. I'm feeling like my questions are being almost answered...

Specs
Power Output: 9 x 150 watts (8 ohms, 2 channels driven)
Auto Setup/Room EQ: Audyssey MultEQ XT32
Video Processing: Analog Devices NatureVue 4K scaling/passthrough
Dimemsions (WxHxD, Inches): 17.1 x 7.66 x 16.64
Weight (Pounds): 36.38
Video Inputs: HDMI 1.4a (6), MHL-enabled HDMI (1), component video (3), composite video (4)
Audio Inputs: Coaxial digital (2), optical digital (2), Denon Link digital (1), 7.1-channel analog (1), stereo analog (7), phono (1)
Additional: USB (2), Ethernet (4), IR remote (in/out), AM (1), FM (1)
Video Outputs: HDMI 1.4a (3), component video (2), composite video (3)
Audio Outputs: Stereo analog (3), 11.2-channel preout (1), ¼-inch headphone (1)
Additional: RS-232 (1), 12-volt trigger (2)

I'm trying to do my homework, but I'm having comprehension issues... I bolded some of the things that jumped out at me, but not quite understanding. I'm still unsure if lack of HDCP 2.2 is going to cause me problems. Will pass-through solve that? What are some of the workarounds to get past this?

This was also suggested to me as well. It ticks off a lot of boxes, but MultEQ XT32 is tough to ignore vs YPAO.

The 4520 will do a pass through for 4K. But your right it doesn't have HDCP 2.2, or 2.0a, I do see your point with using a Blu ray player cause if you decide to get a Blu-ray 4K player the 4520 wouldn't be compatible with the AVR as far as the video processing goes. Now as for Audyssey XT32, some like it some don't, I have used Audyssey on my NR818 and it did a very nice job blending the levels on my two subs. Don't have that unit anymore what I am running now is a TX-NR656 which it doesn't have Audyssey, But than I never was very much into the whole autocalibration thing. I just let the unit do what it does best than tweak the ft, speaker levels and set the crossovers the way I like em....

 

[Pogre]

The 4520 will do a pass through for 4K. But your right it doesn't have HDCP 2.2, or 2.0a, I do see your point with using a Blu ray player cause if you decide to get a Blu-ray 4K player the 4520 wouldn't be compatible with the AVR as far as the video processing goes. Now as for Audyssey XT32, some like it some don't, I have used Audyssey on my NR818 and it did a very nice job blending the levels on my two subs. Don't have that unit anymore what I am running now is a TX-NR656 which it doesn't have Audyssey, But than I never was very much into the whole autocalibration thing. I just let the unit do what it does best than tweak the ft, speaker levels and set the crossovers the way I like em....

I hear you. At this point I'm willing to forego 4k for better quality. Would it be able to pass a 1080p Blu Ray, or will DRM still be an issue?

I currently have Audyssey MultEQ XT (Denon AVR X1200W) and really like what it does for my room calibration. I've never had an opportunity to test XT32, but based on what I've experienced I'm anticipating good things. I'm a fan of room calibration and Audyssey Dynamic eq. I never run pure direct for anything unless I'm just goofing around flipping back and forth between that and Audyssey just to remind myself that I like the eq'd sound better.

*Edit: I do have optical out, Ĺ/R outputs and component outs on my tv. Is there some I can do with any of those?

 

[Tankman]

I hear you. At this point I'm willing to forego 4k for better quality. Would it be able to pass a 1080p Blu Ray, or will DRM still be an issue?

I currently have Audyssey MultEQ XT (Denon AVR X1200W) and really like what it does for my room calibration. I've never had an opportunity to test XT32, but based on what I've experienced I'm anticipating good things. I'm a fan of room calibration and Audyssey Dynamic eq. I never run pure direct for anything unless I'm just goofing around flipping back and forth between that and Audyssey just to remind myself that I like the eq'd sound better.

*Edit: I do have optical out, Ĺ/R outputs and component outs on my tv. Is there some I can do with any of those?

I to like to EQ, my sound I never was a "tone flat" guy. I use the tone controls, and the EQ settings for the sub, and L/R mains only. Not to much I'll bump the low-end curve around the, 63hz to umm, 250hz just to give the mid bass a kick. Is it coloring the sound? sure it is, but I never was a audiophile elitist so to speak, where I just have to have to sound as pure as they recorded it I leave that to the high-end dudes with their 50g speakers and 10 g amps..but hey, we need them dudes cause when they buy all that very high end gear, like Pass, Krell, Moon and so on some of the technology gets passed on to guys like us after they pay all the Engineers and they made all their money back from them hi and dudes...lol..but back to your question about the 4520 lacking the video processing 2.2. Thats a tough one, cause the 4520 is a sweet deal for the price, no doubt it will drive front mains nicely, and do video for 1080 blu ray. Them chumps already talking about 8K HDTV'S so even whats out now will be outdated in 2 or 3 years. I tried 4K wasn't to impressed, but at the time the only 4K moves I could use to see any difference was on Netflix and it was on a up convert to near 4K. Was the video sharper? yep, did it blow me away? nope, so I returned the 4K for a full refund and got a 65" for less bucks. 1080p, full array back lit 120hz, 240 motion good enough for me. Maybe look into the Yammy 2050? I like Denon, I like Yammys and Onkyos, and Marantz units, hell if I wasn't in this Apt, a Nad pre pro and a nice 7 channel amp would be in my audio rack. Notice I didn't mention Sony units? or Harman Kardon? they seem to have missed the boat lately not knocking those units just feel there not what they use to be. I would go with a Pioneer Elite before Sony or Harman Kardon.

 

[Tankman]

@Pogre, I went back to look at that 4520, the build its on the same line as Yammys build the Yammys just don't have XT32 they have their own processing. Guess they don't want to pay for the fees Audyssey. You can work around the video thing with the 4520 but since you do have a 4K, if it was me? I would want 2.2, 2.0a and Atoms and DTS X. I heard my Son's Atoms set-up and to me, yeah it's worth extra speakers. I will add front Heights and move up to 7.1 come Oct. After all, I don't fish, don't ride Harley-Davidson bikes, or spend all my money on hot women and hotrod cars. So a few g's on a nice system with the hobby I love isn't to much to for go. After all I don't want to be on my deathbed going...aww man! wish I would have gotten dem Polk LSIM 707 speakers and dat Parasound 3 channel amp...

 

[Tankman]

I'm waiting for the mythical Denon/Marantz half off sale that purportedly happens late summer to snap up the 4300. Plenty of power, 9 channel, pre-outs - yum!

Hey, Bro, sorry about the thumbs down thing I corrected it to up. I must have hit it wrong, using my cell phone and I got big thumbs. I luv 1/2 off sales with this hobby!..

 

[Pogre]

@Pogre, I went back to look at that 4520, the build its on the same line as Yammys build the Yammys just don't have XT32 they have their own processing. Guess they don't want to pay for the fees Audyssey. You can work around the video thing with the 4520 but since you do have a 4K, if it was me? I would want 2.2, 2.0a and Atoms and DTS X. I heard my Son's Atoms set-up and to me, yeah it's worth extra speakers. I will add front Heights and move up to 7.1 come Oct. After all, I don't fish, don't ride Harley-Davidson bikes, or spend all my money on hot women and hotrod cars. So a few g's on a nice system with the hobby I love isn't to much to for go. After all I don't want to be on my deathbed going...aww man! wish I would have gotten dem Polk LSIM 707 speakers and dat Parasound 3 channel amp...

Heh. That's exactly how I justify my stuff too!

I've always been music first, video second so there are some concessions I'm willing to make for better quality audio. I listen to more music in stereo than watch stuff with surround. The bare minimum as far as concessions would be 1080p though (also lIke the idea of getting a nicer tv on the cheap with 1080p when I upgrade). The only way I'd go atmos is with in ceiling speakers and I'm not motivated enough to cut holes and install them so I don't see me doing it and I'm definitely not paying someone else to do it.

XT32... Now there's a sticking point. I really want it for sub calibration and my understanding of YPAO is that it won't calibrate lower frequencies. Where does it cut off? Everything else about the yammy is a total win for me. Damn you 4520 for being just barely outdated!

What kind of workarounds are available to get around HDCP 2.2 If I do decide to pull the trigger on the 4520? Would the 2050 be a wiser choice with it's build quality, contemporary features, etc? Would the X4200 be a step down from either of those 2 as far as parts, build quality, reliability, etc? I could go with the 2050 and get a MiniDSP and mic, but that adds to my cost for the yammy in the neighborhood of around 280 bones.

Hey, Bro, sorry about the thumbs down thing I corrected it to up. I must have hit it wrong, using my cell phone and I got big thumbs. I luv 1/2 off sales with this hobby!..

It didn't even hit my radar. No harm, no foul. If I had a dollar for every time I hit the wrong button trying to like or agree with something and had to correct it I'd already have me a new receiver!

 

[lovinthehd]

I suspect there would be DRM issues on the 4k passthru. I'm not sure, though; fwiw the HDMI control thing is about ARC use. While the 4520 is a nice avr, if I had a 4k tv and your player I'd be looking at the 4300 refurb, maybe the 4200 (but I like the additional control the 4300 has with the Audyssey app for curve manipulation). I think XT32/SubEQ was a worthy upgrade over XT (and the previously mentioned Onkyo 818 lacked the SubEQ feature, so no separate level/delay manipulation for a second sub), but I would really like to have the options the x300 series has with the app....

 

[Pogre]

I suspect there would be DRM issues on the 4k passthru. I'm not sure, though; fwiw the HDMI control thing is about ARC use. While the 4520 is a nice avr, if I had a 4k tv and your player I'd be looking at the 4300 refurb, maybe the 4200 (but I like the additional control the 4300 has with the Audyssey app for curve manipulation). I think XT32/SubEQ was a worthy upgrade over XT (and the previously mentioned Onkyo 818 lacked the SubEQ feature, so no separate level/delay manipulation for a second sub), but I would really like to have the options the x300 series has with the app....

Man, I agree with you about the 4300 100%. I'd love to have the app to play with but I'm stretching it at $800. Anything more than that will be a strain, and this is all me, I just can't justify another $300 for it. I'm leaning more toward the 4200 now. It'll be a lot simpler, it'll still give me a coulpe more db of headroom, no worries about DRM and I already have a 4K tv (proofreading this last sentence makes it an even more compelling option in my head, where it counts ). I am buying a receiver with preouts for a reason too. I can always add an amp. The ones from monoprice look very nice...

 

[Tankman]

Heh. That's exactly how I justify my stuff too!

I've always been music first, video second so there are some concessions I'm willing to make for better quality audio. I listen to more music in stereo than watch stuff with surround. The bare minimum as far as concessions would be 1080p though (also lIke the idea of getting a nicer tv on the cheap with 1080p when I upgrade). The only way I'd go atmos is with in ceiling speakers and I'm not motivated enough to cut holes and install them so I don't see me doing it and I'm definitely not paying someone else to do it.

XT32... Now there's a sticking point. I really want it for sub calibration and my understanding of YPAO is that it won't calibrate lower frequencies. Where does it cut off? Everything else about the yammy is a total win for me. Damn you 4520 for being just barely outdated!

What kind of workarounds are available to get around HDCP 2.2 If I do decide to pull the trigger on the 4520? Would the 2050 be a wiser choice with it's build quality, contemporary features, etc? Would the X4200 be a step down from either of those 2 as far as parts, build quality, reliability, etc? I could go with the 2050 and get a MiniDSP and mic, but that adds to my cost for the yammy in the neighborhood of around 280 bones.

It didn't even hit my radar. No harm, no foul. If I had a dollar for every time I hit the wrong button trying to like or agree with something and had to correct it I'd already have me a new receiver!

I believe the 4200 surely is a step up from what your running now. 125 x 2 into 8 ohms, plus it has all the latest processing formats. It offers more headroom, preouts, comes in at just under 28lbs, tells me it's got a beefy power supply, the capacitors should be decent size and it does come with a 3 year warranty, for just under 8 bills seems to be a good deal. As for the Yammy 2050 it comes in at just under 1 g, but no Audyssey but offers 140 × 2, all the current format processing. Yammy 200 more and you like Denon. 799 for the 4200 with all the latest processing format and Audyssey TX32 preout...or like what lovinthehd, recommended the 4300 refurb is a good catch to. To stay with your budget of 8 bills seems like the 4200 or the 4300 fits the bill. Come Oct, I just may get the Yammy a1050 that's the unit my Son has and he is running it in a 9.2 set-up but he also has EMO amps to, but he has a Big living room. Me? I Small Change Leroy! I sure ain't big money grip! Think I will just go with the Yammy a1050 and upgrade my L/R mains and no 7.1 with height speakers. Man right now Polks running 1/2 off on their whole LSIM speakers the 705's are on my short list but sale ends this month dam da bad luck..